He'd better hope that the Christian businesses that he deals with don't decide to refuse people who bear false witness.
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Anti-gay baker now takes stand against birthdays for trans people
- Thread starter 9-10ths_Penguin
- Start date
Help me there, please. What in the situation is violating the cakemaker's convictions?
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Cacotopia
Let's go full Trottle
I think he needs that hateball machine I mentioned above, except with religious stuff.
Ball 0612: To a daughter of a priest that are currently dating or have dated anyone in their life, are to be refused service of any kind
Ball 0237: To anyone who has ever consumed shellfish of any kind must be refused service.
Ball 0003: People wearing white shoes after labor day.
Why these stories are absurd:
1) Because bakers like this are very rare...and you can go to another bakery
2) Because gay people don't want cakes made by homophobic bakers
1) Because bakers like this are very rare...and you can go to another bakery
2) Because gay people don't want cakes made by homophobic bakers
THIS^^^^^^^^!
Freedom is complicated.
Personally, I don't want a cake from a bigot. I'd rather have a lumpy expression of caring than an art piece from a vicious Christian producing it at gunpoint.
Yuck!
Tom
Eta~ The baker is giving me yet more reason to believe that Christianity has nothing to do with God whatsoever. I think he should be free to do that to his hearts content. I don't really care for Christianity all that much. ~
A Manhattan judge has ruled that New York City bars are within their rights to refuse to serve conservatives
New York City Judge Allows Bars To Refuse To Serve Conservatives
As a customer, I don't go about announcing anything about my personal views. I go into a place of business to do business, not make political statements.
Lots of egos, opposing moral views. Icky personal stuff which cause unnecessary division between people in many cases. I mean why would you go to a bar that doesn't like conservatives and announce you are a conservative? If it bothered you, why would you support the establishment.
Sure, I wish more people were like me and agreed with my political ideas and morals. That's just not the world.
Sapiens
Polymathematician
Are his cakes trans-fat free?
The issue is one of "protected groups."
As wiki describes it:
Protected group
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
For the computer science concept, see Information hiding.
A protected group or protected class is a group of people qualified for special protection by a law, policy, or similar authority. In the United States, the term is frequently used in connection with employees and employment.
Where discrimination on the basis of protected group status is concerned, a single act of discrimination may be based on membership in more than one protected group. For example, discrimination based on antisemitism may relate to religion, national origin, or both; discrimination against a pregnant woman might be based on sex, marital status, or both.[1]
U.S. federal law protects individuals from discrimination or harassment based on the following nine protected classes: sex, race, age, disability, color, creed, national origin, religion, or genetic information (added in 2008). Many state laws also give certain protected groups special protection against harassment and discrimination, as do many employer policies. Although it is not required by federal law, employer policies may also protect employees from harassment or discrimination based on marital status or sexual orientation.[1] The following characteristics are "protected" by United States federal anti-discrimination law:
It is clearly legal to discriminate in all other cases, but I'd argue that it is outside of the spirit of the law, thus legal but wrong anyway. It would be interesting to explore what sort of protection might be extended to the LGBTQ community by the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act.
The issue is one of "protected groups."
As wiki describes it:
Protected group
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
For the computer science concept, see Information hiding.
A protected group or protected class is a group of people qualified for special protection by a law, policy, or similar authority. In the United States, the term is frequently used in connection with employees and employment.
Where discrimination on the basis of protected group status is concerned, a single act of discrimination may be based on membership in more than one protected group. For example, discrimination based on antisemitism may relate to religion, national origin, or both; discrimination against a pregnant woman might be based on sex, marital status, or both.[1]
U.S. federal law protects individuals from discrimination or harassment based on the following nine protected classes: sex, race, age, disability, color, creed, national origin, religion, or genetic information (added in 2008). Many state laws also give certain protected groups special protection against harassment and discrimination, as do many employer policies. Although it is not required by federal law, employer policies may also protect employees from harassment or discrimination based on marital status or sexual orientation.[1] The following characteristics are "protected" by United States federal anti-discrimination law:
- Race – Civil Rights Act of 1964
- Religion – Civil Rights Act of 1964
- National origin – Civil Rights Act of 1964
- Age (40 and over) – Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
- Sex – Equal Pay Act of 1963 and Civil Rights Act of 1964
- The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission interprets 'sex' to include discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity[2]
- Pregnancy – Pregnancy Discrimination Act
- Citizenship – Immigration Reform and Control Act
- Familial status – Civil Rights Act of 1968 Title VIII: Housing cannot discriminate for having children, with an exception for senior housing
- Disability status – Rehabilitation Act of 1973 and Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
- Veteran status – Vietnam Era Veterans' Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 and Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act
- Genetic information – Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act
It is clearly legal to discriminate in all other cases, but I'd argue that it is outside of the spirit of the law, thus legal but wrong anyway. It would be interesting to explore what sort of protection might be extended to the LGBTQ community by the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act.
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Cacotopia
Let's go full Trottle
A+ post would read again.
Would that judge rule that bars can refuse service to black people?
This freedom stuff is complicated.
Are the bars basing their policies on "sincerely held religious beliefs "? Here in Indiana that would make their discrimination legal.
It requires education and engagement to do freedom right.
Tom
That's what we want to know. Having spent half my life as a Christian I don't recall that anywhere. Transgender was probably not even known at the time, except possibly the person being thought to be possessed by demons.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
That whole Slippery Slope thing, I expect.
Protected Class had to be created by Government, because essential Constitutional Freedoms were being eroded by people who were raised into bigotry, and saw nothing wrong with expressing it.
It's sad, really, but humans are Tribal like that.
In truth, the basic guarantee of the Constitution ought to automagically protect everyone, with equal status. That whole "All Men" shtick.
Of course... the slick bigots will quickly re-define what the meaning of "men" is, and say, "These sorts are not really 'men', and therefore, not protected."
That's how they get around it. That's always how they get around it: Re-defining whichever group they feel the need to hate on, as being "not-people".
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Birthdays violate his conscience? After he specifically said he'd make birthday cakes for people?
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
It must be nice to have a business doing so well you can afford to turn away customers over such nonsensical reasons.
Cacotopia
Let's go full Trottle
I'd be curious to know how he is able to identify trans people so accurately.
I am a dude, but I have long hair, I wonder if he might mislabel me as trans. What version of trans or gaydar is he operating to make him so accurate.
(sarcasm just in case)
Flame
Beware
Same here and I have both my ears pierced.
This is not always so.
States & cities may add other groups, eg....
- Educational affiliation
- Sexual preference
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Well, to be fair, while there are some transgender people whose transition is flawless, there are some out there whose..,. isn't. I'm sure most trans people we encounter, you'd never know. But the ones who aren't... well, it's hard not to notice.
Sapiens
Polymathematician
Race is a protected class, as is religion, political persuasion is not. Our current problem stems from an unanticipated argument that is outside of the spirit of the law, but in line with the spirit of some sects who do not believe that their freedom to swing their fists ends where other peoples' noses begin. Religion based discrimination does not trump protected classes, but the lack of specific protection eliminates consideration of what basic human rights are and opens the argument of enumerated rights vs. human rights providing bigots of every ilk with legalistic cover.
I agree, legally, it's complicated. Laws very from state to state and even from city to city.