Animal killing

[Madhuri]

After all this I hope we can still be friends ^_^.

Of course!
What I didn't like was Dan's comments. It seemed very one sided and generalised. If there is one thing I feel very strongly about, it is animal wellfair. I don't have anything against people who eat meat, specifically because it is natural. But I don't like feeling as though I am doing something wrong because from my perspective, this is how I am contributing to make the world a little better.

I have to ask you though, what is this about boobs??
(Is it slang for something?)

 

[Azakel]

I have to ask you though, what is this about boobs??
(Is it slang for something?)

Yeah in America is can by used a slang for how people act. Think how it like idiot. Best way I can think to explain it ^_^

 

[Madhuri]

Yeah in America is can by used a slang for how people act. Think how it like idiot. Best way I can think to explain it ^_^

I think it is funny how sexual body parts are used to express something negative like 'idiot' or 'stupid'. For isntance, in Aus we may call someone a 'Tosser', which technically means a person who mastrubates but the slang use of the word just means the person is an idiot or loser.

 

[Valjean]

Would those who would kill animals for food condemn killing vulnearble humans for the same purpose?
If not, why? What's the qualitative difference?

 

[Azakel]

Would those who would kill animals for food condemn killing vulnearble humans for the same purpose?
If not, why? What's the qualitative difference?

I don't know, depends, from what I understand eating the flesh and all of another human being can bring a hell of a lot more problems then with others animals. I wouldn't do it if it's the last thing I had to do.
Doesn't one go crazy eating other humans, not just the fact that you're killing another person but that there's something in the meat that when we consume it it messes with us. Please correct me if I am wrong(which I'm guessing I am). I don't even remember where I heard that.

 

[Madhuri]

I don't know, depends, from what I understand eating the flesh and all of another human being can bring a hell of a lot more problems then with others animals. I wouldn't do it if it's the last thing I had to do.
Doesn't one go crazy eating other humans, not just the fact that you're killing another person but that there's something in the meat that when we consume it it messes with us. Please correct me if I am wrong(which I'm guessing I am). I don't even remember where I heard that.

I don't think there is any health problems associated with eating other humans. In fact, I've herd that humans taste really good but to be honest, I don't know who sprouted that information originally...
The reasons for not eating other humans is because of social stigma, moral thinking and the fact that we make laws against killing each other to protect our own selves from each other.

The reasons why I personally would not cause harm unnecessarily to another human being is the same as why I would not unnecessarily cause harm to another non-human animal. Having a special sentimentality toward my own race is a bit of an illusion I think. In fact I tend to feel much more affectionate toward animals than I do to the average human being.

 

[Valjean]

Eating anything carries a risk of contracting whatever diseases it carries. A lot of the diseases that plague humanity are zo-onotics -- diseases transfered from one species to another. But not all diseases are tranferrable between species, whereas all human diseases are transferrable to other humans. That said, though, the percentage of humans with virulent diseases another human might be susceptible to is fairly low.

 

[Azakel]

Eating anything carries a risk of contracting whatever diseases it carries. A lot of the diseases that plague humanity are zo-onotics -- diseases transfered from one species to another. But not all diseases are tranferrable between species, whereas all human diseases are transferrable to other humans. That said, though, the percentage of humans with virulent diseases another human might be susceptible to is fairly low.

Okay, thank you. Also, I guess if you where to cook it through enough it would kill the disease.

 

[Valjean]

True -- unless it's a prion disease.

 

[Panda]

Would those who would kill animals for food condemn killing vulnearble humans for the same purpose?
If not, why? What's the qualitative difference?

IMO humans are worth more than other animals.

 

[Madhuri]

IMO humans are worth more than other animals.

I am not going to disagree with you but firstly, do you realise that 'worth' of one species over another is subjective and secondly, could you explain your reasons for feeling that humans have more worth? And worth for what?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I believe we should be responsible stewards of animals. If a paticular type of animal is endangered, we have an obligation to protect it.

I was raised that we should take care of our animals first each day. They get fed before I eat breakfast, (although I do have some coffee so my eyes will stay open).

It is our responsibility to see that animals do not suffer or are mistreated.

Meat harvested from animals should never be wasted. It should be understood that an animal gave it's life for a meal.

 

[Valjean]

IMO humans are worth more than other animals.

"Worth more" in what way?
I assume you're not talking about net monetary worth, and you're certainly not referring to contribution to the ecosystem.

 

[Caladan]

Are you serious? Superior? What does abstining from meat have to do with superiority?
Life feeds on life. True. Everything i eat comes from something that was living. How does this help your argument? Who calls vegetarians saints?
Vegetarianism is a personal choice and for the most part it is a response to the industrial processes in our contemporary era. Those who raise their voice about moral issues are trying to illicit change because 'natural' can no longer be dismissed as 'moral' in a society that operates on technologies that are 'unnatural'. In other words, we are not simple hunters any more trying to survive. We are mass producing consumers who could care less about the implications to creatures that suffer for our selfish benefit. I say selfish because most of us have access to the nutrients we need without eating animals. I say selfish because for the most part people eat far more meat than is necessary or even healthy.

Sometimes the way people argue for eating meat makes them seem very superior indeed.

You should have read the thread in its context it was written 4,5 months ago. as far as I remember we had a few semi militant threads about vegetarianism including religious prespectives and my post should be framed in that context.
also, will all due respect to the problems of consumerism, there are more realistic ways to tackle the issues than going completely vegetarian.

 

[Rio Sabinas]

Madhuri sez..."I've heard that humans taste really good"

I'm not certain about it but I think it came from the Southwest Pacific canibals who's word for human meat translated into "Long Pig".

 

[MSizer]

The fact that a lot of people who don't eat meat... claim that they are superior to others in a moral ways. They are a few Vegetarians on this site that are that way.....

I have tried to shorten the quote above without changing the message. Since it applies directly to me, I would like to address it.

Would you not say that a person who chooses not to kill people on a regular basis is acting in a more morally enlightened way than one who chooses to kill people regularly? Could it not be said that such a person who chooses to kill people is morally inferior to a person who refrains from killing?

If that is so, and if it is correct that killing animals is immoral (which I do believe) then despite the fact that I don't go around announcing it, would it not be true that one who eats meat (encouraging the killing of animals) is morally inferior from one who refrains from eating meat so as not to encourage the killing of animals?

I don't know of anyone who goes around shoving it in people's faces, but since you accuse us of doing so, let's call it like it is. In order to eat meat, you must (either yourself or by proxy) kill a concious being which experiences pain and has personal self interest. That IMO, is murder. If you're perfectly happy with it, it's your business, but don't make up BS about people who quietly choose to make personal sacrifices in order to take a morally higher ground.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Friends,
The following is the view of friend .lava in response to the thread *animal sacrifice during Hajj*

i believe animal life is scared but it not more sacred than human life.

Kindly respond what each one of you believe or feel. This is not a debate or to demean any one view but it is about sharing and allowing each one to learn and grow in consciousness.

Love & rgds

I present my view:
1.All life is sacred.Comparison between animal and human life is futile.
2.No person/religion can tell you what you have to eat.It is a personal choice.
3.Vegetarianism is a virtue IMHO.But being non-veggie does not make you inferior.Virtues remove false sense of superiority in a person.
4.Milk and Egg does not result in loss of animal life.Hence it is ok just to be vegetarian (and not a vegan).
5.I think it alright to kill animals and insect that attack humans.

 

[Azakel]

I have tried to shorten the quote above without changing the message. Since it applies directly to me, I would like to address it.

I haven't read the rest of your post before I type this, and doubt it will change. It was in NO WAY applied directly out you, and I would like if you didn't make such ignorant assumptions.

 

[Azakel]

Would you not say that a person who chooses not to kill people on a regular basis is acting in a more morally enlightened way than one who chooses to kill people regularly? Could it not be said that such a person who chooses to kill people is morally inferior to a person who refrains from killing?

No, because Moral are subjective. Indeed the majority of people will agree what is and isn't moral but other then that, Subjective. And I think there is a flaw...Why is the 'person' killing' other for? And would not the same be said for animals?

If that is so, and if it is correct that killing animals is immoral (which I do believe) then despite the fact that I don't go around announcing it, would it not be true that one who eats meat (encouraging the killing of animals) is morally inferior from one who refrains from eating meat so as not to encourage the killing of animals?

Once again, no. It's all subjective. Besides who are you to go around calling people morally inferior? Does it make you feel better about yourself?

I don't know of anyone who goes around shoving it in people's faces, but since you accuse us of doing so, let's call it like it is.

Hmm, just because YOU don't know anyone that does it, doesn't mean there aren't people who do. If there are people who eat meat that do it, as Madhuri has pointed out form personal experience(and I have seen it to), I have seen vegetarian do the same.

In order to eat meat, you must (either yourself or by proxy) kill a concious being which experiences pain and has personal self interest. That IMO, is murder. If you're perfectly happy with it, it's your business, but don't make up BS about people who quietly choose to make personal sacrifices in order to take a morally higher ground.

I call BS on the 'Murder' part. It's a man-made legal term for the killing a another human, so I'm sorry it never applies to non-Human animals.
And I would like to finish this with a quote I posted earlier:
[FONT=Century Gothic,Verdana,Arial]Life begets death and death begets life. Chaos is the fuel of creation. Something must always be destroyed for something to be created.
Nature is harsh. It is unforgiving. The weak die or are killed by the strong. Life feeds on life. Even the strictest vegan is a plant killer.
-John J. Coughlin- [/FONT]

 

[Madhuri]

also, will all due respect to the problems of consumerism, there are more realistic ways to tackle the issues than going completely vegetarian.

I enjoy being vegetarian so that is not an issue for me.
I did not realise you had written that post so long ago. Sorry.