Anti semitisam

[columbus]

The word "anti-Semitic" still means what it did when it was coined.

Do you have a precise definition for the word "Jewish"?
If so, what is it?
Tom

 

[rosends]

The 'issue', here is that ''Semite'', doesn't technically mean someone who practices Judaism. Hence, the inherent complication in meaning, whether or not it was intended to mean someone practicing Judaism, or not.

Ie even if a Semite is worshipping farm animals, it isn't logical to think that they would become something else besides a ''Semite''.

So, I guess, to some this means the label is inherently confusing.

Though the prefixes aren't the same, the process is:

Diluvian means pertaining to a deluge
antediluvian means before the biblical flood (not before ANY deluge)

just because it has the word "diluvian" in it does not mean that you can use it to refer to New Orleans before Katrina. The compound construct has a particular meaning which is more specific than the general meaning of one of the root words.

 

[outhouse]

isn't that anti-Jewish?

If one wanted to imagine the whole world was out to get him, that's all he would see.

 

[Jeremy Taylor]

If endorsing Christianity includes endorsing a theological platform which denies the validity of Judaism (and even endorsing the idea that Jews are worthy of punishment and such) isn't that anti-Jewish? If you are talking about happening to like Christianity and believing that it is a great way to be but different strokes for different folks, then fine. But sadly, often, being pro one thing demands being anti something viewed mutually exclusive.

Well, it is anti-Judaism up to a point, just as it is anti- other religions. But surely this is not what one means by anti-Semitism? Otherwise, you are saying every exclusivist religious believer is prejudiced against everyone who isn't a believer in the same religion or sect. Anti-Semitism is surely about particular dislike, negative stereotypes, and hatred of Jews.

 

[outhouse]

antediluvian means before the biblical flood (not before ANY deluge)

And what specific date would that be?

Diluvian means pertaining to a deluge

So does mythology in many different cultures that existed before israelites

 

[rosends]

Do you have a precise definition for the word "Jewish"?
If so, what is it?
Tom

someone who is a member of a group defined by the group's laws as established through descent or conversion.

Pretty similar to how one would define "American." American law gets to determine who/what is American as codified in American law. One can be an American according to those laws by birth or adopted citizenship.

 

[outhouse]

Well, it is anti-Judaism up to a point, just as it is anti- other religions. But surely this is not what one means by anti-Semitism? Otherwise, you are saying every exclusivist religious believer is prejudiced against everyone who isn't a believer in the same religion or sect. Anti-Semitism is surely about particular dislike, negative stereotypes, and hatred of Jews.

I think your correct here.

hatred of or discrimination sums it up.

 

[rosends]

Well, it is anti-Judaism up to a point, just as it is anti- other religions. But surely this is not what one means by anti-Semitism? Otherwise, you are saying every exclusivist religious believer is prejudiced against everyone who isn't a believer in the same religion or sect. Anti-Semitism is surely about particular dislike, negative stereotypes, and hatred of Jews.

Christian sections adopting the creed of supersessionism are inherently anti-Judaism. It isn't about "separate but remotely equal" but about "accept my view or burn in hell, and by denying Jesus you already chose choice B."

 

[rosends]

And what specific date would that be?

there is no particular date. It is a reference to "before an event" and so it would apply to any "before" that anyone decides that event happened in. Are you not familiar with the word?

So does mythology in many different cultures that existed before israelites

How is that even close to being relevant to a discussion of an English word?

 

[Desert Snake]

Though the prefixes aren't the same, the process is:

Diluvian means pertaining to a deluge
antediluvian means before the biblical flood (not before ANY deluge)

just because it has the word "diluvian" in it does not mean that you can use it to refer to New Orleans before Katrina. The compound construct has a particular meaning which is more specific than the general meaning of one of the root words.

Yeah I don't have an issue with that. It could be said that similar instances would apply to the usage of the word Jewish, imo.

 

[Jeremy Taylor]

Christian sections adopting the creed of supersessionism are inherently anti-Judaism. It isn't about "separate but remotely equal" but about "accept my view or burn in hell, and by denying Jesus you already chose choice B."

But this isn't really what anti-Semitism means. If they are singly out Jews as particularly reprehensible unbelievers, then perhaps. But simply believing in exclusive Christianity, and that other religious believers may be punished, surely isn't how we usually think of anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism is about prejudice, stereotypes, and peculiar dislike and hatred of Jews.

After all, how many orthodox Jewish believe Christianity is not very much mistaken? Does this make them anti-Christian in the sense of bigotry?

 

[outhouse]

someone who is a member of a group defined by the group's laws as established through descent or conversion.

Not really true.

Because Jews do not follow the same laws and it is established through much more then decent or conversation.

It is a tough definition. It is dynamic

Cultural heritage, geographic heritage, religious practices under Yahweh. One can be born a Jew and never practice the religion. One can be from anywhere and practice the religion in many ways. One can adopt cultural practices and be considered Jewish with adhering to customs.

Who is using and stating the term Judaism more then not defines the standard. You would define it very differently from a typical Jew or reform Jew or any other sect of Judaism

 

[rosends]

Yeah I don't have an issue with that. It could be said that similar instances would apply to the usage of the word Jewish, imo.

in what way? is there a compound which means something different from a root?

 

[outhouse]

. It is a reference to "before an event"

Well that event is said by all credible historians to have never taken place so how can that be?

 

[rosends]

But this isn't really what anti-Semitism means. If they are singly out Jews as particularly reprehensible unbelievers, then perhaps. But simply believing in exclusive Christianity, and that other religious believers may be punished, surely isn't how we usually think of anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism is about prejudice, stereotypes, and peculiar dislike and hatred of Jews.

After all, how many orthodox Jewish believe Christianity is not very much mistaken? Does this make them anti-Christian in the sense of bigotry?

Supersessionism is precisely what anti-Semitism is as it singles out Jews. When Muhammed decided to kill Jews because they rejected him, when Martin Luther laced into Jews because they rejected him (and on and on) it wasn't about simply exclusivity, but about being against Jews.

And are Jews anti-christianity? For the most part, only for Jews. You won't often find a Jew who goes and tries to convert a Christian out of his religion in an effort to "save his soul."

 

[columbus]

I don't recall ever saying you are anti-Semitic. Can you show me otherwise?

I don't believe you ever have. Here on RF the two I vaguely remember are CMike and Jay. I think that there were others. On other forums and in real life there are lots more. Ironically, pointing out that I like Judaism better than the other Abrahamic religions, Jewish people as a group, and my favorite BIL is Jewish is yet more evidence that I am antisemitic.

I have had my opinions about Zionist policy and behavior dismissed as antisemitism. I've seen it happen to other people. That is solid evidence that the label is not nearly as precise as you prefer that it be.
Tom

 

[rosends]

Well that event is said by all credible historians to have never taken place so how can that be?

So words only have meaning if they apply to specific historical events? I can't talk about "Noachide law" because historians don't accept that Noah existed? Somehow, dictionaries everywhere have been hoodwinked into having the word "antediluvian" in them referring to the time before the biblical flood.

 

[Desert Snake]

in what way? is there a compound which means something different from a root?

No, I mean, that the word Jewish is used in different contexts, similar to, in this instance, 'Semitic'. The compound would be incidental to my statement.

 

[rosends]

I don't believe you ever have. Here on RF the two I vaguely remember are CMike and Jay. I think that there were others. On other forums and in real life there are lots more. Ironically, pointing out that I like Judaism better than the other Abrahamic religions, Jewish people as a group, and my favorite BIL is Jewish is yet more evidence that I am antisemitic.

I have had my opinions about Zionist policy and behavior dismissed as antisemitism. I've seen it happen to other people. That is solid evidence that the label is not nearly as precise as you prefer that it be.
Tom

I don't believe you ever have. Here on RF the two I vaguely remember are CMike and Jay. I think that there were others. On other forums and in real life there are lots more. Ironically, pointing out that I like Judaism better than the other Abrahamic religions, Jewish people as a group, and my favorite BIL is Jewish is yet more evidence that I am antisemitic.

I have had my opinions about Zionist policy and behavior dismissed as antisemitism. I've seen it happen to other people. That is solid evidence that the label is not nearly as precise as you prefer that it be.
Tom

If I haven't then asking me "Why am I antisemitic and the "Jews" you refer to aren't?" isn't particularly fruitful.

And maybe people have dismissed your policy and behavior as anti-Semitic because there is an underlying link between being against a state which represents autonomy for Jews, and being against the Jewish religion which aspires to that state, and those people were calling out that link.

 

[Jeremy Taylor]

Supersessionism is precisely what anti-Semitism is as it singles out Jews. When Muhammed decided to kill Jews because they rejected him, when Martin Luther laced into Jews because they rejected him (and on and on) it wasn't about simply exclusivity, but about being against Jews.

And are Jews anti-christianity? For the most part, only for Jews. You won't often find a Jew who goes and tries to convert a Christian out of his religion in an effort to "save his soul."

If you talking only about singling out Jews, then you could certainly could make a good argument that there is anti-Semitism there. But I don't think that simply faulting a religion, either as a sceptic or as a member of another religion, or not thinking it correct, or preferring another belief system or religion, is to be anti- that religion in the sinister sense we mean when we speak of anti-Semitism. I think that stretches the notion of anti-Semitism and bigotry far beyond a sensible point. So, Christian School prayers cannot sensibly be considered anti-Semitic.