Ancient Reality

[Kangaroo Feathers]

They look like this. Same sandal for 2000 years.

View attachment 31994

In fairness, the Pyramids were built significantly longer ago than that.

 

[sooda]

In fairness, the Pyramids were built significantly longer ago than that.

Camel hide sandals haven't changed much .

 

[cladking]

So - did he ever produce this amazing evidence?

You really can't see anything outside your belief system. The simple fact is this is the way human are programmed ever since the tower of babel.

The evidence is cited over and over and more has been found since this thread was begun.

ALL physical evidence and ALL of the logic clearly show the pyramids were built by pulling the stones straight up the sides of five step pyramids one step at a time. I have shown this in many ways and have debunked all the Egyptological assumptions about the builders and the pyramids.

Most of these things about language, nature, and the way the brain works are derived from peoples' resistance to seeing the obvious; pyramids were built in steps and are surrounded by moats.

 

[cladking]

So the poor that built the pyramids didn't wear them I assume.

The builders said the gods built the pyramids but we don't believe it because we know everything. All of us know there is No god or only One God.

There is a tiny little village at Giza that was used to house the few humans needed to construct the pyramids. Builders were select individuals who won a spot through lottery, chance, and living in the right city. There was lots of competition to work on the pyramids and there were equal numbers of men and women because there was equal amounts of men's work and women's work. There were also many children for running errands and fitting in tight places.

Poor people did not band together in superstition and ignorance to drag stones up ramps. Scientists sat in the shade sipping Perrier and operating "sceptres" that allowed the gods to work.

We've been sold a bill of goods by a "science" that won't perform basic testing on the pyramids.

 

[cladking]

The evidence is cited over and over and more has been found since this thread was begun.

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The authors made illogical, unwarranted, and wholly unsound conclusions but this quarry shows quite clearly that stone and overburden were pulled straight up the sides and a 36 degree "ramp". Obviously men didn't walk up a narrow ramp with stairs and posts in the way dragging heavy stones behind them. They didn't build a curve into the ramp just to make it even harder.

But this ramp still shows that stones (and overburden) were pulled remotely exactly as they did on the pyramids, from above.

 

[cladking]

I should think this out better before posting but I've been reading a little bit more about the "2000 BC" dark ages and wanted to get my thoughts down.

It looks like the event (official change to modern language) we remember only as the tale of the "tower of babel" might have actually occurred ~2090 BC. It was a "world wide" dark ages that modern scientists believe was caused by drought but I believe was the direct result of the loss of ancient science that had always operated civilization. It looks much different to us because we aren't aware that a scientific language can exist much less that it did and was used by all Homo Sapiens until it began becoming too complex ~3500 BC. Early modern "language" was just a free for all with no rules and only a hodgepodge of words that were the same as those in Ancient Language except took their meaning from context. It would sound like a modern child saying "go car grammas" and needing to deduce that he wants to travel to his grandmother's. Speakers of this pidgin language had to formulate grammar so they could converse with one another and, of course, most were none too bright anyway. It took about 300 years to get a language sufficiently comprehensible that it warranted the invention of writing which was used solely to prevent drift of meaning as pidgin (modern) language was relayed orally. Ancient Language didn't need to be written so writing was never invented for it. Much of it was written down after 3200 BC but it was incomprehensible to modern language speakers and it can not be translated. It will never be really translated because any translation of even simple sentences require a flow chart. It is easily interpreted or explained though we don't know how complex their science became and the most advanced writing might not be so easily interpreted. Remember we have only a single thing that survives and it is just silly little funerary rituals.

Few accounts of the collapse of ancient civilization exist but those which do clearly say that famine was the result and population decrease through collapse, starvation, disease, and infertility was extreme. I find it curious that even before the collapse that there is an apparent decentralization of power (especially in Egypt). We attribute this to a change in religion but it seems as though large scale failure of the population to acquire Ancient Language would have had the exact same effect. It was becoming increasingly difficult to acquaint the population with the will of a far flung capital. It would be difficult to show that the latest edict was in the best interests not only of the capital and state but also of the local population. Decentralization was a very natural consequence even before the utter failure to operate the state scientifically and to communicate efficiently. Knowledge > Creation > Understanding required an entirely new path for modern language speakers. There was no science of any sort whatsoever for them. It is hardly surprising that the collapse of the "tower of babel" ushered in a dark ages.

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't play word games. Please proceed without me.

Even then one is doing it.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes, he is using semantics.

If there were no belief, then why would any funerary text appeal to the gods, like Ra, Shu, Nut, Anubis, Osiris, Isis, Horus, etc.

Just because they don’t used the word “belief”, doesn’t mean they didn’t believe in anything.

It would be pretty stupid of anyone who read verses, utterances or prayers to their gods, and say there are “no ancient belief”.

It just simply false claim in which cladking have been caught doing, playing word games.

In Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey, not once they used the word “belief”, but they do pray to their gods and make sacrifices, and sometimes the gods would directly interact with them, but not once did the author explicitly use the word belief.

Does it really matter if “belief” is used or not?

I agree with one here and rated one's post as "winner".
I think it is perhaps the first time that we agree on a point.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

gnostic said: ↑
If there were no belief, then why would any funerary text appeal to the gods, like Ra, Shu, Nut, Anubis, Osiris, Isis, Horus, etc.

I use evidence and logic to show it's not a funerary text and you IGNORE THE EVIDENCE AND LOGIC and then repeat your vacuous claims as though they now are real.

If it's a "funerary text" then why are most of the words in the Pyramid Texts related to life and love rather than death?

Now you'll ignore this and repeat your beliefs and/ or your belief and trust in Look and See Science. Or you'll repeat the nonsense that I believe in a conspiracy you can't even define or name.

You don't even realize you're doing it do you?

Everything is perfectly obvious to you since all you need to do is look and see.

Why is one so angry with Gnostic if one's argument is strong, please?

Regards

 

[cladking]

gnostic said: ↑
If there were no belief, then why would any funerary text appeal to the gods, like Ra, Shu, Nut, Anubis, Osiris, Isis, Horus, etc.

Why is one so angry with Gnostic if one's argument is strong, please?

Revolutionary ideas are rarely or never accepted by groups or collections of people. They must be considered and accepted one individual at a time. This applies double to me because I'm no salesman and my "product" must sell itself. This means I have to address every point one at a time from each individual. Gnostic is just playing the same word games over and over. Rather than addressing the actual substance or meaning of a sentence he picks out words and plays with them. It doesn't really bother me except to the degree it's a waste of time.

Simply stated ancient people were not like us and did not think like us. This was discovered by coming to find through reverse engineering that the great pyramids were all five step pyramids built one step at a time as stones were pulled straight up the sides by water filled counterweights. It is proven by the fact that they said exactly this over and over again in the only writing that survives from ancient Egypt. Indeed, they literally said it literally in many ways and their words are consistent with logic, themselves, the physical evidence, and natural law. We can't see it because we can't and don't think like they did. We operate on belief and they operated on knowledge. we see "Gods" like Ra, Shu, Nut, Anubis, Osiris, Isis, and Horus but these were mere words that represented ancient theory and defined the subject of sentences. Specifically they were "sun", "sky", "architect", "water source", "counterweight", and "stone/ overseer".

There's nothing wrong with my argument. There is something wrong with our ability to see what we don't expect.

Gnostic invents new definitions of words and then refuses to use a definition that I provide. This is highly frustrating. I haven't encountered such except in one other individual since I was a boy. It seems like an intentional misunderstanding when I say one thing and get a response to something different.

OK, mebbe I am a little angry but I try not to let it show.

 

[tas8831]

Revolutionary ideas are rarely or never accepted by groups or collections of people.

"Revolutionary ideas" are generally NOT propped up by demonstrably false assertions and an utter ignorance of the very things that these 'revolutionary ideas' are supposed to supplant, eh Dr."broccas area"?

Sure, people laughed at Galileo, but they also laughed at Bozo the Clown (h/t Carl Sagan).

 

[cladking]

"Revolutionary ideas" are generally NOT propped up by demonstrably false assertions and an utter ignorance of the very things that these 'revolutionary ideas' are supposed to supplant, eh Dr."broccas area"?

You are mistaking a different perspective for error.

You see a pyramid from above from infinite distance and call it a square. I see the side from the inside and say that "it is triangular on the near side" (42 degree isosceles triangle). You are wrong or only correct in a left handed sort of way. I am reporting what I see from a different perspective and exactly correct.

We are all blind men trying to describe an elephant.

 

[gnostic]

Gnostic invents new definitions of words and then refuses to use a definition that I provide. This is highly frustrating.

I don’t invent words, and I certainly didn’t provide new definitions to words.

I leave that ego and vanity to you.

 

[cladking]

I don’t invent words, and I certainly didn’t provide new definitions to words.

I leave that ego and vanity to you.

Yet every single time I point out that;
...
"We operate on belief and they operated on knowledge. We see "Gods" like Ra, Shu, Nut, Anubis, Osiris, Isis, and Horus but these were mere words that represented ancient theory and defined the subject of sentences. Specifically they were "sun", "sky", "architect", "water source", "counterweight", and "stone/ overseer"."
...
...is metaphysical and that a language can exist that is the basis of science you want to argue about the meaning of "basis of science" and you call me a believer in conspiracies despite the fact that I don't believe it's even possible for some cabal to withhold theory or fact.

You don't want to discuss the literal meaning of what the pyramid builders literally said like, "osiris tows the earth by means of balance" or "tefnut makes the earth high under the sky by means of her arms". I have nothing but facts and logic that show the pyramids were built with linear funiculars and you want to play word games and semantics.

 

[cladking]

I should think this out better before posting but I've been reading a little bit more about the "2000 BC" dark ages and wanted to get my thoughts down.

It looks like the event (official change to modern language) we remember only as the tale of the "tower of babel" might have actually occurred ~2090 BC. It was a "world wide" dark ages that modern scientists believe was caused by drought but I believe was the direct result of the loss of ancient science that had always operated civilization. It looks much different to us because we aren't aware that a scientific language can exist much less that it did and was used by all Homo Sapiens until it began becoming too complex ~3500 BC. Early modern "language" was just a free for all with no rules and only a hodgepodge of words that were the same as those in Ancient Language except took their meaning from context. It would sound like a modern child saying "go car grammas" and needing to deduce that he wants to travel to his grandmother's. Speakers of this pidgin language had to formulate grammar so they could converse with one another and, of course, most were none too bright anyway. It took about 300 years to get a language sufficiently comprehensible that it warranted the invention of writing which was used solely to prevent drift of meaning as pidgin (modern) language was relayed orally. Ancient Language didn't need to be written so writing was never invented for it. Much of it was written down after 3200 BC but it was incomprehensible to modern language speakers and it can not be translated. It will never be really translated because any translation of even simple sentences require a flow chart. It is easily interpreted or explained though we don't know how complex their science became and the most advanced writing might not be so easily interpreted. Remember we have only a single thing that survives and it is just silly little funerary rituals.

Few accounts of the collapse of ancient civilization exist but those which do clearly say that famine was the result and population decrease through collapse, starvation, disease, and infertility was extreme. I find it curious that even before the collapse that there is an apparent decentralization of power (especially in Egypt). We attribute this to a change in religion but it seems as though large scale failure of the population to acquire Ancient Language would have had the exact same effect. It was becoming increasingly difficult to acquaint the population with the will of a far flung capital. It would be difficult to show that the latest edict was in the best interests not only of the capital and state but also of the local population. Decentralization was a very natural consequence even before the utter failure to operate the state scientifically and to communicate efficiently. Knowledge > Creation > Understanding required an entirely new path for modern language speakers. There was no science of any sort whatsoever for them. It is hardly surprising that the collapse of the "tower of babel" ushered in a dark ages.

When Ancient Language lost its status as the official state language there were still thousands of speakers. Most had probably already
begun concentrating their efforts on science and metaphysics to the exclusion of being judges, official, scientists, prophets, and leaders for the state.
They had had centuries to see this change coming and they did everything they could to prepare for it. These people were known as "Nephilim" after
the change in language and their science apparently survived at least until about 1400 BC. There were numerous reasons they had to die out beyond
their wealth and knowledge. The language continued to become more complex and the knowledge contained in it could not be taught to modern lan-
guage speakers. Inventions could be shared but there was little benefit to the Nephilim to do so, and more importantly, ancient science was poor at
creating invention. More accurately ancient science in practice was much more an "applied science" than a body of knowledge, instrumentation, and
widespread application. It was effective for overcoming specific problems or establishment of efficient processes but it was weak for invention of tools
with far reaching application and this is especially true when the tools are being used by modern language speakers who lacked any form of scientific
understanding.

To a large extent the real power and utility of Ancient Language was closely correlated to the number of individual who used it. As users were greatly
reduced in number after Babel and isolated in few enclaves their days simply became numbered. There was no means to convert their knowledge or
science to a transmittable media and their numbers had to decline further as the language became more complex. I imagine that by the end children
were ten or twelve years old before they could even speak properly so even education was impacted to some extent.

 

[paarsurrey]

When Ancient Language lost its status as the official state language there were still thousands of speakers. Most had probably already
begun concentrating their efforts on science and metaphysics to the exclusion of being judges, official, scientists, prophets, and leaders for the state.
They had had centuries to see this change coming and they did everything they could to prepare for it. These people were known as "Nephilim" after
the change in language and their science apparently survived at least until about 1400 BC. There were numerous reasons they had to die out beyond
their wealth and knowledge. The language continued to become more complex and the knowledge contained in it could not be taught to modern lan-
guage speakers. Inventions could be shared but there was little benefit to the Nephilim to do so, and more importantly, ancient science was poor at
creating invention. More accurately ancient science in practice was much more an "applied science" than a body of knowledge, instrumentation, and
widespread application. It was effective for overcoming specific problems or establishment of efficient processes but it was weak for invention of tools
with far reaching application and this is especially true when the tools are being used by modern language speakers who lacked any form of scientific
understanding.

To a large extent the real power and utility of Ancient Language was closely correlated to the number of individual who used it. As users were greatly
reduced in number after Babel and isolated in few enclaves their days simply became numbered. There was no means to convert their knowledge or
science to a transmittable media and their numbers had to decline further as the language became more complex. I imagine that by the end children
were ten or twelve years old before they could even speak properly so even education was impacted to some extent.

Is it a guess or there is more to it, please?

Regards
____________
[89:7]اَلَمۡ تَرَ کَیۡفَ فَعَلَ رَبُّکَ بِعَادٍ ۪ۙ﴿۷﴾
Hast thou not seen how thy Lord dealt with ‘Ad —
[89:8]اِرَمَ ذَاتِ الۡعِمَادِ ۪ۙ﴿۸﴾
The tribe of Iram, possessors of lofty buildings,
[89:9]الَّتِیۡ لَمۡ یُخۡلَقۡ مِثۡلُہَا فِی الۡبِلَادِ ۪ۙ﴿۹﴾
The like of whom have not been created in these parts —
[89:10]وَ ثَمُوۡدَ الَّذِیۡنَ جَابُوا الصَّخۡرَ بِالۡوَادِ ۪ۙ﴿۱۰﴾
And with Thamud who hewed out rocks in the valley,
[89:11]وَ فِرۡعَوۡنَ ذِی الۡاَوۡتَادِ ﴿۪ۙ۱۱﴾
And with Pharaoh, lord of vast camps?
[89:12]الَّذِیۡنَ طَغَوۡا فِی الۡبِلَادِ ﴿۪ۙ۱۲﴾
Who transgressed in the cities,
[89:13]فَاَکۡثَرُوۡا فِیۡہَا الۡفَسَادَ ﴿۪ۙ۱۳﴾
And wrought much corruption therein.
[89:15]اِنَّ رَبَّکَ لَبِالۡمِرۡصَادِ ﴿ؕ۱۵﴾
Surely thy Lord is on the watch
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 89: Al-Fajr

 

[gnostic]

Yet every single time I point out that;
...
"We operate on belief and they operated on knowledge. We see "Gods" like Ra, Shu, Nut, Anubis, Osiris, Isis, and Horus but these were mere words that represented ancient theory and defined the subject of sentences. Specifically they were "sun", "sky", "architect", "water source", "counterweight", and "stone/ overseer"."
...
...is metaphysical and that a language can exist that is the basis of science you want to argue about the meaning of "basis of science" and you call me a believer in conspiracies despite the fact that I don't believe it's even possible for some cabal to withhold theory or fact.

You don't want to discuss the literal meaning of what the pyramid builders literally said like, "osiris tows the earth by means of balance" or "tefnut makes the earth high under the sky by means of her arms". I have nothing but facts and logic that show the pyramids were built with linear funiculars and you want to play word games and semantics.

You are forgetting that the Pyramid Texts have some similarities with the 1st Intermediate Period and Middle Kingdom Coffin Texts. And these same names you have brought up (eg Atum, Ra, Shu, Nut, Osiris, Isis, Horus, Anubis, etc), not only appeared in the Middle Kingdom, but in dynasties of the New Kingdom, 3rd Intermediate Period and Late Period, eg Book(s) of the Dead.

If what you were saying were true about the Pyramid Texts, then these same names wouldn’t appear together in similar rituals and sayings of later funerary texts (eg Coffin Texts, Book of the Dead).

Why are the Pyramid Texts were written in similar fashions that of the Coffin Texts and Book of the Dead?

Not only these names appeared in hieroglyphs, but in artworks that are associated with funerary customs.

No, cladking. These writers weren’t writing in metaphysical language, these are merely your metaphysical interpretations, of the texts hence you are one playing word games.

 

[gnostic]

Is it a guess or there is more to it, please?

There are no beings as Nephilim.

Although they appeared a couple of times in the Old Testament, eg Genesis 6:4, Numbers 13:32-33, they were supposedly giants, and other sources often used word giants instead of Nephilim (eg the Septuagint, Targum, Vulgate, etc).

And in Numbers 13, Moses sent spies to Canaan, but the spies fabricated the false reports about there being Nephilim living in Canaan.

And believe me, there are no physical evidence of any group of giants living in 3rd millennium BCE ancient Egypt. There are also no such skeletal remains of giants found in the Levant and Mesopotamia too.

The whole Nephilim-giants were myths, and the stories about Nephilim got even more distorted in the Hellenistic period, during the writings of the books of Nephilim. There were no race of Nephilim, children of angels and mortal women (Genesis 6:1-4).

Most remains found in ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, were of average heights in those days, but slightly shorter than population of today.

cladking as usual, is confusing myths with history.

 

[cladking]

Is it a guess or there is more to it, please?

It's largely a guess.

But, it is not a "guess" that Ancient Language existed and was a representation of 40,000 years of a sophisticated science that gave rise to agriculture, cities
and the human race itself. This is theory.

The reason I'm guessing that the Nephilim were actually the remnants of the race of Homo Sapiens is that I believe all people always make sense in terms of
their premises. This "guess" makes more of the ancient holy books "sensible" and is consistent with what they said. It's also based on simple logic since An-
cient Language and ancient science wouldn't just "go away" when modern language became the official state language worldwide. All these people would con-
tinue as they always had and would naturally have some contact with the "new" people.

The difficulty is trying to understand what happened to them. The last post is simply my newest thinking on how and why they disappeared. They simply be-
came increasingly unable to adapt to a continually shrinking niche and they became extinct. I said 1400 BC at the earliest but, I believe they might have still
existed as late as the early-11th century BC.

I believe it is very likely (50%+) that the "Nephilim" were the last of the Ancient Language speakers and giants among men.

 

[cladking]

You are forgetting that the Pyramid Texts have some similarities with the 1st Intermediate Period and Middle Kingdom Coffin Texts. And these same names you have brought up (eg Atum, Ra, Shu, Nut, Osiris, Isis, Horus, Anubis, etc), not only appeared in the Middle Kingdom, but in dynasties of the New Kingdom, 3rd Intermediate Period and Late Period, eg Book(s) of the Dead.

This is exactly the problem.

Egyptologists translated AND interpreted the Pyramid Texts to represent these later beliefs. This despite the fact they didn't
even have a word for "belief".

If what you were saying were true about the Pyramid Texts, then these same names wouldn’t appear together in similar rituals and sayings of later funerary texts (eg Coffin Texts, Book of the Dead).

Cause necessarily precedes effect and effect can never precede cause.

The Pyramid Texts were first so could not be influenced by the "book of the dead". But the later books were influenced by the PT.

Why are the Pyramid Texts were written in similar fashions that of the Coffin Texts and Book of the Dead?

We see what we expect and the Pyramid Texts were found last.

Not only these names appeared in hieroglyphs, but in artworks that are associated with funerary customs.

Everything we have was found in tombs and graves. It's hardly surprising that everything is funerary related. It's called "sample
bias".

Even the Pyramid Texts are silly little rituals read at the funerals of the kings in a regicidal society.

Your last sentence is snipped as semantics.