Another Baptist minister bites the dust- gets caught

[Shadow Wolf]

I mean even by your own statement that you no longer believe, means none of it is true so you can't be 'ex'. Correct?

I am an ex (I prefer apostate) because I did believe. I dont anymore. Even Paul says people can stray and not be saved anymore. Galatians 5 says I have fallen from grace, with Paul writing in 1 Corinthians that he "drives and trains" his body due to "fear that.. [he] shall be disqualified."

Again, I am not trying to make you Christian if you're not

You haven't been. But you have been doubting I was a Christian. But I was. I fully believed, accepted Christ, repented, baptized, and so on. Eventually I renounced it.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I am an ex (I prefer apostate) because I did believe. I dont anymore. Even Paul says people can stray and not be saved anymore. Galatians 5 says I have fallen from grace, with Paul writing in 1 Corinthians that he "drives and trains" his body due to "fear that.. [he] shall be disqualified."

You haven't been. But you have been doubting I was a Christian. But I was. I fully believed, accepted Christ, repented, baptized, and so on. Eventually I renounced it.

The belief that one can be a Christian and then decide to not be, I do not see in the Scriptures. That a believer can fall from grace, yes. (Gal. 5:2-4) That a believer can be disqualified, yes. (1 Cor. 9:23-27) But neither of these speaks to a loss of salvation. Falling from grace means the believer has placed himself under the Law. Being a castaway means disqualification from running the race to obtain a crown or reward. It has no affect on ones eternal salvation.

I know there are many verses in the Bible that are used to support that a believer can lose their salvation, but when looked at thoroughly I believe they do not say that.

Yes, I doubt that one can be a Christian and then decide to not be, and such a decision causes God to remove their name from the Book of Life. If one believes, that faith moves God to give birth to their spirit. Born-again. The faith that one had that accomplished that, was a gift from God. It came from God. (Eph. 2:8)

So, what would God have to do with the born-again spirit, that is of Him, that does as you describe? As I said, it just doesn't work, to me.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As I said, it just doesn't work, to me.

Then with your lack of trying to understand, along with other behaviors you have displayed, I shall declare your Christianity doesnt work to me because I don't recognize you by your good fruits.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You need a lot of help with your Biblical theology if that's what you think.

Sure! If by "theology" you mean "make up stuff because you are embarrassed what is actually written in the bible".

Except that I'm not embarrassed by the bible-- I'm disgusted by it. It's all the proof anyone needs, that if god is real? It is maliciously, sadistically evil---- simply because the bible exists in the first place.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Then with your lack of trying to understand, along with other behaviors you have displayed, I shall declare your Christianity doesnt work to me because I don't recognize you by your good fruits.

And, without elaborating on (John 15:4), I can understand that. That can be a legitimate observation. But on the other hand I cannot see how the other could be possible for the reasons I gave.

In other words, the Spirit of God is eternal. It is that Spirit that gives life to the spirit of the one exercising faith. Born-again. Nothing is ever indicated that that spirit would die. Which would have to happen if what you are saying is true.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Spartan]

Sure! If by "theology" you mean "make up stuff because you are embarrassed what is actually written in the bible".

Except that I'm not embarrassed by the bible-- I'm disgusted by it. It's all the proof anyone needs, that if god is real? It is maliciously, sadistically evil---- simply because the bible exists in the first place.

Like I said, you need a lot of help with your theology.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In the USA? Since Xianity is the majority? Pretty much, yeah. In other places? Not so much, as christianity is not the majority. Not ironically? Child molestation is also lower... coincidence?



Except that never happens in Real Life.



How very "Christian" of you... not.

Jesus would be so proud.... Aryan Jesus, that is.

To be fair the lower rates of child abuse by other religions could be due to lower reporting rates. Child abuse seems to be worse now since people are not as ashamed to report it, but it apparently has always existed. Try reading Rousseau's Candide. Though no specific priests are named it is obvious that it did exist at that time too.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sure! If by "theology" you mean "make up stuff because you are embarrassed what is actually written in the bible".

Except that I'm not embarrassed by the bible-- I'm disgusted by it. It's all the proof anyone needs, that if god is real? It is maliciously, sadistically evil---- simply because the bible exists in the first place.

People that read the Bible literally tend to have the poorest understanding of that book.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Like I said, you need a lot of help with your theology.

If by "help" you mean "learning how to LIE about the bible"?

I'll pass.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

People that read the Bible literally tend to have the poorest understanding of that book.

How else is there to read it? IF it is a Magic Divine Book?

IF it has nothing at all to do with Magic? Then sure-- it's a book of poetry, or Legends, or Stories Of Old, then yeah, it's full of allegory and whatnot.

But that's not what theists claim, is it? They claim it has Magic Properties. As such, it's pretty good proof there cannot possibly be any gods who give a rat's patoot-- to have permitted the bible to exist, and to become the Magic Worshiped Idol that it is now? Shows if gods exist, they don't really care about people. At all.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

To be fair the lower rates of child abuse by other religions could be due to lower reporting rates. Child abuse seems to be worse now since people are not as ashamed to report it, but it apparently has always existed. Try reading Rousseau's Candide. Though no specific priests are named it is obvious that it did exist at that time too.

Yes, that's a fair assessment. I was referring to mostly non-religious countries in direct contrast to the USA, where child abuse really is lower all around.

People are happier too, over all.

What'ya know? In every one of these mostly NOT religious countries? They seem to have universal health care....! And no mass gun-related shooting, either.

I do not know the cause and effect for these observed phenomena. But I'm willing to guess that NOT worrying about going bankrupt because someone in your family has a major medical expense? Helps with these issues.

Isn't it Ironic? The USA is home to a big fraction of the world's Christians. But has the worst health care system on the planet, among the so-called First World Nations.

And by worst- I mean more US Citizens file bankruptcy due to medical costs, than anywhere else on earth.

But Jesus specifically commanded his followers to minister to the sick... apparently, Jesus should ALSO have mentioned DO NOT DO IT FOR THE MONEY, JOEL OSTEEN.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How else is there to read it? IF it is a Magic Divine Book?

IF it has nothing at all to do with Magic? Then sure-- it's a book of poetry, or Legends, or Stories Of Old, then yeah, it's full of allegory and whatnot.

But that's not what theists claim, is it? They claim it has Magic Properties. As such, it's pretty good proof there cannot possibly be any gods who give a rat's patoot-- to have permitted the bible to exist, and to become the Magic Worshiped Idol that it is now? Shows if gods exist, they don't really care about people. At all.

I know. Ultimately the Bible is largely self refuting. But there are some good morals in it. Many of the teachings of Jesus are quite good. The problem with the Bible is so much of the evil that comes with it. The God of the Old Testament is about as evil as a God can be. Incompetent, blaming his own creation for his errors, punishing them for his error and then wiping all but a few out is just a beginning of the evils of the OT. The Paulism that arose from the New Testament is not much better.

All Christians cherry pick the Bible. I merely advocate some rather extreme cherry picking.

 

[Spartan]

If by "help" you mean "learning how to LIE about the bible"?
.

No, Robert, by understanding it, which you don't.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, Robert, by understanding it, which you don't.

What makes you think that he does not understand the Bible? If anything those that understand the Bible the worst are Bible literalists.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I know. Ultimately the Bible is largely self refuting. But there are some good morals in it. Many of the teachings of Jesus are quite good. The problem with the Bible is so much of the evil that comes with it. The God of the Old Testament is about as evil as a God can be. Incompetent, blaming his own creation for his errors, punishing them for his error and then wiping all but a few out is just a beginning of the evils of the OT. The Paulism that arose from the New Testament is not much better.

All Christians cherry pick the Bible. I merely advocate some rather extreme cherry picking.

Really, Jesus wasn't any superior to Buddha, IMO. They both advocate for being humble, not being materialistic (placing ownership of stuff above all else), pacifist, try to do no harm, etc.

Only Buddha was something like 70% less supernatural-saturated fat.

But yes, I agree with your assessment, above. I would not care one bit, except that so many people think they have the right to force the very ugly bible-- worse-- their cherry-picked version of it--- onto everyone on the planet.

*sigh*

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

No, Robert, by understanding it, which you don't.

Who's "robert"? Are you talking to pixies, now? And I understand what is written in the very immoral bible.

I don't twist the words to the exact opposite of what is written, in contrast to? you?

Could be.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Really, Jesus wasn't any superior to Buddha, IMO. They both advocate for being humble, not being materialistic (placing ownership of stuff above all else), pacifist, try to do no harm, etc.

Only Buddha was something like 70% less supernatural-saturated fat.

But yes, I agree with your assessment, above. I would not care one bit, except that so many people think they have the right to force the very ugly bible-- worse-- their cherry-picked version of it--- onto everyone on the planet.

*sigh*

Most of the problems that we see from Christians today are not those that follow the teachings of Jesus, but rather those that follow Paul. Paul may have been a Christian, but he appeared to have his own personal demons. His writings indicate that he may have been a homosexual living in a homophobic culture. Instead of blaming the culture he blames himself and of course advocates for the worst possible punishment for his own personal desires. Neither Jesus nor the Buddha appeared to have advocated hate. And yes, I agree that their teachings are similar, but followers can always distort the beliefs of those that they follow. Sometimes with rather dire results.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

SHouldnt the Baptist church have to check the background and find out of there are any prior arrests before someone is hired?

They'd have to feel that pedophilia is a sin. Considering the lame yet valid excuse is that adult men in the bible married girls barely into puberty, they're not in a rush to prevent it. They think they have every right to do it.

Just remember a Biblical day can be a thousand years.

And lots of people become victims while God's on pause.

 

[Spartan]

Really, Jesus wasn't any superior to Buddha, IMO. They both advocate for being humble, not being materialistic (placing ownership of stuff above all else), pacifist, try to do no harm, etc.

*sigh*

<sigh>

Oh, Buddha raised the dead, did he? Resurrected from the dead?

 

[Subduction Zone]

<sigh>

Oh, Buddha raised the dead, did he? Resurrected from the dead?

Different religion, different mythos. If I understand correctly he transcended death. I am sure that if I am wrong there will be corrections and I will gladly accept them.