An honest question for women ...

[Mathematician]

I think both sexes are 'objectified' so to speak. By the way, I find use of this phrase rather irksome as first instinct is to value a potential mate by appearance. Yes, when this becomes the sole consideration one is willing to take into account, that's a problem, but I see that single-mindedness just as much in the "handsome stud, dumb as dolts" stereotype as "attractive bimbo" one. Women probably are more empowered by their sexuality (and conversely, chained to it, degraded by it - and no, not all the fault of men), but I don't think the disparity is that significant and it continues to lessen.

The current gender binary has a lot of ugly consequences for both men and women, and the desire to appear attractive just to snag the attention of an attractive mate is a shared one. One of my main complaints about the historic feminist movement is its inability (or unwillingness) to reach out to sympathetic men. "All men are rapists, pigs,... etc." Yeah, that's gonna change men's opinion. Hyperboles and hurtful remarks like that are just as degrading as misogynistic comments.

Addendum: and I'm a radical socialist, not a conservative family-values voter.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Madhuri,

The only men I meet who seem genuinely respectful and serious and somewhat trustworthy are at least twice my age.

Age!! just a mental barrier!

Love & rgds

 

[Madhuri]

Friend Madhuri,


Age!! just a mental barrier!

Love & rgds

Haha, yes, but one I have trouble overcoming.

 

[Father Heathen]

Men are just a disappointment.

Are you sure you're not just hanging out with the wrong crowd? This sort of remark rubs me the wrong way because there are plenty of decent guys out there.
When every guy a girl dates tends to be a disrespectful, objectifying scumbag, it probably says more about her own taste and standards than it does about the male sex.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Madhuri,

This is exactly where yoga comes in; meaning on the path of yog if you wish to connect you need to go to the extreme point and only on reaching the extreme point does transcendence happens. The other way is through understanding that one can transcend the point and slowly the mind itself and be liberated.

Love & rgds

 

[Chisti]

Are you sure you're not just hanging out with the wrong crowd? This sort of remark rubs me the wrong way because there are plenty of decent guys out there.
When every guy a girl dates tends to be a disrespectful, objectifying scumbag, it probably says more about her own taste and standards than it does about the male sex.

At some point, we'll have to generalize. Men want sex, whereas women want security. That's how both genders have evolved.

 

[Father Heathen]

At some point, we'll have to generalize. Men want sex, whereas women want security. That's how both genders have evolved.

Can I generalize that Indians/Pakistanis evolved to drive taxis?
But really, sure male and females have their biological differences that influence their behavior, but it's not a cause or justification for men to mistreat women, nor is it a typical behavior in men. It's a sociological/psychological issue, and with a good judge of character those sort of men can easily be avoided. There are plenty of honest, mature men who conduct themselves with respect and honor.

 

[Madhuri]

Are you sure you're not just hanging out with the wrong crowd? This sort of remark rubs me the wrong way because there are plenty of decent guys out there.
When every guy a girl dates tends to be a disrespectful, objectifying scumbag, it probably says more about her own taste and standards than it does about the male sex.

I'm not dating anyone. I haven't had a real date since last November because I haven't met anyone worth going out with (with maybe one exception, but I had another reason for rejecting him).

Well, I live in a beach town. All the guys are hot surfy dudes. Very up themselves. I also do Latin Dancing. A lot of the men there are just looking for sex and the others who are looking for relationships are like 40+. I've met some really nice guys around too, but most of them are about 35 + and that's just too old for me.

What crowd should I look in? The library? A nursing home maybe?

ETA: When I move to the city, I'm going to try and meet people with similar interests like vegetarian groups, meditation groups, the temple etc. I find people in those circles tend to be fairly decent.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm not dating anyone. I haven't had a real date since last November because I haven't met anyone worth going out with (with maybe one exception, but I had another reason for rejecting him).

Well, I live in a beach town. All the guys are hot surfy dudes. Very up themselves. I also do Latin Dancing. A lot of the men there are just looking for sex and the others who are looking for relationships are like 40+. I've met some really nice guys around too, but most of them are about 35 + and that's just too old for me.

What crowd should I look in? The library? A nursing home maybe?

ETA: When I move to the city, I'm going to try and meet people with similar interests like vegetarian groups, meditation groups, the temple etc. I find people in those circles tend to be fairly decent.

Okay, fair enough. My response was probably a little too knee-jerk. Just don't judge an entire sex based on some small demographic of pretentious narcissists.

 

[Madhuri]

Okay, fair enough. My response was probably a little too knee-jerk. Just don't judge an entire sex based on some small demographic of pretentious narcissists.

I know there are decent men out there, it's just really hard to find them. And most are already taken. It would be nice if the majority of men were romantic and faithful, but unfortunately, the sexual nature of men and women are very conflicting and our society encourages the desires of men to an extreme.

 

[Willamena]

... especially women who complain that they're being sexually objectified. Would you mind if a good-looking person were to objectify you? Are you offended only when ugly people do that?

Just an honest question.

Well, there aren't any ugly people, so no, it's not just ugly people. I mind when anyone does it, even women.

 

[Father Heathen]

I know there are decent men out there, it's just really hard to find them. And most are already taken. It would be nice if the majority of men were romantic and faithful, but unfortunately, the sexual nature of men and women are very conflicting and our society encourages the desires of men to an extreme.

Surely Australia can't be that uncultured?

 

[Madhuri]

Surely Australia can't be that uncultured?

I experienced similar in America and in Italy. Especially Italy.

PS: I don't put myself out there in a provocative manner, btw. My opinion is based largely on observation.

 

[horizon_mj1]

Being objectified by anyone, no matter what they look like or what societal position they have, is very offensive, more so if actions are included with words. I am now married to a gentleman who treats me with respect, but I have known several men who believed there was no other way to treat a woman besides objectifying them (including my ex-husband). I agree that some women by provocative dressing not only objectify themselves, but this has become a societal norm. When women make it ok for themselves to be viewed as "sexual" objects, it poses extreme difficulties in getting the point across that a bit of respect is more appropriate. When was the last time you were able to turn the tv on, watch it for 1 hour and not see at least a commercial where a woman has very little clothing on (everything from makeup commercials to web site commercials are guilty). This being shown as being a norm, not only are women dis-allowing much room to be seen as something other than objects. This to me is more offensive. (Most) men are just doing what (most) women "show" is ok to do. I find this a problem not only for adults, but what about young ladies who are being shown on a daily basis it is ok to dress scantily and use sex as a leverage. I mean, let's get real; there are tv shows directed toward teenagers glorifying sex, scandal and even pregnancy; granted not all show encouragement toward these acts, but several do. What does the word moral mean to this nation and why are we allowing our kids to be raised with improper idealisms?

 

[Madhuri]

A big problem is that a most girls and a lot of women aren't truly aware of the male sexual psychology. We dress to attract, but for a lot of us, we're trying to attract real admiration and special attention-->affection--> love. We don't realise, most of the time, that we're going about it the wrong way (but what is the right way?).

 

[horizon_mj1]

A big problem is that a most girls and a lot of women aren't truly aware of the male sexual psychology. We dress to attract, but for a lot of us, we're trying to attract real admiration and special attention-->affection--> love. We don't realise, most of the time, that we're going about it the wrong way (but what is the right way?).

Well IMO, the wrong way would be how it is portrayed on most tv shows. There is nothing wrong with wearing makeup, dressing nice (nice means un-offensive to others, including yourself), doing your nails and hair, etc. The most important thing when meeting men is not letting your guard down and seeing the person for who they are and how they will treat you if a relationship is established. Not getting into a relationship in which you become objectified is so very important, due to these types of relationships often turning toward abuse.

 

[idea]

... especially women who complain that they're being sexually objectified. Would you mind if a good-looking person were to objectify you? Are you offended only when ugly people do that?

Just an honest question.

It has nothing to do with how good looking the person is - it has to do with wanting everyone to recognize that value comes from what is within, not from without.

Being offended is a tool to try and tell the other person not to be so superficial... yes, you can tell some things about a person by their looks - self-control issues, posture, cleanliness issues, which style they have chosen to attire themselves in - professional/laid back/confident respect for oneself vs. insecure/desperate (immodest), etc. etc. etc. so yes, there are things about a person's outward looks which reveal some of what lies within - but things like breast size, height, natural hair color - those outward attributes which in no way reveal character are pointless to assess because it does not reveal any inward realities.

 

[Starsoul]

Being objectified by anyone, no matter what they look like or what societal position they have, is very offensive, more so if actions are included with words. I am now married to a gentleman who treats me with respect, but I have known several men who believed there was no other way to treat a woman besides objectifying them (including my ex-husband). I agree that some women by provocative dressing not only objectify themselves, but this has become a societal norm. When women make it ok for themselves to be viewed as "sexual" objects, it poses extreme difficulties in getting the point across that a bit of respect is more appropriate. When was the last time you were able to turn the tv on, watch it for 1 hour and not see at least a commercial where a woman has very little clothing on (everything from makeup commercials to web site commercials are guilty). This being shown as being a norm, not only are women dis-allowing much room to be seen as something other than objects. This to me is more offensive. (Most) men are just doing what (most) women "show" is ok to do. I find this a problem not only for adults, but what about young ladies who are being shown on a daily basis it is ok to dress scantily and use sex as a leverage. I mean, let's get real; there are tv shows directed toward teenagers glorifying sex, scandal and even pregnancy; granted not all show encouragement toward these acts, but several do. What does the word moral mean to this nation and why are we allowing our kids to be raised with improper idealisms?

couldn't agree more. Where would morals comes from when all that is being taught to the societies all over the world is to secure oneself financially so that one could have an X lifestyle , Y number of women, Z length of a happy lifetime, basically where you work like a jack to earn the money, and give the money back to the system to buy you all the expensive stuff, why would morals creep into all of it? Why would people fear their actions, sense of morals when they are basically being taught to fear nothing? Emotional trauma is a crime no-one pays you back for, and its sad to see more women and men suffer through it and yet incapable of preventing it.

 

[Chisti]

Can I generalize that Indians/Pakistanis evolved to drive taxis?

Gender is a biological fact. Labels like Indians/Pakistanis aren't; they're social constructs invented for our convenience. So your comparison wouldn't apply here.

 

[Penumbra]

... especially women who complain that they're being sexually objectified. Would you mind if a good-looking person were to objectify you? Are you offended only when ugly people do that?

Just an honest question.

Well, I don't recall ever complaining about being sexually objectified, but I don't view it as a good thing either.

Usually I'm either amused by, or dismissive of, men that objectify women. There are good men out there so one need not concern their self with the shallower variety.

It depends to a certain extent on context. Guys are pretty visual creatures, so I give some of them a little bit of leeway as long as they are genuinely good people. Guys are more prone to objectify when they think the woman isn't listening, or when they are with guy friends and end up talking about women (again, when they think women aren't listening). I overheard some guys at my work talking about me in an objectifying way when I was new, and was mostly just amused and a little bit disappointed by it, but they are generally decent guys so we're all friendly. I kind of made fun of them about it later, and they were embarrassed when they found out I heard them.

I am more disappointed with the nature of human males than offended by it.
I am offended though, when a guy puts on the act, thinking I'm stupid enough to actually believe he thinks I'm special when it's as clear as day that he just wants sex.

Men are just a disappointment. I wish I was a lesbian.

They're not all that bad.

There are some really great guys out there and I'm sure you'll find one.