Animal sacrifice: out of fashion

[rocala]

and it is proven by a supernatural column of fire

My response was to that part quoted. It is not cool.
Nowhere do I state that this alleged column of fire is acceptable proof. I inherently distrust melodrama. A simple message put in my head (or written in the sky) would suffice. But of course we never get sky messages do we?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So, first off, with the Jews, they simply don't sacrifice amymore because there is a mosque in place of where they think their temple for sacrificing should be, right? But, if they had their proper temple, they would resume animal sacrifice. Do I have that right?

Different Jews are going to give different answers. There are Jews that are completely uninterested in rebuilding the temple and resuming sacrifices. I am part of the Jews that DO look forward to the rebuilding of the temple. And also, since it is lawful to do sacrifice on the FOUNDATION of the temple, I think the day will be soon that sacrifices will resume on the temple mount even without the temple.

 

[dybmh]

My response was to that part quoted. It is not cool.
Nowhere do I state that this alleged column of fire is acceptable proof. I inherently distrust melodrama.

OK. So you are removing all the other details. Fair enough.

You see an unexplained column of fire descend from the sky on to a temple which is visible to all for miles. And that is not "cool" to you?

How is this melodrama? maybe I need to look that up to be sure. OK, yeah, I looked it up. Melodrama is exaggerated. I am talking about putting yourself in the story. Imagine that it DID literally happen. Is it silly from inside the story?

A simple message put in my head (or written in the sky) would suffice. But of course we never get sky messages do we?

A message in the sky is basically what we're talking about here. In the story, the Jewish people witness all kinds of earth shattering plagues which refute the egyptian theology that they have come to believe, and render the egytpian gods fake. Then they assemble on Mt. Sinai, God reveals itself to all of them, all at once. God delivers instructions on building a tabernacle, and altars, and gives instructions for making offerings. When it is done properly, a column of fire descends and consumes the offering on the altar. When it is done improperly, a column of fire kills the one making the offering.

From this, a person knows even after many generations "Column of Fire" = "God of the plagues, the redeemer of the Jewish people, God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob."

Today, outside of the story, restarting the sacrifices without some other miracle would be a little silly. But also, if the Jewish people unite and return to Israel, I mean all Jewish people unite, and ALL Jewish people return. And the temple is rebuilt, and the sanhedrin is re-established. That WOULD be a miracle. And I eat meat anyway, is it silly to try it, and make some offerings for a while, and try to get it right and see what happens?

 

[rocala]

Well sorry to disagree @dybmh but I don't have a story, I don't have plans or beliefs based on my race but I do have a morality that says unnecessary killing is wrong. It is that simple and what I wrote was in response to the op.

 

[dybmh]

Well sorry to disagree @dybmh but I don't have a story, I don't have plans or beliefs based on my race but I do have a morality that says unnecessary killing is wrong. It is that simple and what I wrote was in response to the op.

No one is asking you to do it.

The post you replied to was about a supernatural column of fire descending from the sky. I think that would be pretty cool.

 

[Balthazzar]

Religious animal sacrifice seems to be out of practice, at least in my part of the world.

If you read the Old Testament, numerous characters partake in copious amounts of animal scarifice, such as David and Solomon. I was also reading that animal sacrifice use to be a pagan practice as well.

So, first off, with the Jews, they simply don't sacrifice amymore because there is a mosque in place of where they think their temple for sacrificing should be, right? But, if they had their proper temple, they would resume animal sacrifice. Do I have that right?

What about Pagans? Pagan practice was interrupted for centuries so we aren't really sure the exact mechanics of old school paganism. But they use to sacrifice animals, at least according to my book. My book was saying "We DON'T sacrifice animals nowadays!" And it got me thinking... Why?

I would never want to sacrifice animals. Hell, I eventually want to be vegan or vegetarian so I can live a life where I'm not partaking in animal murder.

Perhaps society has evolved more? There are arguments for this. Slavery is a thing of the past and stuff like that. Society would no longer accept mass animal sacrifice to an imagined deity probably. I don't know for sure.

Are humans in a position to dictate what practices are acceptable? Let's say a god wants animal sacrifice, are we in a position to say no? I think so.

It's part of my day to day. I'm not a vegan or vegetarian, so animal sacrifice keeps me fed. It has gone this route before: "Thank you for the O, A." Sometimes It goes a little different. "A, thank you for the O, A (men or wo men) ." Other times it's more to the tune of "AO, thank you for the pie, A." The alpha and omegas of life. So umm yeah, animal sacrifice is still very prevalent where I come from.

 

[Balthazzar]

Beyond that, I don't practice any ritual sacrifices. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner and A due gratitude for the giving for my alpha persona and health, until I become the omega for something else.

 

[rocala]

The post you replied to was about a supernatural column of fire descending from the sky. I think that would be pretty cool.

Well ok. I have been reading your posts for a long time now and have always felt that you are a decent person. So lets just agree to differ here.

 

[dybmh]

Well ok. I have been reading your posts for a long time now and have always felt that you are a decent person. So lets just agree to differ here.

Agreed. Likewise

 

[YoursTrue]

Regarding Jews, some of us would absolutley reinstitute animal sacrifices, and some of us think it's barbaric and hope it never happens again.

I'm in the pro-sacrifice camp. I'm a meat eater, so, why not? For other anti-sacrifice meat eating Jews, I don't think they have any valid reason to prohibit the rest of us from doing sacrifices. But def veggies/vegans make good points and I can understand and appreciate their point of view.

I haven't read all of the posts here, but what is your reason you would sacrifice animals?

 

[YoursTrue]

Take a look at "halal meat" and how it is ritually sacrificed

Thanks for mentioning that. I can look it up as to why the animal is ritually sacrificed. Unless you can mention why, I'd appreciate it, but most likely I can look it up.

 

[dybmh]

I haven't read all of the posts here, but what is your reason you would sacrifice animals?

If I'm killing animals for food anyway, and the Torah commands it, and I can do it in way which is consistent with God's will, and it is causing minimal pain and suffering for the animal, why not?

 

[YoursTrue]

If I'm killing animals for food anyway, and the Torah commands it, and I can do it in way which is consistent with God's will, and it is causing minimal pain and suffering for the animal, why not?

That's interesting. I am not a vegetarian. Maybe in the future I will be but I have nothing against killing animals for food. Some people are deep into killing them mercifully, and I'm all for that, but to be honest the way they keep cows for milk is not the greatest anyway. So I wait for another (better) time for mankind AND animals. They kill each other now anyway. Oh, that includes men killing men, but of course, human flesh is not for sale and I wouldn't eat it anyway. Although some do, I suppose, put in a difficult or maybe not so difficult circumstance. But my question is really about the reason you believe the Torah commands it. To restate it, however, do you believe that the Torah commands it because God told Moses about this, or do you think it was kind of made up by a man said to be Moses?

 

[YoursTrue]

Different Jews are going to give different answers. There are Jews that are completely uninterested in rebuilding the temple and resuming sacrifices. I am part of the Jews that DO look forward to the rebuilding of the temple. And also, since it is lawful to do sacrifice on the FOUNDATION of the temple, I think the day will be soon that sacrifices will resume on the temple mount even without the temple.

The temple represented something more than bricks and mortar. Very interesting. Anyway, it's not there now as it had been in Jerusalem. Just to say.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The temple represented something more than bricks and mortar. Very interesting. Anyway, it's not there now as it had been in Jerusalem. Just to say.

It's fine. Per Hosea, when we don't have the temple, we can offer prayers in lieu of sacrifice. It's not the best, but it works okay.

 

[dybmh]

That's interesting. I am not a vegetarian. Maybe in the future I will be but I have nothing against killing animals for food. Some people are deep into killing them mercifully, and I'm all for that, but to be honest the way they keep cows for milk is not the greatest anyway. So I wait for another (better) time for mankind AND animals. They kill each other now anyway. Oh, that includes men killing men, but of course, human flesh is not for sale and I wouldn't eat it anyway. Although some do, I suppose, put in a difficult or maybe not so difficult circumstance. But my question is really about the reason you believe the Torah commands it. To restate it, however, do you believe that the Torah commands it because God told Moses about this, or do you think it was kind of made up by a man said to be Moses?

I believe that Moses essentially was given lectures by God. And God told Moses to take notes on the lectures and God told Moses exactly what to write in those notes, each word, each letter, each little mark, the spacing of the words and letters, even mispellings, everything came directly from God. Then Moses took those lectures and the notes and taught the Jewish people, and they wrote their own scrolls, and taught each other, correcting each other, Moses was in charge, directing the whole operation. And that's what was happening in the wilderness that entire time.

The written Torah that we have now are those notes that were given by God to Moses, word for word, letter for letter, mark for mark, space for space that can be used to reconstruct the entire lecture given by God to Moses if the teacher knew the Oral Torah, the verbal teachings, that went along with the written words, letters, marks, and spaces.

Just to be clear, extra clear, if you have been reading my posts, there is a question, a problem, that comes up when comparing the LXX and the DSS to the written Torah that we have today. These problems / questions are minor. And I have said, "whoever made those changes opened pandoras box". But it's unknown who made the changes. It's unknown which is the original, and which is the "updated / corrupted" version. I trust the Torah. I think if there was a change made, it was when the LXX was made, or when the DSS were made. Those scribes or translators, maybe they were Jews, I don't know, who made the LXX and the DSS opened pandora's box. That's what I think.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's fine. Per Hosea, when we don't have the temple, we can offer prayers in lieu of sacrifice. It's not the best, but it works okay.

Not a problem for me. The question is, however, why do you think animal sacrifice was directed by God by means of Moses to be offered? Hosea wrote about this if you believe that the one inspiring the writing is God. Yes, sacrifices and offerings were required under the Law, but there was a serious problem with Hosea’s contemporaries. Because clearly there were Israelites who dutifully made such offerings in a showy display of devotion. God sees the heart more than ritualistic form of worship. What do you think pleases Him more? Ritual sacrifice or lovingkindness?

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe that Moses essentially was given lectures by God. And God told Moses to take notes on the lectures and God told Moses exactly what to write in those notes, each word, each letter, each little mark, the spacing of the words and letters, even mispellings, everything came directly from God. The Moses took those lectures and taught the Jewish people, and they wrote their own scrolls, and taught each other, correcting each other, Moses was in charge, directing the whole operation. And that's what was happening in the wilderness that entire time.

The written Torah that we have now are those notes that were given by God to Moses, word for word, letter for letter, mark for mark, space for space that can be used to reconstruct the entire lecture given by God to Moses if the teacher knew the Oral Torah, the verbal teachings, that went along with the written words, letters, marks, and spaces.

Just to be clear, extra clear, if you have been reading my posts, there is a question, a problem, that comes up when comparing the LXX and the DSS to the written Torah that we have today. These problems / questions are minor. And I have said, "whoever made those changes opened pandoras box". But it's unknown who made the changes. It's unknown which is the original, and which is the "updated / corrupted" version. I trust the Torah. I think if there was a change made, it was when the LXX was made, or when the DSS were made. Those scribes or translators, maybe they were Jews, I don't know, who made the LXX and the DSS opened pandora's box. That's what I think.

Yes, I know there are questions and differences in manuscripts. And copies. Perhaps we can discuss this at length later. I do know the Masoretes were fastidious in their copying.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe that Moses essentially was given lectures by God. And God told Moses to take notes on the lectures and God told Moses exactly what to write in those notes, each word, each letter, each little mark, the spacing of the words and letters, even mispellings, everything came directly from God. Then Moses took those lectures and the notes and taught the Jewish people, and they wrote their own scrolls, and taught each other, correcting each other, Moses was in charge, directing the whole operation. And that's what was happening in the wilderness that entire time.

The written Torah that we have now are those notes that were given by God to Moses, word for word, letter for letter, mark for mark, space for space that can be used to reconstruct the entire lecture given by God to Moses if the teacher knew the Oral Torah, the verbal teachings, that went along with the written words, letters, marks, and spaces.

Just to be clear, extra clear, if you have been reading my posts, there is a question, a problem, that comes up when comparing the LXX and the DSS to the written Torah that we have today. These problems / questions are minor. And I have said, "whoever made those changes opened pandoras box". But it's unknown who made the changes. It's unknown which is the original, and which is the "updated / corrupted" version. I trust the Torah. I think if there was a change made, it was when the LXX was made, or when the DSS were made. Those scribes or translators, maybe they were Jews, I don't know, who made the LXX and the DSS opened pandora's box. That's what I think.

Sorry to say that I cannot read all of the posts but am responding to what I can. Thanks.

 

[dybmh]

Sorry to say that I cannot read all of the posts but am responding to what I can. Thanks.

No problem, I just wanted to be clear.