Ancient Reality

[cladking]

cladking as usual, is confusing myths with history.

I've found several more references to "Nephilim" in the Bible, gnostic literature, and other "holy books" but this is irrelevant.

The question is who were they.

One thing sure and that is there's no evidence they were 10' tall.

Perhaps you're confusing history for myth.

 

[gnostic]

One thing sure and that is there's no evidence they were 10' tall.

Perhaps you're confusing history for myth.

There you go again, more bloody strawman attack.

I did say giants don’t exist.

In the spies’ false intelligence reports (Numbers 13:32-33), they described humans been like the size of grasshoppers to man, when comparing man to the Nephilim. The spies are definitely telling lies to Moses.

I didn’t say that I believe in the race of Nephilim, whether they are giants or not.

I've found several more references to "Nephilim" in the Bible, gnostic literature, and other "holy books" but this is irrelevant.

Yes, I know of other references made in other religious-mythological literature, and they are all myths.

And as I stated some sources do refer to Nephilim, but other sources that I have mentioned - the Greek Septuagint, Latin Vulgate, the Syriac Targum, the Samaritan Pentateuch, all used giants instead of Nephilim.

But the only texts that write about Nephilim in some details are in the Psedepigrapha books of Enoch and in the Book of Jubilees.

I don’t take any references to Nephilim seriously, so I am not the one confusing history and myths, I leave that confusions to you.

 

[paarsurrey]

Friend @gnostic !
One has mentioned "Religion: Pi π", what is its significance as a Religion, please.
Regards

 

[gnostic]

To @paarsurrey :

It's largely a guess.

But, it is not a "guess" that Ancient Language existed and was a representation of 40,000 years of a sophisticated science that gave rise to agriculture, cities
and the human race itself. This is theory.

As you can see, paarsurrey, cladking is making things up.

There are no evidences whatsoever man constructed cities or invented agriculture 40,000 years ago.

The oldest city is Jericho. Jericho was repeatedly constructed over older permanent settlement, and there are more than 20 layers, and the oldest is layer (at the bottom) is about 11,000 years ago.

This layer was constructed around 9600 BCE, and by 9400 BCE, the town grew large enough to have 70 mud-straw brick circular houses. Even more fascinating is the fortified walls surrounding the town, and a tower. This fortification may have been constructed to keep the water of Jordan from flooding Jericho, and not keep invaders away.

The slightly younger Göbekli Tepe (just over 9100 BCE), located in sotheast of Anatolia, what we now called Turkey. By 7300 BCE, Göbekli Tepe was abandoned. Even today, archaeologists haven’t been able to determine the purposes of Göbekli Tepe.

They may have languages, spoken languages 40,000 years ago, but nothing written until 5300 years ago, or 3300 BCE, with the primitive forms of cuneiform were found in Uruk (the Genesis called this city, Erech). Egyptian hieroglyphs didn’t exist until a century or two after Uruk’s cuneiform.

What languages they spoke 40,000 years ago, no one knows. And like I said, there were no writing system.

And the other things is that there were no science.

What cladking refused to understand is that there were no science this far back in time. Science is knowledge being explained, but since no writing exist, how could cladking possibly know there were science then?

I don’t know where he (cladking) got this 40,000 years, if he you telling that there were cities, agriculture, science and writings, then he is either lying to you, or he is seriously deluded.

 

[gnostic]

Friend @gnostic !
One has mentioned "Religion: Pi π", what is its significance as a Religion, please.
Regards

It is not a religion, it is a joke about all things circle and roundness.

 

[gnostic]

This is exactly the problem.

Egyptologists translated AND interpreted the Pyramid Texts to represent these later beliefs. This despite the fact they didn't
even have a word for "belief".

So damn what?

What I do give a crap if they have word for "belief" or not?

They didn't have a lot of words, is meaningless.

I have also read all the hymns to Sumerian gods, not once do they used the word "belief" or "religion". It is irrelevant.

The same names that appeared in the Pyramid Texts, also appeared in the Coffin Texts and different versions of the Book of the Dead. And sometimes these same names appeared as inscriptions next to the images of them, indicating that they believe in such deities.

All you are doing is associating certain objects to those names.

One of the problems, is your interpretations.

You have just admitted that your interpretations as guesses to paarsurrey, and yet you think your guesses are facts, when they really not.

They (guesses) are merely loose interpretations and unsubstantiated guesses.

It's largely a guess.

But, it is not a "guess" that Ancient Language existed and was a representation of 40,000 years of a sophisticated science that gave rise to agriculture, cities
and the human race itself. This is theory.

There are no writing systems whatsoever, 40,000 years ago, and you pretend to know their language. You are nothing more than BS artist, because without writings, you cannot possibly know what they think.

And you have balls to accuse me of "confusing history for myth", when you use myths, like the Tower of Babel and Nephilim in order to justify warped version of history.

Well, excuse me, cladking, Tower of Babel has never existed in the Genesis myth, and it is the same with Nephilim. While your Homo Omnisciencis is something you invented yourself, but don't exist anywhere except in your deluded fantasy. You claimed I have inventing new words or new definitions, playing word games, but I am afraid that you are the one who is projecting your delusion on me.

 

[cladking]

I don’t take any references to Nephilim seriously, so I am not the one confusing history and myths, I leave that confusions to you.

This is non sequitur.

You are not following what I'm saying or at the least not responding to it but rather to individual words of which the thoughts are composed.

I clearly stated you might be confusing history for myth after you suggested I was confusing myth for history. What part of the "myths are
history" is eluding your comprehension"? I addressed your ideas but now you have not and will not address mine. Instead you continually
repeat your beliefs as though I can't understand that you don't believe in 10' giants. I say "we agree" and you take umbrage and lambast me
for putting words in your mouth!!!

We agree!

I am telling you that I believe the "giant of old" were giants of the mind. They were giants upon whom the generations stood. They were the
remnants of 40,000 years of scientists and metaphysicians. They were the last of the Homo Sapiens who had invented agriculture and cities
without words like "belief", "thought", "taxonomy", nor "reduction". They not only lacked these words but they lacked their synonyms, anto-
nyms, and referents for them. You simply refuse to address any of this, ask for an elaboration, ask for evidence, dispute my facts or engage in
logic concerning these ideas. You'll pick a word out of this post and attack the word anyone who'd use it.

 

[cladking]

What languages they spoke 40,000 years ago, no one knows. And like I said, there were no writing system.

And no matter how much evidence and logic I present for a world-wide digital and metaphysical language,
you just ignore it and state your own beliefs. You believe language has never changed. You believe humans
were once not smart enough to invent writing. You believe anthropologists know enough to exclude the
possibility of a different type of language. You believe Egyptologists understand the Pyramid Texts despite
the fact it is internally inconsistent and makes no sense whatsoever. You believe there is no fundamental
difference between the great pyramid builders and Egyptologists.

I am challenging all of these beliefs and far more and you are ignoring all of the facts and evidence.

 

[cladking]

I have also read all the hymns to Sumerian gods, not once do they used the word "belief" or "religion".

Thank you.

Also thank you for alerting me to the existence of this; Sumerian Hymns from Cuneiform Texts in the British Museum, by Frederick Augustus Vanderburgh

But, again it is my contention that the language changed. Most of what I skimmed here is obviously written in modern language. As a
rule anything from ancient times that is comprehensible was written in modern language. I am saying that Ancient Language can't be
translated and any attempt at translation results in something which is internally inconsistent and incomprehensible. Egyptologists
actually believe the Pyramid Texts is incantation and that's why it looks like gobbledty gook.

All you are doing is associating certain objects to those names.

I am saying this is EXACTLY WHAT THE WRITERS OF THE "BOOK OF THE DEAD"and EGYPTOLOGISTS did when they attempted
to translate Ancient Language. They did not not understand the formatting because the formatting was science itself. The language was
metaphysical so if you don't understand the rules you can't understand the meaning.

You have just admitted that your interpretations as guesses to paarsurrey, and yet you think your guesses are facts, when they really not.

NONSENSE. I did nothing at all of the sort.

I said that much of how I stated the Nephilim died out was chiefly guesswork and even that the "nephilim" of the Bible were remnants
of ancient man was partly guesswork.

Well, excuse me, cladking, Tower of Babel has never existed in the Genesis myth, and it is the same with Nephilim. While your Homo Omnisciencis is something you invented yourself, but don't exist anywhere except in your deluded fantasy. You claimed I have inventing new words or new definitions, playing word games, but I am afraid that you are the one who is projecting your delusion on me.

This could be presented as proof of the existence of Homo Omnisciencis someday.

 

[paarsurrey]

Friend @gnostic and friend @cladking !

I understand that your discussion on the topic is locked in bitterness , it will be better if both of you take a time out in this thread for some days i,e for 3,7 or 15 days and reflect on the topic instead of involving each other in tension. Else you could agree to disagree and have a hand-shake and engage in some other topic. Just a friendly advice, please.

Regards

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

To @paarsurrey :


As you can see, paarsurrey, cladking is making things up.

There are no evidences whatsoever man constructed cities or invented agriculture 40,000 years ago.

The oldest city is Jericho. Jericho was repeatedly constructed over older permanent settlement, and there are more than 20 layers, and the oldest is layer (at the bottom) is about 11,000 years ago.

This layer was constructed around 9600 BCE, and by 9400 BCE, the town grew large enough to have 70 mud-straw brick circular houses. Even more fascinating is the fortified walls surrounding the town, and a tower. This fortification may have been constructed to keep the water of Jordan from flooding Jericho, and not keep invaders away.

The slightly younger Göbekli Tepe (just over 9100 BCE), located in sotheast of Anatolia, what we now called Turkey. By 7300 BCE, Göbekli Tepe was abandoned. Even today, archaeologists haven’t been able to determine the purposes of Göbekli Tepe.

They may have languages, spoken languages 40,000 years ago, but nothing written until 5300 years ago, or 3300 BCE, with the primitive forms of cuneiform were found in Uruk (the Genesis called this city, Erech). Egyptian hieroglyphs didn’t exist until a century or two after Uruk’s cuneiform.

What languages they spoke 40,000 years ago, no one knows. And like I said, there were no writing system.

And the other things is that there were no science.

What cladking refused to understand is that there were no science this far back in time. Science is knowledge being explained, but since no writing exist, how could cladking possibly know there were science then?

I don’t know where he (cladking) got this 40,000 years, if he you telling that there were cities, agriculture, science and writings, then he is either lying to you, or he is seriously deluded.

There's also Theopatra Cave, wich holds to oldest known build human scructure: a wall that was likely build to protect the residents inside from cold wind.

There's traces of human activity (footprints, if I remember correctly) in this cave that even go back 135.000 years.

 

[paarsurrey]

There's also Theopatra Cave, wich holds to oldest known build human scructure: a wall that was likely build to protect the residents inside from cold wind.

There's traces of human activity (footprints, if I remember correctly) in this cave that even go back 135.000 years.

But friend @gnostic was mentioning about cities:

"There are no evidences whatsoever man constructed cities or invented agriculture 40,000 years ago."

and of languages:

"What languages they spoke 40,000 years ago, no one knows. And like I said, there were no writing system."

And Theopetra was not a city, and what language people living there 135000 years ago spoke.

Regards

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But friend @gnostic was mentioning about cities:

"There are no evidences whatsoever man constructed cities or invented agriculture 40,000 years ago."

and of languages:

"What languages they spoke 40,000 years ago, no one knows. And like I said, there were no writing system."

And Theopetra was not a city, and what language people living there 135000 years ago spoke.

Regards

I just mentioned it because it holds the oldest known human construct: a wall, likely used for protection from cold winds. I think that's quite significant when thinking about the development of settlements (and later cities). Obviously, a development of construction techniques preceeded the "oldest" known cities. It is very likely that such constructions are also lost forever in the pages of history. People don't just start building large cities with city walls out of nothing, overnight, right?

Surely it was preceeded by smaller settlements, with constructions of lesser quality, which didn't survive for > 10.000 years for us to find them.

Nomads don't just decide one day to build a pyramid....


So, as far as Theopetra goes, I think finding a constructed wall of 28k years ago, is pretty significant.
It means that people were already constructing things, for the purpose of fortification and/or shelter, some 18 thousand years before the oldest traces of cities we have found.

 

[cladking]

I never said, implied, or suggested there were cities 40,000 years ago.

I said the species (Homo Sapiens) that built cities was created 40,000 years ago. Homo Sapiens died out in 2000 BC giving way to Homo Omnisciencis.

 

[sooda]

The Pyramid Texts says over and over that the pyramids were not tombs. It goes on to say over and over that the pyramids were the king. It suggests he was cremated on the east side of the first step in a funeral pyre called an "iskn".

There is no direct evidence of any sort that any great pyramid was designed for or used as a tomb.



First off, the language of the Pyramid Texts has never been solved. Secondly it can't be "read" and never will because it's written in a different type of language. The skills to understand it are not well described as "reading". This language can not be translated into English or any modern language.

It only looks like our language because it has been solved in terms of the book of the dead from later and it uses the same vocabulary. Modern language simply uses the same vocabulary as Ancient Language. This masks the meaning because the book of the dead really is derived from the Pyramid Texts. The PT was an ancient holy book that wasn't understood so they modeled their new ideas and beliefs around it. Science was lost when Ancient Language imploded.

Put the search string in google. There will be no hits showing the words didn't exist in Mercer's translation.
I'm not very familiar with hieroglyphs but I know where many of the glyphs originated and what they really mean. Egyptologists don't realize it's important to know things like why "djed" means stable and enduring ort why "ankh" means life but I do. We'll never get a proper interpretation of the PT until such things are understood. Right now it is incomprehensible gobbledty gook and every Egyptologist believes it is just incantation.

It is not incantation. They are so obviously wrong I can't imagine how they made this error;

868c. Now be still, hear it, this word which is said: "N.,

There is line after line after line of instructions to the individual reading it and to the crowds listening to him read it. It is just a silly little book of ritual. They got it all wrong. They got it wrong because you can't "read" or "parse" Ancient Language. It loses its meaning if you try to take it apart to read or study. Ancient people didn't think like Egyptologists. They thought like falcons, lions, and snakes.

Then why did they have complicated embalming rituals, mummification and sarcophagi?

 

[sooda]

If I get credit for my own discovery I'll be eligible for a prize in almost every subject.

Of course the prizes really should go to the ancient scientists and metaphysicians who made my discovery possible.

Are you studying in Egypt currently?

Pyramid Texts | Egyptian religion | Britannica.com
www.britannica.com/topic/Pyramid-Texts
Pyramid Texts. Pyramid Texts, collection of Egyptian mortuary prayers, hymns, and spells intended to protect a dead king or queen and ensure life and sustenance in the hereafter. The texts, inscribed on the walls of the inner chambers of pyramids, are found at Ṣaqqārah in several 5th- and 6th-dynasty pyramids, of which that of Unas,...

 

[cladking]

Then why did they have complicated embalming rituals, mummification and sarcophagi?

Hold onto your socks here but there is also no evidence that any king was embalmed and only circumstantial evidence for sarcophagi.

I believe the kings were embalmed to make it easier to burn the body on the 5th day of the w3g-festival but the Pyramid Texts is quite
explicit that the king's body was cremated.

Our beliefs come from understanding the Ancient Language rituals of the Pyramid Texts only in terms of the "book of the dead". None
of this writing makes any sense to modern people. Egyptologists actually believe you need a doctorate in Egyptology to understand the
...(English translation of the)...
Pyramid Texts!!! This is obviously absurd. I merely claim that the Pyramid Texts are ritual read at the kings' ascension ceremonies and
they mean exactly and literally what they say. Egyptologists believe they are incantations!!!!

This is all sublimely absurd. Nobody seems to notice because everyone has been hoodwinked into believing that ancient people were
primitive, ignorant and superstitious versions of ourselves. They believe this despite the lack of any corroborating evidence and despite
extensive evidence to the contrary.

It is apparent that we wholly misapprehend the great pyramid builders and this situation exists because of our beliefs. It exists because
of sample bias and because we can see only what we believe. It exists because we can't even see the natures of consciousness, humanity,
or life in general. It exists because Egyptology refuses to test their assumptions and beliefs. It exists through inertia and the utter fail-
ure of 19th century science.

I believe people in the future will laugh at us and our naivete. "Egyptologist" could become the punchline of every joke. The longer they
refuse to systematically apply modern science and knowledge to the study of the pyramids and their builders the worse it will be in the
future.

 

[sooda]

Hold onto your socks here but there is also no evidence that any king was embalmed and only circumstantial evidence for sarcophagi.

I believe the kings were embalmed to make it easier to burn the body on the 5th day of the w3g-festival but the Pyramid Texts is quite
explicit that the king's body was cremated.

Our beliefs come from understanding the Ancient Language rituals of the Pyramid Texts only in terms of the "book of the dead". None
of this writing makes any sense to modern people. Egyptologists actually believe you need a doctorate in Egyptology to understand the
...(English translation of the)...
Pyramid Texts!!! This is obviously absurd. I merely claim that the Pyramid Texts are ritual read at the kings' ascension ceremonies and
they mean exactly and literally what they say. Egyptologists believe they are incantations!!!!

This is all sublimely absurd. Nobody seems to notice because everyone has been hoodwinked into believing that ancient people were
primitive, ignorant and superstitious versions of ourselves. They believe this despite the lack of any corroborating evidence and despite
extensive evidence to the contrary.

It is apparent that we wholly misapprehend the great pyramid builders and this situation exists because of our beliefs. It exists because
of sample bias and because we can see only what we believe. It exists because we can't even see the natures of consciousness, humanity,
or life in general. It exists because Egyptology refuses to test their assumptions and beliefs. It exists through inertia and the utter fail-
ure of 19th century science.

I believe people in the future will laugh at us and our naivete. "Egyptologist" could become the punchline of every joke. The longer they
refuse to systematically apply modern science and knowledge to the study of the pyramids and their builders the worse it will be in the
future.

OK.. Then what were the stone sarcophagi for and why were there mummies if they were cremated?

Pyramid Texts Online - English Translation
www.pyramidtextsonline.com/translation.html
Translation of the Unas Pyramid Texts. The following is the complete text from the Pyramid of Unas, based on translations by Faulkner, Piankoff and Speleer.

 

[cladking]

OK.. Then what were the stone sarcophagi for and why were there mummies if they were cremated?

"Sarcophagus" is just a word. In this case it would be a stone box used for a burial except there's NO EVIDENCE it was used for a burial and no evidence it is anything but a stone box.

The Pyramid Texts strongly suggest the kings were mummified but it explicitly says they were cremated AND it says the pyramids were NOT tombs. If the kings were actually mummified (and no evidence other than one line in the PT says so) then I would guess this was to make them more easily or more quickly to burn. Very little fuel would be needed to burn a desiccated body wrapped in linen.

NO MUMMIES EXIST OF ANY EGYPTIAN KING BEFORE ~1500 BC. No evidence any king was preserved.

There were probably mummies of kings starting sometime in the 5th dynasty that were preserved in the tiny little piles of rubble that Egyptologists call "pyramids" but there is no evidence of it. The first "positive" indication that any king was buried in a pyramid didn't occur until ~1800 BC nearly 1000 years after the great pyramids were built. This appears in the "Admonition of Ipuwer" that suggest that the pyramids of that time had been stripped of corpses (and presumably riches).

Egyptology has extrapolated all of the great pyramid building age from much later eras. They saw the Pyramid Texts look like the "book of the dead" and they just ran with it despite the fact the language looks different and the earlier work is wholly incomprehensible. They explain the incomprehensibility by thew "many origins theory" that avers the incantation and religion arose in many places and could not be reconciled. They are just explaining away all the physical evidence and the literal meaning of the Pyramid Texts. They present a warped version of of even reality itself by suggesting that superstition made ancient people strong and wise. In reality superstition destroys and kills. It can only blind and wreck havoc because superstition necessarily impedes our ability to see reality. The real world is brutal and it tends to be especially brutal to those who operate on superstition, assumption, and belief. If ancient people had been superstitious like us they would have died out or someone else would have eaten their lunch and we'd be their progeny instead.

This couldn't be simpler.

 

[sooda]

"Sarcophagus" is just a word. In this case it would be a stone box used for a burial except there's NO EVIDENCE it was used for a burial and no evidence it is anything but a stone box.

The Pyramid Texts strongly suggest the kings were mummified but it explicitly says they were cremated AND it says the pyramids were NOT tombs. If the kings were actually mummified (and no evidence other than one line in the PT says so) then I would guess this was to make them more easily or more quickly to burn. Very little fuel would be needed to burn a desiccated body wrapped in linen.

NO MUMMIES EXIST OF ANY EGYPTIAN KING BEFORE ~1500 BC. No evidence there was any body was preserved.

There were probably mummies of kings starting sometime in the 5th dynasty that were preserved in the tiny little piles of rubble that Egyptologists call "pyramids" but there is no evidence of it. The first "positive" indication that any king was buried in a pyramid didn't occur until ~1800 BC nearly 1000 years after the great pyramids were built. This appears in the "Admonition of Ipuwer" that suggest that the pyramids of that time had been stripped of corpses (and presumably riches).

Egyptology has extrapolated all of the great pyramid building age from much later eras. They saw the Pyramid Texts look like the "book of the dead" and they just ran with it despite the fact the language looks different and the earlier work is wholly incomprehensible. They explain the incomprehensibility by thew "many origins theory" that avers the incantation and religion arose in many places and could not be reconciled. They are just explaining away all the physical evidence and the literal meaning of the Pyramid Texts. They present a warped version of of even reality itself by suggesting that superstition made ancient people strong and wise. In reality superstition destroys and kills. It can only blind and wreck havoc because superstition necessarily impedes our ability to see reality. The real world is brutal and it tends to be especially brutal to those who operate on superstition, assumption, and belief. If ancient people had been superstitious like us they would have died out or someone else would have eaten their lunch and we'd be their progeny instead.

This couldn't be simpler.

The stone boxes and mummies are in the Cairo Museum. Haven't you seen them in your studies?

Most cultures have burial rituals and traditions.. Look at Byblos and Balbek. Does that mean they are unintelligent and superstitious?