Another School Shooting

[Father Heathen]

But then you have to handle that awkward moment when you buy a gun to protect your family and statistically make them more likely to be injured or killed in their home by a gun.

Which is largely due to a lack of proper training and education. This includes the whole household.

 

[oldbadger]

The minute we start labeling people as being "anti-gun" or "pro-gun" or "pro-Second Amendment", we've already muddied the waters. I think it would be hard to find someone here at IF who wants to repeal the 2nd Amendment or totally eliminate guns or totally ban guns from most people.

For most of us, it's typically what kind of guns should be available, the question of background checks, and who should have which kind of gun.

Exactly so.
Criminal record check, with sensible decisions about 'spent' convictions.
Training and Qualifications for safety.
Correct use.
Insurance.
All licensed.

 

[Revoltingest]

In 2003 the UK had its first 'Security Industry Authority' and the Govment put a lady in charge of it who had never been involved in any aspect of security in her whole life. In her opening message she explained 'This is ideal, because I will be able to look at all aspects of security with a fresh and open mind' or words like that. Can you beat that for bulldust?

In 2008, we elected a very pretty & silver tongued, but inexperienced & ill prepared
young fellow to lead the entire country. It hasn't worked out as well as we'd like.

Well..... yes. So is vehicle insurance, but you gotta have it.

The insurance idea has merit....so long as the Obamacare
nincompoops aren't even remotely involved in it.

 

[oldbadger]

I'm suspicious because I personally know several individuals who have
shot in self defense, but I know no one who injured a family member.

My God....... I think we'll have that bit of info....

So you know several individuals personally who have needed to discharge weapons at people in defence. Is that true? Several?

That says it all. Can we presume that they were defending against people who carried guns? Your guns need to be much more tightly controlled. I do not know of one person who has ever discharged a gun in self defence in my whole life.... you know several.

Case rests.

 

[Father Heathen]

Exactly so.
Criminal record check, with sensible decisions about 'spent' convictions.
Training and Qualifications for safety.
Correct use.
Insurance.
All licensed.

I'm not necessarily opposed to ideas like these. I'm just opposed to the notion of a complete ban and seizure.

 

[Revoltingest]

My God....... I think we'll have that bit of info....

So you know several individuals personally who have needed to discharge weapons at people in defence. Is that true? Several?

Yes. Remember, I live near Detroit. This shouldn't be too surprising. Consider that
like you, I've been around a long time, & know many many people, so it makes sense
that I'd have a large data set (including military, cops, guards) from which to cull examples.
But the vast majority of people I know who have used a gun for self defense did so by
brandishment, without firing a shot. This scenario seldom appears in popular statistics.

That says it all. Can we presume that they were defending against people who carried guns?

Mostly against people with other or unknown weapons.

Your guns need to be much more tightly controlled. I do not know of one person who has ever discharged a gun in self defence in my whole life.... you know several.
Case rests.

It's clear what's going on here.....you associate with victims, while I prefer winners.

 

[oldbadger]

I'm not necessarily opposed to ideas like these. I'm just opposed to the notion of a complete ban and seizure.

That's just never going to happen in the USA, as far as pistols, rifles and shotguns go.

How do you feel about fast firing semi-autos?

 

[Father Heathen]

My God....... I think we'll have that bit of info....

So you know several individuals personally who have needed to discharge weapons at people in defence. Is that true? Several?

That says it all. Can we presume that they were defending against people who carried guns? Your guns need to be much more tightly controlled. I do not know of one person who has ever discharged a gun in self defence in my whole life.... you know several.

Case rests.

Your case rests? Your case doesn't even make sense. So your logic is "because he needed to defend himself is precisely why he shouldn't have the means to do so."

What?

 

[Father Heathen]

How do you feel about fast firing semi-autos?

What about them?

 

[oldbadger]

Yes. Remember, I live near Detroit. This shouldn't be too surprising. Consider that like you, I've been around a long time, & know many many people, so it makes sense that I'd have a large data set from which to cull examples.
But the vast majority of people I know who have used a gun for self defense did so by brandishment, without firing a shot. This scenario seldom appears in popular statistics.

...that's different to discharging guns. OK?
...I have lived within fifty miles (or closer) to London most of my life, and I've seen a street stabbing (Battersea 1970), a bloke brandishing a billhook (Whitstable 1975) and several situations where people brandished knives. But if they'd had guns.....

I've faced more knives, hammers and clubs than anybody else I know, and my NHS record (for a couple of decades) reads 'Injured whilst making arrest' over and over again. Mostly bruises and scratches.... the occasional cut. Now if guns were more freely available here, I would have needed a permit to carry one as well, and almost definitely would have needed to draw it on occasion.

I don't understand your winner/loser position. When a gun gets shot at someone, that's a loss-situation.

 

[oldbadger]

Your case rests? Your case doesn't even make sense. So your logic is "because he needed to defend himself is precisely why he shouldn't have the means to do so."

What?

No....... because all those acquaintances needed to discharge weaponms at people..... who were holding weapons (?) there should be more control of who has weapons, which brings us back to CR checks, quals, Ins, Licences etc. You already do have controls over body armour..... Convicts cannot have or wear body armour..... might as well prohibit them froim holding guns as well.....

 

[oldbadger]

What about them?

Ha ha! Within the context of that post, what do you think about the freedom to own fast firing semi autos?

EDIT: Back later: must walk hound....

 

[freethinker44]

I'm suspicious because I personally know several individuals who have
shot in self defense, but I know no one who injured a family member.

I actually know a guy who bought a gun and immediately shot himself in the leg. Literally, it was the first thing he did as soon as he loaded it. He brought it home, unpackaged it, loaded it, and was on his way to the hospital within 10 minutes.

It was cartoonishly comical. Like that kid in A Christmas Story who shot himself in the eye after being told he can have a gun because he will shoot his eye out.

 

[Revoltingest]

...that's different to discharging guns. OK?

Certainly. I addressed that distinction initially.

...I have lived within fifty miles (or closer) to London most of my life, and I've seen a street stabbing (Battersea 1970), a bloke brandishing a billhook (Whitstable 1975) and several situations where people brandished knives. But if they'd had guns.....

I've faced more knives, hammers and clubs than anybody else I know, and my NHS record (for a couple of decades) reads 'Injured whilst making arrest' over and over again. Mostly bruises and scratches.... the occasional cut. Now if guns were more freely available here, I would have needed a permit to carry one as well, and almost definitely would have needed to draw it on occasion.

I don't understand your winner/loser position. When a gun gets shot at someone, that's a loss-situation.

That's a defeatist attitude. I look at it thus:
There are no guarantees in a conflict.
I will do what makes sense to improve my odds.

If ever a perp kills me, I promise to not complain that I was assured a win.

 

[Revoltingest]

I actually know a guy who bought a gun and immediately shot himself in the leg. Literally, it was the first thing he did as soon as he loaded it. He brought it home, unpackaged it, loaded it, and was on his way to the hospital within 10 minutes.
It was cartoonishly comical. Like that kid in A Christmas Story who shot himself in the eye after being told he can have a gun because he will shoot his eye out.

This is why I favor mandatory training, even more extensive than is required for a
concealed carry permit. I shot competitively, & learned safety on ranges with very
strict discipline. I cringe around untrained people with weapons, & often give
annoying safety lectures. (And you thought I was only a jerk on the web! I am IRL too.)

 

[Viker]

I actually know a guy who bought a gun and immediately shot himself in the leg. Literally, it was the first thing he did as soon as he loaded it. He brought it home, unpackaged it, loaded it, and was on his way to the hospital within 10 minutes.

It was cartoonishly comical. Like that kid in A Christmas Story who shot himself in the eye after being told he can have a gun because he will shoot his eye out.

1) Always be vigilant and alert. 2) Gun is always loaded. 3) Keep barrel in direction you don't mind shooting. 4) Keep finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. 5) Know the target, all that is immediately surrounding it, especially behind it. 6) Keep firearms maintained and within secure locations. 7) Train and practice. 8) Keep in mind 1 through 7, always.

 

[Revoltingest]

9) Repeat step #8.

 

[McBell]

No....... because all those acquaintances needed to discharge weaponms at people..... who were holding weapons (?) there should be more control of who has weapons, which brings us back to CR checks, quals, Ins, Licences etc. You already do have controls over body armour..... Convicts cannot have or wear body armour..... might as well prohibit them froim holding guns as well.....

Hard to take you serious when you have such a serious lack of knowledge concerning the fire arm laws in the USA.

 

[Viker]

This is why I favor mandatory training, even more extensive than is required for a
concealed carry permit. I shot competitively, & learned safety on ranges with very
strict discipline. I cringe around untrained people with weapons, & often give
annoying safety lectures. (And you thought I was only a jerk on the web! I am IRL too.)

Yep. I've even reported individuals being idiots on YouTube and other sites. For example: I hate, even in an entertainment context, pointing of guns at the camera.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yep. I've even reported individuals being idiots on YouTube and other sites. I hate, even in an entertainment context, pointing of guns at the camera.

Entertainment venues....ugh!
They have non-gun types using stupid arsched terms like "gat", "piece" & "heat".