An Open Letter to RF

[MysticSang'ha]

If the things we want to hear...
Could take us where we want to go...
We'd already be there.

Like right now. With you....I'm sure this is not what you want to hear:

Your posts are not helping. Respect DS's wishes and discontinue your rhetoric claiming "fantasy victim" directed at him.

And lest you think I was born yesterday, too, I'm a survivor of depression, suicidal tendencies, suicide attempts, rape, assault/battery....and I'm a successful business owner, married, with four grown children and three grandchildren.

I can tell you that your tactics right now are not only not helping, they are detrimental in this thread.

 

[Debater Slayer]

You seem to lack not just understanding but empathy as well. You're so obsessed about atheists that you obviously don't care to understand the situation. When even theists who don't particularly care for atheism call your BS you still continue like an automaton.


You seem to be more than willing to engage in yours and create more strife where you go.

He can't post in this thread anymore. Let's leave his posts alone and not give them any more attention.

 

[sun rise]

...
I'm a survivor of depression, suicidal tendencies, suicide attempts, rape, assault/battery....and I'm a successful business owner, married, with four grown children and three grandchildren.
...

Maybe you already did this upstream, but I wonder if it would help if you described how you survived your depression and suicidal tendencies?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Maybe you already did this upstream, but I wonder if it would help if you described how you survived your depression and suicidal tendencies?

I haven't done this typically in the open forums. I battle on occasion unresolved triggering episodes from PTSD, but they are far more manageable now than they were 25 years ago. I began talking about killing myself when I was 6. It highly upset my teachers who didn't see my behavior back then as typical whiny-bratty little girl not getting her way. When I began asking about how people can die and what is the least painful or the quickest, that was when schools began involving my parents.

My mother was the most involved throughout my childhood and my adolescence. However, I began cutting at 13 as an effort to mentally prepare for the final act, but also as a coping mechanism to being in control of pain and healing, rather than feeling uncontrollable pain and loneliness all around me.

She was unaware - or at least I thought - of my orientation and how monstrous I felt. I did not know bisexuality existed back then, and I simply thought I was defective as a human being and worse as a Catholic Christian.

I was "born again" at 17 after I left home and wanted a new life far far away from my family. Prayed constantly under a new Christian identity banner to be at peace and to be healed of my attraction toward women. Kept failing miserably. My suicidal desires peaked at that point and I was cutting daily. I attempted cutting my wrists and going to sleep in bed hoping I would die quietly. After many attempts of superficial cutting and not knowing (perhaps thankfully) exactly where to slice for major arteries and bleed-outs, I visited a friends house and was shown a gun. I locked myself in that room after they left and sat down while hearing them outside wondering what I was doing in the room, knocking, asking what was wrong. I put the gun in my mouth ready to pull the trigger, fully ready to die. I don't even know if it was loaded properly, or anything much about gun safety at 19. All I knew was this was going to be certain, quick, and (hopefully) painless.

I guess something changed then at that moment of truth, when everything stemmed from seeing myself as a monstrosity or a failure. I guess my death wish changed from taking myself out alone in a room, to dying in a blaze of fire throwing my middle finger up to the world. I had always preferred a flair for the dramatic, so I stopped seeing myself as a monster, saw the church as the real monster, and left the room, my friends and the church.

But my loneliness was still paramount. My fears remained of being "outed". I began dating women privately and discreetly. I also stopped believing in Christianity.

What helped over the course of many many years was trial and error in therapists, learning more about weapons and safety and effectiveness as well as self-defense tactics, finding new communities of like-minded people who knew exactly what I was going through, reading and reading and reading some more about sex and sexuality to understand myself and others, meditation for better awareness skills in myself and in my surroundings, and keeping my matryr complex alive and well...that if I was to die for being a monster, it's better to be a storyline for the public instead of being invisible. I'm not perfect, and I have many flaws (that complex being one of them, and for having a sharp tongue and the willingness to hurt bullies badly). But it's kept me alive so far.

Every now and then, meds nudge the process along when necessary. But the meds need to be the correct dosage and for the correct diagnosis. That is another trial and error process that continues to this day.

I don't know how helpful this is to DS. His situation is different than mine and always has been. I don't claim I have the answers, though this is what has been helpful for me and my life. I only have my own baggage to carry. And I hope he knows that my thoughts are always with him.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I haven't done this typically in the open forums. I battle on occasion unresolved triggering episodes from PTSD, but they are far more manageable now than they were 25 years ago. I began talking about killing myself when I was 6. It highly upset my teachers who didn't see my behavior back then as typical whiny-bratty little girl not getting her way. When I began asking about how people can die and what is the least painful or the quickest, that was when schools began involving my parents.

My mother was the most involved throughout my childhood and my adolescence. However, I began cutting at 13 as an effort to mentally prepare for the final act, but also as a coping mechanism to being in control of pain and healing, rather than feeling uncontrollable pain and loneliness all around me.

She was unaware - or at least I thought - of my orientation and how monstrous I felt. I did not know bisexuality existed back then, and I simply thought I was defective as a human being and worse as a Catholic Christian.

I was "born again" at 17 after I left home and wanted a new life far far away from my family. Prayed constantly under a new Christian identity banner to be at peace and to be healed of my attraction toward women. Kept failing miserably. My suicidal desires peaked at that point and I was cutting daily. I attempted cutting my wrists and going to sleep in bed hoping I would die quietly. After many attempts of superficial cutting and not knowing (perhaps thankfully) exactly where to slice for major arteries and bleed-outs, I visited a friends house and was shown a gun. I locked myself in that room after they left and sat down while hearing them outside wondering what I was doing in the room, knocking, asking what was wrong. I put the gun in my mouth ready to pull the trigger, fully ready to die. I don't even know if it was loaded properly, or anything much about gun safety at 19. All I knew was this was going to be certain, quick, and (hopefully) painless.

I guess something changed then at that moment of truth, when everything stemmed from seeing myself as a monstrosity or a failure. I guess my death wish changed from taking myself out alone in a room, to dying in a blaze of fire throwing my middle finger up to the world. I had always preferred a flair for the dramatic, so I stopped seeing myself as a monster, saw the church as the real monster, and left the room, my friends and the church.

But my loneliness was still paramount. My fears remained of being "outed". I began dating women privately and discreetly. I also stopped believing in Christianity.

What helped over the course of many many years was trial and error in therapists, learning more about weapons and safety and effectiveness as well as self-defense tactics, finding new communities of like-minded people who knew exactly what I was going through, reading and reading and reading some more about sex and sexuality to understand myself and others, meditation for better awareness skills in myself and in my surroundings, and keeping my matryr complex alive and well...that if I was to die for being a monster, it's better to be a storyline for the public instead of being invisible. I'm not perfect, and I have many flaws (that complex being one of them, and for having a sharp tongue and the willingness to hurt bullies badly). But it's kept me alive so far.

Every now and then, meds nudge the process along when necessary. But the meds need to be the correct dosage and for the correct diagnosis. That is another trial and error process that continues to this day.

I don't know how helpful this is to DS. His situation is different than mine and always has been. I don't claim I have the answers, though this is what has been helpful for me and my life. I only have my own baggage to carry. And I hope he knows that my thoughts are always with him.

Thanks. You mean so much to me that I can't describe it in words. I'm glad you got rid of religion, too. It becomes a disease when it induces self-loathing and needless guilt like that.

I love you. You help me stay alive just by being yourself.

 

[sun rise]

Debate Slayer, I thought of you when I saw this article the other day.

Losing their religion: the hidden crisis of faith among Britain’s young Muslims

As debate rages over the radicalisation of young British Muslims, are we overlooking a different crisis of faith? Ex-Muslims who dare to speak out are often cut off by their families and fear for their lives. A brave few tell us their stories

Losing their religion: The hidden crisis of faith among Britain’s young Muslims | Global | The Guardian

 

[Jumi]

We had one Muslim-born immigrant elected to parliament for the Green Party. He's a feminist. He also describes himself as not religious. Also another Muslim immigrant from Afghanistan was elected who still considers herself religious who supports LGBT right to marriage.

 

[savagewind]

I am sorry that I do not know how to help you. I read on the thread that you are a woman? I do not know if he was being poetic calling you a girl with flowers in your hair. I shall admit that until now I thought you were male. I hope that is a compliment and not an insult. When people call me male I take it as a compliment. I don't know why exactly.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I am sorry that I do not know how to help you. I read on the thread that you are a woman? I do not know if he was being poetic calling you a girl with flowers in your hair. I shall admit that until now I thought you were male. I hope that is a compliment and not an insult. When people call me male I take it as a compliment. I don't know why exactly.

I'm a male.

 

[FTNZ]

I'm so glad I stumbled on this thread, but I only wish it had been sooner. DS you are my favourite person at RF. You are a precious, delightful person who I greatly admire and respect. Ever since I "met" you here, I have worried about you, living where you do. Now I know that the external is not the only threat.

I have lived (and could have died) with depression for over 20 years, and I tried 15 medications before finding one that works enough to stop me feeling suicidal. I've also discussed virtually every psych med available with highly experienced psychiatrists during this time, and read a lot of material about meds. I want to share a few points with you.

IMO because of your young age, you are at an increased risk of SSRI antidepressants causing paradoxical reactions and making your condition even worse than it would have been without medication. When this happens, the recommended approach is to stop the med, under medical supervision. The same approach applies to other types of meds... the medical supervision part is crucial because suddenly stopping a med can be dangerous.

I'm not sure if you are aware, but there are several (7 or 8) different classes of meds that can treat depression, and newer, more effective/safer meds being released each year in those classes. Sometimes a combination of 2 or even 3 meds can work better than one on its own.

The bad news is that the only way to find the right med(s) for you is through trial and error. I think any good doctor would agree with me that if you have 7 meds in 10 months, you are highly unlikely to have had enough time on any of them to find out if they are the best fit for you. There often need to be washout periods of 2 weeks or more between meds too.

So, excluding the ones that were too unsafe to continue with, if there were some that didnt seem to work well enough after up to 6 weeks, it might be worth keeping them on the table for consideration. Most meds need a 6 week trial. You may also need to allow time to taper up to an effective dose, and if the med is abandoned, you may need to taper down, then there may be a washout period of 2 weeks or more. So, the time taken from "let's try this med" to "you're ready to start with the next one" can be more like months than weeks.

OTOH, given how severe your depression seems to be, your doctor may decide to recommend a med(s) that can work quickly to stabilise you enough to start the trial and error process. If you have a good doctor (highly trained and experienced and up to date) then she or he may be able to quickly start trying the meds most likely to work, without having to take 6-12 months to find the one that works.

There are meds that could stabilise you quickly... they may make you drowsy but TBH I have found that a pleasant thing at the most difficult times. You probably shouldn't stay on these meds medium or long term, because of side effects and risks.

I know your experiences with meds so far have been awful, I really get that. Some of mine were too. But the potential exists for meds to treat your condition, and enable you to survive this tough period in your life, and progress to living well. I urge you to give them another try. With a good doctor.

If you would like to discuss specific meds we can do that by PM. I am all for information sharing, but actual advice needs to come from your doctor.

Also,

You are freaking amazing.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Hey @Debater Slayer ...
It is perhaps indicative of my own head space of late that I can't be sure whether I've responded to this thread already, but regardless, I'll keep things brief. If I've said this before...well...not like I could say it too much.

1) You are, and always have been, one of the reasons I log in here.
2) My wife is a mental health care professional, with a lot of experience. Not suggesting she can assist you over the 'net, but if there are drugs that you want an opinion of, questions you can't easily ask, etc, fire them via PM and I'll chase them up.

Not much more to say from me than that. I won't blow smoke by pretending I understand what your position is, but the one constant I've noticed in life is change.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Just to keep you all updated, I'm considering having my meds changed for the eighth time. I'm trying my hardest not to act on the suicidal thoughts I've been having, and the fact that I still get them so frequently and intensely leads me to believe that my current meds aren't very useful.

I don't want to give up just yet. I feel a responsibility to survive so that I can later be a voice for people who are or gave been in similar situations. It's very hard, and I often feel tempted to just call it a day, but I'm still trying to fight. Only time will tell how this will go.

 

[savagewind]

Do thoughts of suicide make you feel better? In my case, the thought of suicide causes a release of some kind of brain chemical which has a calming effect. I wonder if some people can become addicted to it?

 

[sun rise]

Just to keep you all updated, I'm considering having my meds changed for the eighth time. I'm trying my hardest not to act on the suicidal thoughts I've been having, and the fact that I still get them so frequently and intensely leads me to believe that my current meds aren't very useful.

I don't want to give up just yet. I feel a responsibility to survive so that I can later be a voice for people who are or gave been in similar situations. It's very hard, and I often feel tempted to just call it a day, but I'm still trying to fight. Only time will tell how this will go.

Your point about meds is very true. I hope you can find one that works better for you.

About the fight: it's a fight worth fighting as you wrote.

 

[LuisDantas]

Do thoughts of suicide make you feel better? In my case, the thought of suicide causes a release of some kind of brain chemical which has a calming effect. I wonder if some people can become addicted to it?

That is an interesting topic, but perhaps not for this thread.

 

[FTNZ]

Good to hear DS, I think you're on the right track. You can do so much that will help others. I wish you well.

 

[Laika]

Best of luck DS.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Do thoughts of suicide make you feel better? In my case, the thought of suicide causes a release of some kind of brain chemical which has a calming effect. I wonder if some people can become addicted to it?

The thought that suicide is a possibility gives me some comfort because I feel like there's a way out. I would feel completely imprisoned if suicide weren't a possibility at all.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

The thought that suicide is a possibility gives me some comfort because I feel like there's a way out. I would feel completely imprisoned if suicide weren't a possibility at all.

Right. It's that feeling of being completely trapped in a life that makes stories of Dante's Inferno sound like a cake walk.