Animal killing

[whereismynotecard]

I think no life is sacred. It's all worthless, but animals do have feelings and emotions, and you should try not to torture them and / or kill them unless you have to or unless they are always very mean to you and deserve it. I am okay with killing animals for food or for something like that, but you shouldn't kill them just for fun or as some sort of sacrifice. If you think your god really wants something to die for it, have yourself be the sacrifice. That will mean so much more that you are willing to kill yourself instead of something else.

(the word "animal" in my post applies to humans and every other animal who has feelings and a personality, except not bugs, which are scary)

 

[.lava]

I think no life is sacred. It's all worthless, but animals do have feelings and emotions, and you should try not to torture them and / or kill them unless you have to or unless they are always very mean to you and deserve it. I am okay with killing animals for food or for something like that, but you shouldn't kill them just for fun or as some sort of sacrifice. If you think your god really wants something to die for it, have yourself be the sacrifice. That will mean so much more that you are willing to kill yourself instead of something else.

(the word "animal" in my post applies to humans and every other animal who has feelings and a personality, except not bugs, which are scary)

just for the record, sacrifice in Islam never means to shed blood and waste lives of animals for nothing. animals get killed everyday and meat is expensive thing for some people. in that chosen time of year, meat of animals are given to poor people free. that's what sacrifice means. it is nothing like just killing to show how much you love God. it is for helping poor people. IMO there is nothing wrong with that

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[whereismynotecard]

Yeah. That sounds fine. It's killing them for food. That's fine with me. It's killing them just for god(s) without any actual reason for them having to die that makes me angry.

 

[aymen amir]

am fine with killing animals as long as it is in a proper way ......specially for food purposes .. how can i stay with out meat i would die

its the torture that i really hate.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

i believe animal life is scared but it not more sacred than human life.

I think life is all basically the same. Value is something that we subjectively add. To some human life might be more valuable strictly because it is human, but I can honestly say I would save my cat or my lovebird from certain death ahead of a human I didn't know or care about.

 

[whereismynotecard]

I would save Baggins from certain death before I'd save humans I do know and care about.

Actually choosing between my mom, sisters, and Baggins would be impossible for me...

 

[Madhuri]

am fine with killing animals as long as it is in a proper way ......specially for food purposes .. how can i stay with out meat i would die

its the torture that i really hate.

Unfortunately with so many people on earth and such high demand for meat the meat industry naturally operates on a level that depersonalises (if that is the right word) the animals and basically treats them like objects. They are treated very, very badly. I wish their methods were more humane.

 

[nameless]

just for the record, sacrifice in Islam never means to shed blood and waste lives of animals for nothing

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anyway animals gain nothing, they are forced to become the losers.....

in that chosen time of year, meat of animals are given to poor people free. that's what sacrifice means. it is nothing like just killing to show how much you love God. it is for helping poor people.

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people around the world are starving each and everyday, if there is true sincerety to help the poor why should we wait for a special day for that? it depicts people does these expecting reward from their god, and no sincerety to the poor.

 

[.lava]

anyway animals gain nothing, they are forced to become the losers.....



people around the world are starving each and everyday, if there is true sincerety to help the poor why should we wait for a special day for that? it depicts people does these expecting reward from their god, and no sincerety to the poor.

i don't know. why should you wait, nameless? you know, i never said we are commmanded to wait

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[nameless]

i don't know. why should you wait, nameless? you know, i never said we are commmanded to wait

in that chosen time of year, meat of animals are given to poor people free.

i think i have mistaken these words of yours, right?

 

[.lava]

i think i have mistaken these words of yours.

yes it is a chosen time just like time of Hajj. it is possible to go to Ka'ba in other times and it is called Umra, not Hajj. there is no time limit for people to help poor or sacrifice a animal life for poor people. in that chosen time, people do it together

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[nameless]

yes it is a chosen time just like time of Hajj. it is possible to go to Ka'ba in other times and it is called Umra, not Hajj. there is no time limit for people to help poor or sacrifice a animal life for poor people. in that chosen time, people do it together

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fine , seems like the topic is getting deviated.

 

[.lava]

fine , seems like the topic is getting deviated.

sorry, that's not my intention. i gave Hajj example to make it easier to be understood

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[nameless]

sorry, that's not my intention. i gave Hajj example to make it easier to be understood

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that is not what i meant, further discussion on this would take us away from this topic. See where we are now

 

[Gharib]

people around the world are starving each and everyday, if there is true sincerety to help the poor why should we wait for a special day for that? it depicts people does these expecting reward from their god, and no sincerety to the poor.

some people, even though muslim, do not give in charity, they have a tight hand and a poor heart so by having a specific obligatory month or day people give that day as it is only once a year and everyone does it. we are however encouraged to help the poor every time of the year not just in these specified days.

 

[Azakel]

I think its very selfish and proud NOT to eat animals, it is a sense of false superiority, no human is too good not to eat other life forms. life feeds on life, this is the nature of reality on all levels. nothing is sacred, not humans, and not cows, its rubbish to call a person a saint whether he is a complete vegan and pacifist just as much as its vain to call a person who's willing to be crucified a saint, being a 'saint' is a liability. any sane person, does not want to be nor a saint, nor a 'sinner', but a normal person in a society without giving his life for anyone.

I agree my friend, which might seem weird coming from a Pagan. But I don't hold typical 'Pagan' views.
[FONT=Century Gothic,Verdana,Arial]Life begets death and death begets life. Chaos is the fuel of creation. Something must always be destroyed for something to be created.
Nature is harsh. It is unforgiving. The weak die or are killed by the strong. Life feeds on life. Even the strictest vegan is a plant killer.
-John J. Coughlin- [/FONT]

 

[Madhuri]

I think its very selfish and proud NOT to eat animals, it is a sense of false superiority, no human is too good not to eat other life forms. life feeds on life, this is the nature of reality on all levels. nothing is sacred, not humans, and not cows, its rubbish to call a person a saint whether he is a complete vegan and pacifist just as much as its vain to call a person who's willing to be crucified a saint, being a 'saint' is a liability. any sane person, does not want to be nor a saint, nor a 'sinner', but a normal person in a society without giving his life for anyone.

Are you serious? Superior? What does abstining from meat have to do with superiority?
Life feeds on life. True. Everything i eat comes from something that was living. How does this help your argument? Who calls vegetarians saints?
Vegetarianism is a personal choice and for the most part it is a response to the industrial processes in our contemporary era. Those who raise their voice about moral issues are trying to illicit change because 'natural' can no longer be dismissed as 'moral' in a society that operates on technologies that are 'unnatural'. In other words, we are not simple hunters any more trying to survive. We are mass producing consumers who could care less about the implications to creatures that suffer for our selfish benefit. I say selfish because most of us have access to the nutrients we need without eating animals. I say selfish because for the most part people eat far more meat than is necessary or even healthy.

Sometimes the way people argue for eating meat makes them seem very superior indeed.

 

[Azakel]

Are you serious? Superior? What does abstining from meat have to do with superiority?

The fact that a lot of people who don't eat meat call themselves such, the clam that they are superior to others in a moral ways. They are a few Vegetarians on this site that are that way.

Life feeds on life. True. Everything i eat comes from something that was living. How does this help your argument? Who calls vegetarians saints?

I'm sure that are some amongst themselves that do while demeaning others.

Vegetarianism is a personal choice and for the most part it is a response to the industrial processes in our contemporary era. Those who raise their voice about moral issues are trying to illicit change because 'natural' can no longer be dismissed as 'moral' in a society that operates on technologies that are 'unnatural'.

That maybe, but they 'attack' anyone that eats meat, not just the because of the way most meat is gotten. Many people that eat meat don't buy from big companies and still go about the 'Natural' way yet still get called immoral and monsters.

In other words, we are not simple hunters any more trying to survive. We are mass producing consumers who could care less about the implications to creatures that suffer for our selfish benefit. I say selfish because most of us have access to the nutrients we need without eating animals. I say selfish because for the most part people eat far more meat than is necessary or even healthy.

And yet some of us are still hunters, and are nothing like those other people. Some of us feel the same way about the big meat industry.

Sometimes the way people argue for eating meat makes them seem very superior indeed.

I think your putting words into 'Dan mouth here. I don't see anywhere in his post where he argues for eating meat and claiming superiority.

 

[Madhuri]

He didn't claim superiority, he accused people who don't eat meat of being proud and superior. Both of you are generalising a lot. Most vegetarians I know do not act as though they are superior but most meat eaters I have had to deal with basically call me weird and unnatural or abnormal. I have experienced first hand the attitude of meat eaters toward vegetarians.

Sure there are still some hunters. But like vegetarians, we are both minorities.

I wonder if you consider some people on this site to act morally superior simply because they are arguing their point. I am not accusing you, but I have seen this happen many times.

example, based on my days in high school: "Why are you a vegetarian?"
"I don't eat meat for moral reasons"
"Eating meat is natural. I will now list all the reasons why you should eat meat and why you are unnatural"
"It's what I choose to do. I don't like the idea that I am contributing to animal suffering and I don't lack any nutrients"
"Whatever, get off your high horse."

I still get this kind of attitude frequently and it gets old real quick.

 

[Azakel]

He didn't claim superiority, he accused people who don't eat meat of being proud and superior. Both of you are generalizing a lot. Most vegetarians I know do not act as though they are superior but most meat eaters I have had to deal with basically call me weird and unnatural or abnormal. I have experienced first hand the attitude of meat eaters toward vegetarians.

I was not generalizing, and if it seemed that way I am sorry. I was just making mentioned that there are quite a few vegetarians I know that do act that way. And you can all most seem to be generalizing here about those people that eat meat just because you have had a few bad run ins.

Sure there are still some hunters. But like vegetarians, we are both minorities.

That we are.

I wonder if you consider some people on this site to act morally superior simply because they are arguing their point. I am not accusing you, but I have seen this happen many times.

I do, I see it all the time. But there are ways to go about it to where one doesn't have to act superior in a way that makes other sound like monsters and immoral. Oh and I wasn't trying to accuse you ether when I first quoted you, if you thought that. People on both side of the Eat meat/don't Eat meat can be buttheads, no one is perfect.

example, based on my days in high school: "Why are you a vegetarian?"
"I don't eat meat for moral reasons"
"Eating meat is natural. I will now list all the reasons why you should eat meat and why you are unnatural"
"It's what I choose to do. I don't like the idea that I am contributing to animal suffering and I don't lack any nutrients"
"Whatever, get off your high horse."

I'm sorry to hear that. Those kind of people are wrong in there thinking. While I agree that eating meat is natural I don't use that against people who decide not too.
I have gotten plenty of the, 'You are a horrible person for killing animals for food.' and so on. We are just two different people who happen to see different side because of are choices.

I still get this kind of attitude frequently and it gets old real quick.

I'm sorry that you still get that for the boobs you know. I agree that it gets old, people from both side just need to let people live and let live.
The one thing I do agree with is the horrible way that animals are treated in the Majority of the farming community. Though I still eat meat I watch where I get it from, this all come about after a trip me junior year in high school when we went to 2 different 'slaughtering' plants.
After all this I hope we can still be friends ^_^.