Another Baptist minister bites the dust- gets caught

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Funny, then, because when I decided to not believe in Jehovah anymore its when confusion cleared up. When I took myself from the hand of Christ and removed myself from his flock, I found a clarity that I never would have found otherwise.

My statement was in light of the questions and understanding of God's will, and knowledge of God in ones life, be it for judgement or reward.

With your statement, "when I decided to not believe", in your mind, just removes God from the picture.

I can't argue with your statement as it simply comes from you. But there are many questions involving your statement. First is how do you decide to believe or not believe. In other words, do you believe in God and Christ but reject Him. Or do you just not believe?

Second, your statement that you "took myself from the hand of Christ", nice wording. But it is contrary to what Christ has said as I'm sure you are aware of. (John 10:26-28) And guess Who I am going to believe.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Isaiah 45:7.... the above is 100% proof YOU NEVER ACTUALLY READ YOUR OWN BOOK.

Ironic, really: The bible is A-OKAY WITH SLAVERY: Exodus 21-- which ought to bring warm feelings to you, considering your pro-slavery banner...

I am aware of (Is. 45:7). And God does create evil in the world of man for various reasons. Sometimes judgement, sometimes for testing. (Amos 3:6) (Job 42:11) God uses the evil, but He is not evil.

Evil as a source comes from the angelic being satan.

Yes, God laid out the conditions for slavery. I have no problem with it. Slavery is but the natural condition of man.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I not only blew you away before, and just now as well? I do not fear your RACISM one bit.

For I'm not a target of your seething HATE-- I'm not a Person Of Color, you see...

The bible is not only pro-slavery? Exodus 21. It is also pro-Racism too: God's Chosen People is racist.

If you want to discuss what the Confederate flag represents, go to the "Nikki Haley" thread. I have several posts there that explain it and will gladly discuss it with you there.

Because you refuse to go there indicates as I said, you can't cover your ***. You spout many things, yet offer nothing.

I don't care if you're a person of color or not.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No, that's your disingenuous claim. God wants people who can look at evil and make a free will decision to reject it or engage in it. You can't really know what good is until you compare it to evil. The people you create wouldn't be able to discern the difference.

Again, God could create people who can discern the difference, and yet choose good every time. There's no reason a God that is all powerful couldn't do that and still imbue life with free will.

And why does God "want" anything? If God has desire, then God cannot possibly be omniscient.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Yes, it is true according to my beliefs, which are based on the Bible.

1) No, it's not true. You can't believe in the idea of salvation through grace and the idea that there will always be consequences. They are contradictory ideas. If somebody commits an evil act but are saved by grace, there can be no negative consequences.

2) They're based on your particular interpretation of the Bible. Which, as I have clearly demonstrated, is flawed and contradictory.

Your opinions are based on you. Mine are based on the Bible the Word of God. You're free to call God anything you want. Means nothing. What is it based on? You, and your unbelief.

Which is superior to your belief, because I actually have good reason for it. Your reasons are nonsensical and contradictory.

God is not defined or known by human logic which is flawed. Sorry.

So then you cannot know God or ascribe any attribute to them, including their alleged word.

No, you know nothing of God. Due to the cross, mercy and justness meet.

That makes no sense. Mercy is the suspension of justice. They are contradictory concepts.

Plenty of wrong in children being molested.

Well, I'm glad you finally admit it.

Plenty of wrong everywhere in the world. Don't worry. He is fixing it. But, you won't like it when He does.

You're starting to sound like some kind of extremist.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

1) No, it's not true. You can't believe in the idea of salvation through grace and the idea that there will always be consequences. They are contradictory ideas. If somebody commits an evil act but are saved by grace, there can be no negative consequences.

2) They're based on your particular interpretation of the Bible. Which, as I have clearly demonstrated, is flawed and contradictory.


Which is superior to your belief, because I actually have good reason for it. Your reasons are nonsensical and contradictory.


So then you cannot know God or ascribe any attribute to them, including their alleged word.


That makes no sense. Mercy is the suspension of justice. They are contradictory concepts.


Well, I'm glad you finally admit it.


You're starting to sound like some kind of extremist.

You don't know what you're talking about. Salvation by grace does not mean there are not consequences in what a believer does. It doesn't take away his salvation, but there are consequences for what he does. You have demonstrated only that you don't know anything about the Bible.

As I said, your beliefs are based on you. Mine are based on the Bible. You can follow yours all you like. I will follow the Bible's.

No, you cannot know God through your reason and logic. Your reason and logic are flawed, and they offer no entrance into the knowledge of God.

It doesn't matter if you think it makes sense or not. What matters is what God says about it.

I have never said otherwise.

An extremist? No, just an observation. You squawk about injustice in the world. Of course it is only what you call injustice. When God brings an end to evil in the world, it will be all of it. And as I said, you won't like it then either.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You don't know what you're talking about. Salvation by grace does not mean there are not consequences in what a believer does. It doesn't take away his salvation, but there are consequences for what he does. You have demonstrated only that you don't know anything about the Bible.

Then what are the consequences for a child molester who gets away with molesting children but then is saved and attains salvation on their death bed?

As I said, your beliefs are based on you. Mine are based on the Bible. You can follow yours all you like. I will follow the Bible's.

Correction: Follow your interpretation of the Bible.

And I think I've demonstrated more reliability than your book.

No, you cannot know God through your reason and logic. Your reason and logic are flawed, and they offer no entrance into the knowledge of God.

Then you cannot make any claim about God whatsoever, and your entire belief system is baseless.

Either God can be comprehended, and your book is in some way indicative of the ways in which God is comprehendable, or God is completely exempt from comprehension and logic and not a single thing you believe about them - including the things in your book - can be considered reliable.

It doesn't matter if you think it makes sense or not. What matters is what God says about it.

What you think God says is irrelevant. Especially if you think God isn't logical and can't be comprehended, because that makes anything written or said about them doubly irrelevant.

An extremist? No, just an observation. You squawk about injustice in the world. Of course it is only what you call injustice. When God brings an end to evil in the world, it will be all of it. And as I said, you won't like it then either.

And, as I have repeatedly told you, you probably won't either. If God is truly just, then chances are your theology is going to be one of the evil things disposed of.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Then what are the consequences for a child molester who gets away with molesting children but then is saved and attains salvation on their death bed?


Correction: Follow your interpretation of the Bible.

And I think I've demonstrated more reliability than your book.


Then you cannot make any claim about God whatsoever, and your entire belief system is baseless.

Either God can be comprehended, and your book is in some way indicative of the ways in which God is comprehendable, or God is completely exempt from comprehension and logic and not a single thing you believe about them - including the things in your book - can be considered reliable.


What you think God says is irrelevant. Especially if you think God isn't logical and can't be comprehended, because that makes anything written or said about them doubly irrelevant.


And, as I have repeatedly told you, you probably won't either. If God is truly just, then chances are your theology is going to be one of the evil things disposed of.

You dream up scenario's that are extreme at best. There are very few death bed salvation experiences period. If one is a child molester, the idea that he seeks God on his death bed is far fetched. If he was already a Christian, then later became a child molester, then there are consequences he will face in this life, as we have already talked about. But, yes, he is saved.

My interpretation of the Bible is still me following the Bible. You are still following you. You demonstrate only to yourself and others who believe like you.

No, the belief system is the only way to know God. It is by faith. If that is not there, then you are just like yourself.... in the ocean of reason and logic and not getting anywhere as to the knowledge of God.

Yes, it is irrelevant to you. I understand that. What God says is not irrelevant to me.

Oh He is just. And, no, I look forward to the day.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I just told you it is not all done in secret. We have the revelation from God in the Bible. He shows what He is doing from beginning to end.

Wrong. It IS done in secret.

The moment you say a tornado/hurricane/tsunami/financial-misfortune/"bad-luck" is God's wrath upon a person/people, he's affected a "punishment" in secret. He didn't let those people know what they did wrong... didn't come to them and explain why they were being punished. ANY parent doing the same things would be negligent in the extreme... but it's okay when God does it, right? I gave you very specific, and succinct examples of how I could behave in the exact same way that you claim God does in this area - the $5 bill left on the street and the spiders in the bed. NOTHING God supposedly may be doing in this world as reward or punishment to a person is directly correlated to the bad or good deed. NOTHING. It isn't obvious, it isn't all written in some book. What a crock of horse manure.

The moment you don't believe is where your confusion begins.

Please spare me.

 

[Spartan]

Again, God could create people who can discern the difference, and yet choose good every time.

Pre-programmed robots who could only do good.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Pre-programmed robots who could only do good.

Why do you think they would be "pre-programmed robots"?

Are you suggesting God is incapable of creating beings that have free will and yet cannot do evil?

 

[Spartan]

Is that why real violence upsets me? Is that why the suffering of others bothers me?

Do your sins upset you?

 

[Spartan]

Why do you think they would be "pre-programmed robots"?

Because they can only do good. No free will to do otherwise.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Because they can only do good. No free will to do otherwise.

Why won't you answer the important question? Is God incapable of creating beings that have free will but cannot do evil?

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Wrong. It IS done in secret.

The moment you say a tornado/hurricane/tsunami/financial-misfortune/"bad-luck" is God's wrath upon a person/people, he's affected a "punishment" in secret. He didn't let those people know what they did wrong... didn't come to them and explain why they were being punished. ANY parent doing the same things would be negligent in the extreme... but it's okay when God does it, right? I gave you very specific, and succinct examples of how I could behave in the exact same way that you claim God does in this area - the $5 bill left on the street and the spiders in the bed. NOTHING God supposedly may be doing in this world as reward or punishment to a person is directly correlated to the bad or good deed. NOTHING. It isn't obvious, it isn't all written in some book. What a crock of horse manure.

Please spare me.

I have already told you that God is doing much more than we know. We are only given what He has revealed. As for natural disasters, they can be a direct act of God. Or, they can be the result of the natural causes in God's creation.

No believer can say for sure that it was sent for judgement by God. It may well have, but we cannot know. God doesn't tell us. We leave those things to him. But, we do know that God does bring judgement upon people on the earth. Just as we know He brings testing also. We don't always know which it is. We trust Him as He does what is good and just.

In other words, that which has been revealed to us to know, we can know. That which has not, we can't. See (Deut. 29:29).

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I have already told you that God is doing much more than we know. We are only given what He has revealed. As for natural disasters, they can be a direct act of God. Or, they can be the result of the natural causes in God's creation.

No believer can say for sure that it was sent for judgement by God. It may well have, but we cannot know. God doesn't tell us. We leave those things to him. But, we do know that God does bring judgement upon people on the earth. Just as we know He brings testing also. We don't always know which it is. We trust Him as He does what is good and just.

In other words, that which has been revealed to us to know, we can know. That which has not, we can't. See (Deut. 29:29).

And I am saying that this is bad business. This is a terrible way to run things. Just terrible. If you are looking to bring up into adulthood/responsibility or reform someone, you don't just SAY NOTHING, SPANK THEM, AND THEN WALK AWAY.

Is that how you raise/raised/would-raise your own kids? If not, then why not? It's good enough for God apparently, right? I thought everything God did was "perfect?" No? It's dumb? Yep. That's what I thought too.

 

[sooda]

You don't know what you're talking about. Salvation by grace does not mean there are not consequences in what a believer does. It doesn't take away his salvation, but there are consequences for what he does. You have demonstrated only that you don't know anything about the Bible.

As I said, your beliefs are based on you. Mine are based on the Bible. You can follow yours all you like. I will follow the Bible's.

No, you cannot know God through your reason and logic. Your reason and logic are flawed, and they offer no entrance into the knowledge of God.

It doesn't matter if you think it makes sense or not. What matters is what God says about it.

I have never said otherwise.

An extremist? No, just an observation. You squawk about injustice in the world. Of course it is only what you call injustice. When God brings an end to evil in the world, it will be all of it. And as I said, you won't like it then either.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Jesus used parables—short stories with hidden messages—in his teachings....NOT science.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do your sins upset you?

I dont believe in sin, so no. I just have a regular moral compass, and its working just fine.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

With your statement, "when I decided to not believe", in your mind, just removes God from the picture.

I removed Jehovah from the picture. That is a crucial point to clarify.

Second, your statement that you "took myself from the hand of Christ", nice wording. But it is contrary to what Christ has said as I'm sure you are aware of. (John 10:26-28) And guess Who I am going to believ

Because its so much easier and assuring fo just dismiss someone as not having really been a Christian that accept true believers do sometimes turn apostate.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

What are you talking about? I actually have a formal education in Biblical Theology.

Why do you think God created evil?

You got this wrong-- your bible specifically describes god as having creating evil.

Me? I think your god is 100% myth, as is your bible. But your bible is quite clear about it's god being the sole source of evil in the world...

Moreover? It's immoral to use a Scape Goat anyway... an evil concept.

Even worse: The whole concept of infinite torture? Is 100% pure evil-- nothing a mortal human can do is worthy of infinite suffering. Nothing. Therefore? Bible's god is evil.