Another Trump thread!

[Valjean]

Almost all threads are to tell us how bad trump is. It’s a sickness with them.

https://bandylee.com/conference2024.pdf

 

[Valjean]

Trump has already put heavy tariffs on Its European Allies and on the UK. these are not small matters.
He has also prevented Europe trading hitec goods and services with China. On the pretext of security, when in realty it is commercial protectionism, too shore up failing American industries.
No security issues have ever been shown to exist.

8 charts that explain the Biden, Trump economies

Get ready: In the 2024 presidential race, the candidates will talk about the economy. A lot. We know because it’s alread

www.politifact.com

 

[Valjean]

Why is relating to the middle and working class seen as "despotic"??? I mean, Democrats no longer care about them, obviously.

It's not the relationship. It's the undermining of democracy and arrogation of power that's despotic.

It's true, the Party of the People abandoned the people to seek its fortune with the technical class, leaving the working and much of the middle class flapping in the wind. Their grievances are real, but they've misidentified their oppressors -- with the eager assistance of the Party of Business.

 

[Copernicus]

MSM is not legit news

This is something strongly promoted by the Republicans that you have bought into. "You can't trust the MSM - it's lefty propaganda - follow the real news on the following recommended platforms: ...."

But it does help to explain why social media have become so powerful. People are easily able to manipulate the sources of information that they are exposed to. Attacking the press is an old tactic for wannabe dictators, and Trump's demagoguery sounds very similar to the kind of paranoia spread around in Europe by autocrats like Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, and Franco. It's all about blaming scapegoats for all our problems, especially economic ones, and attacking the press for hiding the facts from the public. Trump did not invent the playbook, but he sure knows how to play it. Those who will vote for him don't really listen to him anymore. They are tuned out and will cast their votes accordingly. They can limit and tailor their sources of information to confirm all their biases.

 

[Secret Chief]

Hard not to confirm Godwin...

- Donald Trump's ex-wife once said Trump kept a book of Hitler's speeches by his bed

 

[Twilight Hue]

Orange man bad!

I said the thing. Give me frubals?

Seriously though, 14/20 of the threads in the first page of North American Politics sub forum are specifically about TRUMP.

Is there really nothing else to talk about in the sphere of North American politics? Like, at all? Genuine question.

Trump dominates the conversation. I’m sure he is glad about that.

I don’t have to participate in Trump threads, true. But they take up a lot of space ;-;

All likely from the same few people.

 

[an anarchist]

Interesting point of view. Explain?

Democracy is (in my view) tyranny by the majority. But before I go further -

And why are you assuming democracy?

Can you explain a bit more what you mean here? This leaves me a bit confused.

They thought the German chancellorship and Italian prime and interior ministries were controllable figurehead positions back in the early 20th century, as well....

fair point.

I believe Trump is a fascist, sure. I am interested in why the other side is not authoritarian fascists as well. I’m interested in why people think Kamala Harris isn’t authoritarian as well (or why any government is capable of being not authoritarian to a fault).

I guess my point of the OP is that all the politicians want to wrongly control our lives and liberty. Trump is blatant perhaps, but I see the other politicians as simply denying their own authoritarianism.

 

[crossfire]

Like Trump or not, he has turned American politics on its head.

He's brought out the worst in us. Now we just have to recognize it for what it is and make the needed changes within ourselves.

 

[Stevicus]

Democracy is (in my view) tyranny by the majority. But before I go further -

Can you explain a bit more what you mean here? This leaves me a bit confused.

fair point.

I believe Trump is a fascist, sure. I am interested in why the other side is not authoritarian fascists as well. I’m interested in why people think Kamala Harris isn’t authoritarian as well (or why any government is capable of being not authoritarian to a fault).

I guess my point of the OP is that all the politicians want to wrongly control our lives and liberty. Trump is blatant perhaps, but I see the other politicians as simply denying their own authoritarianism.

I've often wondered about the same thing. I have found myself in discussions with people where we basically agree on most of the main points and our stances on various issues, but the discussion instantly goes downhill when I point out flaws of the Democrats or when I don't acknowledge that "Trump is the worst thing in the world" or rhetoric along those lines.

For some people, it's not enough to simply agree on a rational basis, as they insist that I feel just as angry and upset about Trump as they do. That's what I've found so ludicrous about many of these discussions.

 

[Pogo]

Trump has already put heavy tariffs on Its European Allies and on the UK. these are not small matters.
He has also prevented Europe trading hitec goods and services with China. On the pretext of security, when in realty it is commercial protectionism, too shore up failing American industries.
No security issues have ever been shown to exist.

The israeli pager trick is causing me to agree more with those who see danger in Chinese communications infrastructure.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The israeli pager trick is causing me to agree more with those who see danger in Chinese communications infrastructure.

The Chinese had nothing to do with the Israelis putting explosives in pagers.
You are being frightened by" what iffs."
There is nothing more contagious than paranoia.
We know the USA has back doors in chips designed by American companies.
While it has never been shown that China has ever done the same.

We don't know but suspect that the UK has access to most phones.

Only Israel has coupled access with explosives.and then only on a special limited order.
Had anyone of those phones need a new battery it would have been discovered.

 

[Valjean]

Democracy is (in my view) tyranny by the majority. But before I go further -

Potentially, yes, which is why safeguards must be in place to curb abuse

Can you explain a bit more what you mean here? This leaves me a bit confused.

The US was not set up as a popular democracy. The aristocracy has always valued stability over progress and sought to reserve political power to themselves. They became panicked when the unstable progressivism of the '60s seemed to bear out Kirk's 1951 prediction in his classic The Conservative Mind that the rising middle class would soon have the leisure time to become political, and chaos would result.
By '71 the Republicans had essentially declared war on the 'leftist' middle classes and were actively seeking to undermine it and diminish the democratic power of the people. The Lewis Powell Memo: A Corporate Blueprint to Dominate Democracy By 1980 the Right had elected a president with the express purpose of reducing American democracy and the middle class. Since then the GOP's been undermining democracy at every turn. Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
So... is the US actually a democracy?

fair point.

I believe Trump is a fascist, sure. I am interested in why the other side is not authoritarian fascists as well. I’m interested in why people think Kamala Harris isn’t authoritarian as well (or why any government is capable of being not authoritarian to a fault).

I guess my point of the OP is that all the politicians want to wrongly control our lives and liberty. Trump is blatant perhaps, but I see the other politicians as simply denying their own authoritarianism.

The 'other side' does not exhibit the characteristics of fascism to nearly the extent the GOP currently does.

The 14 Characteristics of Fascism, by Lawrence Britt, Spring 2003

The 12 Early Warning Signs of Fascism | Washington Monthly

Guess how many Trump has already checked off.

washingtonmonthly.com

 

[Pogo]

The Chinese had nothing to do with the Israelis putting explosives in pagers.
You are being frightened by" what iffs."
There is nothing more contagious than paranoia.
We know the USA has back doors in chips designed by American companies.
While it has never been shown that China has ever done the same.

We don't know but suspect that the UK has access to most phones.

Only Israel has coupled access with explosives.and then only on a special limited order.
Had anyone of those phones need a new battery it would have been discovered.

If we know the US has back doors, then it would be fairly safe to assume that there may well be back doors that the Chinese have put in their communications chips which could then be used to disrupt communications on a wide scale in the US if they wanted. That we can trust Nokia, etc. better may be questionable, It is a national security issue.
Most unfortunate as it makes cell and internet functions more expensive to build out.
But then Donald wants to put tariffs on everything anyhow.

Sorry, but Chinese behaviour in Hong Kong and elsewhere leads me not to trust them.

 

[Stevicus]

The Chinese had nothing to do with the Israelis putting explosives in pagers.
You are being frightened by" what iffs."
There is nothing more contagious than paranoia.
We know the USA has back doors in chips designed by American companies.
While it has never been shown that China has ever done the same.

We don't know but suspect that the UK has access to most phones.

Only Israel has coupled access with explosives.and then only on a special limited order.
Had anyone of those phones need a new battery it would have been discovered.

I think very little is known about that whole exploding pagers operation. I was reading in another forum that it could have been the Russians, since it was a Hungarian company which supplied the pagers. A Taiwanese company has also been mentioned. But it's all speculation at this point. I saw one suggestion where someone believed that Putin did it to distract world attention away from Ukraine and on Israel.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I think very little is known about that whole exploding pagers operation. I was reading in another forum that it could have been the Russians, since it was a Hungarian company which supplied the pagers. A Taiwanese company has also been mentioned. But it's all speculation at this point. I saw one suggestion where someone believed that Putin did it to distract world attention away from Ukraine and on Israel.

It is unlikely that the makers or original suppliers of the pagers. placed the explosives and implanted the software to detonate them. It is likely to have been done at a clandestine intermediate stage..without any knowledge of the OEM.

The same is likely to be true of any future such enterprise.

If you need security it is necessary to check the product before it is used. At the highest level this means checking every item, from what ever source.

This means also removing any existing firmware and software, and replacing it with known safe versions.

I do not believe that American equipment and software is in any way safer than Chinese equivalents.
As a Brit I would be more inclined to trust the Chinese, when it comes to national security. However I would expect all nationally critical electronic equipment to be checked and kept under review from any country.

At a personal level I rather doubt absolute security of our personal data is even possible.
But I am very happy with my Huawei phone. I also note that all my gadgetry is either Chinese made or contains Chinese parts, however it is badged.
A large majority of famous western brands are actually sourced in china or the far east.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I think very little is known about that whole exploding pagers operation. I was reading in another forum that it could have been the Russians, since it was a Hungarian company which supplied the pagers. A Taiwanese company has also been mentioned. But it's all speculation at this point. I saw one suggestion where someone believed that Putin did it to distract world attention away from Ukraine and on Israel.

That sounds like one of the more silly conspiracy theories, to redirect the Israeli guilt.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

If we know the US has back doors, then it would be fairly safe to assume that there may well be back doors that the Chinese have put in their communications chips which could then be used to disrupt communications on a wide scale in the US if they wanted. That we can trust Nokia, etc. better may be questionable, It is a national security issue.
Most unfortunate as it makes cell and internet functions more expensive to build out.
But then Donald wants to put tariffs on everything anyhow.

Sorry, but Chinese behaviour in Hong Kong and elsewhere leads me not to trust them.

I thought that the Chinese acted as well as could be expected in line with the American inspired and funded riots. There were remarkably few injuries and the riots faded to nothing as soon as the funding ceased.