Another Baptist minister bites the dust- gets caught

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

As I said, that makes God exceedingly stupid or weak.


So then you must believe that not all child molesters will be punished, and some will even be granted eternity in heaven and never face any negative repercussions for their crimes.


I imagine your religion will go with it, then.

I assume you won't like that.


And God isn't powerful enough to deal with it?

Is he encumbered with paperwork?


Sure doesn't seem like that. If you heard that I was aware of a child being molested, and instead of doing anything about it I just sat and watched and let the molester go free and, on his deathbed, told him I would tell his family and the police what he did unless he paid me some money, and he does so, so I don't tell anyone - would you say I was complicit in what that child molester did?


Then he is responsible for children being molested, and is immoral.


So you worship an immoral agent.

Gotcha.

No, God is in the process of stopping all evil.

All who come to Christ are saved by faith. If a believer commits sin after being born-again, it must be confessed and repented of. If the believer continues in his sin, then judgement of God will fall on him here, but that does not pertain to eternal life. The Christians sins fall on Jesus Christ. So there will be lots of bad people in Heaven. And few good ones.

No, you imagine wrong. And homosexuality will be dealt with when God puts an end to all the evil in the world. As for now it itself serves as a judgement from God. Make no mistake, I look forward to the day when God puts an end to evil.

God is dealing with it.

God is responsible as it is His plan to do away with evil. He is not moral or immoral. He is just in what He does. God is not complicit just because it is His plan to do away with evil. A general is not complicit with the enemy when he develops a battle plan.

No, I worship a just God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Nope. A man cannot have free will and not be allowed to do evil. He would be a pre-programmed robot.

That makes no sense. I'm God, I can create anything, including a man with no concept of evil yet has free will.

See the edited post above to illustrate this.

Again, if you're claiming that it's IMPOSSIBLE for God to create a being incapable of doing evil that still has free will, you are necessarily saying that God is not all-powerful.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No, God is in the process of stopping all evil.

By letting it happen with no consequences.

Great.

All who come to Christ are saved by faith. If a believer commits sin after being born-again, it must be confessed and repented of. If the believer continues in his sin, then judgement of God will fall on him here, but that does not pertain to eternal life. The Christians sins fall on Jesus Christ. So there will be lots of bad people in Heaven. And few good ones.

So God doesn't reward or punish anybody justly, then, and punishment is not always forthcoming to those who do evil.

Thank you for completely undermining your own theology.

No, you imagine wrong. And homosexuality will be dealt with when God puts an end to all the evil in the world. As for now it itself serves as a judgement from God. Make no mistake, I look forward to the day when God puts an end to evil.

Which will no doubt include your beliefs.

Prove me wrong.

God is dealing with it.

Very badly, it seems. Your God is incompetent.

God is responsible as it is His plan to do away with evil. He is not moral or immoral.

False. Your God is clearly immoral. A being that is capable of preventing evil but chooses not to is immoral.

He is just in what He does. God is not complicit just because it is His plan to do away with evil. A general is not complicit with the enemy when he develops a battle plan.

No, I worship a just God.

You just said that God is not moral, so how can God be just?

You also believe in salvation through grace, which is inherently an act of mercy, which is the willing suspension of justice. So God is not always just.

Your theology is falling apart. You're making this incredibly easy for me.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

This, right here, that you said is so perfect. Yes! Don't say it again... because I don't believe in The Bible. That's great, great stuff. Since I do not believe, The Bible becomes useless as a talking point between us. This is as it should be in all dealings with non-Christians. You should use this as your go-to mode of behavior. Leave The Bible out of it. It is not relevant for those who do not believe. Not relevant.

I said it to you because you claimed you knew the Bible. So why should there be an again. You should know it. Because you have to ask, shows you didn't know it. Then if I show you, you just say you don't believe the Bible.

I don't leave the Bible out of it, as it is why I believe what I believe. I will base my statements and answers on the Bible. Don't ask me to show you where in the Bible I get it as when I show you, you just say you don't believe it.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE to be proudly displaying a FLAG THAT SUPPORTS RACISM.

That is the SOLE reason for it's existence. Your EXCUSES do not fly.

No it's not. Did you read the post's I gave you?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I know-- racists such as yourself, don't care about pesky things like Human Rights.



And I absolutely, definitively, proved how RACIST your gods are!

BUT YOU DON'T CARE.

Actually you first showed your ignorance of God and Christ. Then I corrected you. Then you got on your high horse.

Yes, I don't care.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I said it to you because you claimed you knew the Bible. So why should there be an again. You should know it. Because you have to ask, shows you didn't know it. Then if I show you, you just say you don't believe the Bible.

I've read The Bible, so I know/remember what it SAYS in certain spots. But what it says is so rarely what Christians say it means, or there's all sorts of hoops that supposedly need jumped through before you actually reach the "true meaning" of the words. Another reason I don't think it is very worthwhile. It's just too convoluted. Again... apparently. In actuality it may not be. It may just be that Christians are unnecessarily confounding its messages in order to try and protect it, or to make it work toward their own agenda(s), etc.

I don't leave the Bible out of it, as it is why I believe what I believe. I will base my statements and answers on the Bible. Don't ask me to show you where in the Bible I get it as when I show you, you just say you don't believe it.

Fine for you. Believe it to your heart's content. But you're absolutely right... whenever you use it to justify ANYTHING you have said to me, I will simply tell you that I do not believe The Bible. This will remain a simple fact in any dealings with me.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Then anything He does, He does in secret, and with a simple thought experiment I can easily display why this is not an intelligent (nor good) way to go about things.

Let's say my son does well in school, getting straight A grades. Instead of congratulating him verbally, and making sure any rewards I give him are directly tied to the act of his that I approved of, I instead deposit a $5 bill on the road for him to find on his walk to school the next day. No words are exchanged, he has no idea that I even approved of his good grades, because I said nothing about it. Does this make me a "good" parent?​

And the converse - punishment instead of reward. Let's say I see my daughter smoking with friends from afar, and I disapprove. Instead of confronting her and letting he know what it is I disapprove of before dealing out some form of punishment, I instead decide to plant live spiders in her bed that night before she goes to sleep. Again, no words are exchanged on the subject, and she can have literally no idea why the spiders are in her bed. Does this sound like something that a "good" parent would do?​

The above two examples are basically mirrors to how your claim paints God's activities as a dealer of reward/punishment. If God exists and is acting in the way you describe, then it is done in secret, and He never actually informs you of your "crime." He would only ever have to expect that you could draw your own conclusions... but will you get it right? Will you know the actual behavior you are being punished for with that tornado that rips your house apart? Will you know what you are being praised for when you get that good job or when it stops raining at that perfect moment so that you can walk out to your car from the store without getting wet?

The Christian has the Bible to know God and His will. God has revealed much in the Bible. So we can know. But we do not know all of what God is doing. He is suppressing evil much more than we know, and more than what He reveals. It is bigger than the individual.

Good-Old-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

By letting it happen with no consequences.

Great.


So God doesn't reward or punish anybody justly, then, and punishment is not always forthcoming to those who do evil.

Thank you for completely undermining your own theology.


Which will no doubt include your beliefs.

Prove me wrong.


Very badly, it seems. Your God is incompetent.


False. Your God is clearly immoral. A being that is capable of preventing evil but chooses not to is immoral.


You just said that God is not moral, so how can God be just?

You also believe in salvation through grace, which is inherently an act of mercy, which is the willing suspension of justice. So God is not always just.

Your theology is falling apart. You're making this incredibly easy for me.

There are always consequences.

Justness is meeted out at the cross. For the Christian, his sins are there. God is just in justifying the Christian.

No, it won't include my beliefs as mine are based on the Word of God.

Your judgement of God as immoral means nothing. God is just in what He does. He is just in declaring the one who places faith in Christ as saved because justness was meeted out at the cross. Without the Cross He could not be just.

Nothing wrong with my theology. Nothing wrong with God's plan.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I've read The Bible, so I know/remember what it SAYS in certain spots. But what it says is so rarely what Christians say it means, or there's all sorts of hoops that supposedly need jumped through before you actually reach the "true meaning" of the words. Another reason I don't think it is very worthwhile. It's just too convoluted. Again... apparently. In actuality it may not be. It may just be that Christians are unnecessarily confounding its messages in order to try and protect it, or to make it work toward their own agenda(s), etc.

Fine for you. Believe it to your heart's content. But you're absolutely right... whenever you use it to justify ANYTHING you have said to me, I will simply tell you that I do not believe The Bible. This will remain a simple fact in any dealings with me.

Well and good. You don't believe it.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There are always consequences.

You've already said that you believe in salvation by grace, so that's not true according to your own beliefs.

Justness is meeted out at the cross. For the Christian, his sins are there. God is just in justifying the Christian.

If God is just, then God cannot be merciful. The two concepts are contradictory.

No, it won't include my beliefs as mine are based on the Word of God.

Obviously not. The God you're describing is an idiotic bundle of contradictions.

More likely you've been taken in by his opposite. Seems like his modus operandi.

Your judgement of God as immoral means nothing.

It means every bit as much as your judgement of God as anything. I am as free to call God an immoral idiot than you are to call them neither moral nor immoral and just.

The difference is that my ideas of God are consistent and based on logic. Yours are contradictory, nonsensical and based on interpretation of doctrine.

God is just in what He does. He is just in declaring the one who places faith in Christ as saved because justness was meeted out at the cross. Without the Cross He could not be just.

Then he cannot be merciful, and salvation through grace is a false doctrine.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You cannot have a God who is just - punishing people where appropriate - and is simultaneously merciful - suspending punishment even when appropriate.

Is your God inconstant?

Nothing wrong with my theology. Nothing wrong with God's plan.

So nothing wrong with children being molested, then?

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Out of interest, I went and read the thread he brings up as his argument against the claim that flag supports racism and slavery, and it's hilarious.

His argument is basically "The south owned slaves and wanted to keep them because they were financially profitable. The north wanted to financially decimate the south and were afraid they were going to secede, and that's why they suddenly became anti-slavery to destroy the south's economy. Thus, the war wasn't about slavery".

Or, to put it more simply:

"The war wasn't about slavery, it was about the south really wanting to own slaves."

SOURCE: Nikki Haley

I mean, we can see the flaw in that argument, right?

Take it over to the "Nikki Haley" thread and lets discuss it? Scared?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

The Christian has the Bible to know God and His will. God has revealed much in the Bible. So we can know. But we do not know all of what God is doing. He is suppressing evil much more than we know, and more than what He reveals. It is bigger than the individual.

Good-Old-Rebel

Doesn't excuse the fact that anything God does, it is all done in secret... giving those who are failing no useful feedback as to what they are doing wrong. Unless God is supposedly acting through all of the rest of us - but then, what about "free will?" Wouldn't that be co-opted when God decided to use one or another of us as a tool for punishing a transgressor? And, as a transgressor, how could we tell the difference between our fellow man exacting some punishment or vengeance upon us, and it being "the will of God" that such is happening?

You see, all these confusing questions with no good answers GO AWAY the moment you no longer believe in God. It all becomes so clear and simple. That's where I am at. None of this weird, "God works in mysterious ways" noise you have going on. And I don't need it. I don't need a bunch of useless complications to my outlook. Complications that have no detectable basis in reality. It is just all so STRANGE.

 

[Spartan]

That makes no sense. I'm God, I can create anything, including a man with no concept of evil yet has free will.

See the edited post above to illustrate this.

Again, if you're claiming that it's IMPOSSIBLE for God to create a being incapable of doing evil that still has free will, you are necessarily saying that God is not all-powerful.

No, that's your disingenuous claim. God wants people who can look at evil and make a free will decision to reject it or engage in it. You can't really know what good is until you compare it to evil. The people you create wouldn't be able to discern the difference.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Nope. A man cannot have free will and not be allowed to do evil. He would be a pre-programmed robot.

Do Angels have free will? It seems that they must-- else none could have rebelled.

Yet-- most seem fully incapable of doing Evil.

hmmmm.... it appears your claim is false.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

No, God is in the process of stopping all evil.

WHEN? According that bible you never read? God is the *source* of all evil-- having created it in the first place...

ooops!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

No, that's your disingenuous claim. God wants people who can look at evil and make a free will decision to reject it or engage in it. .

Really? What about Angels-- who essentially cannot do evil (except for that one time) but clearly have Free Will.

You can't really know what good is until you compare it to evil..

Absolutely false. You don't need to actually go out and murder someone, to understand the consequences of doing so, including the emotional cost.

Moreover? By age 3, children have an innate understanding of What Is Fair-- they understand that Special Favorites is Unfair. They don't need lessons in being treated unfairly-- they can recognize it for what it is.

This appears to be a Primate Ability-- primate studies show that they all pretty much have a sense of Fairness.

The people you create wouldn't be able to discern the difference.

False. See above.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Take it over to the "Nikki Haley" thread and lets discuss it? Scared?

Good-Ole-Rebel

No. You've been called out-- and shown to be disingenuous-- yet you persist in your display of a Racist Banner.

Scared? no. Bored and not a little disgusted? Absolutely.

You can lead a Racist to Empathy, but you cannot make them actually Feel Empathy.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Actually you first showed your ignorance of God and Christ. .

Nope. You screaming "Nunn Uhh" isn't showing anyone anything.

Then I corrected you. .

Liar. Typical Racist.

 

[Spartan]

Really? What about Angels-- who essentially cannot do evil (except for that one time) but clearly have Free Will.

Satan was an angel and he did evil, along with 1/3 of the angels in heaven who followed him.

Absolutely false. You don't need to actually go out and murder someone, to understand the consequences of doing so, including the emotional cost.

Moreover? By age 3, children have an innate understanding of What Is Fair-- they understand that Special Favorites is Unfair. They don't need lessons in being treated unfairly-- they can recognize it for what it is.

This appears to be a Primate Ability-- primate studies show that they all pretty much have a sense of Fairness.

False. See above.

False. There's liberals and others today who don't know it's wrong to butcher the innocent unborn.