Any Pro-Gun Liberals?

[Valjean]

I think you have a point, JB.
How many times has a modern, mechanized army successfully prevailed against an armed insurgency, even in the most primitive of countries.

 

[Nepenthe]

I'm not exactly pro-gun (I don't own one), but I am pro-2nd amendment. I can't cherrypick the convenient ones from the Bill of Rights.

I'm in the same boat in that the courts have interpreted the 2nd amendment pretty broadly and it's difficult for me to dispute their decisions. I'm also not particularly worried about criminals or some monolithic government entity attacking me- I'm more worried about my and my family's civil rights being stomped on by overly aggressive law enforcement. I'm more likely to have my door kicked in by some high school drop out with a gun and a badge than I am by the kid who deals drugs in front of my apartment complex.

Then again, I'm not a Dem'-liberal so maybe the OP isn't aimed at me(?).

 

[J Bryson]

I'm in the same boat in that the courts have interpreted the 2nd amendment pretty broadly and it's difficult for me to dispute their decisions. I'm also not particularly worried about criminals or some monolithic government entity attacking me- I'm more worried about my and my family's civil rights being stomped on by overly aggressive law enforcement. I'm more likely to have my door kicked in by some high school drop out with a gun and a badge than I am by the kid who deals drugs in front of my apartment complex.

Then again, I'm not a Dem'-liberal so maybe the OP isn't aimed at me(?).

I'm a Dem-Liberal who found himself in uncomfortable agreement with G. Gordon Liddy when he talked about how to deal with ATF agents who kick down your door without a warrant.

 

[Nepenthe]

I'm a Dem-Liberal who found himself in uncomfortable agreement with G. Gordon Liddy when he talked about how to deal with ATF agents who kick down your door without a warrant.

Exactly! I feel sickened..... but(?).

 

[Panda]

I'm not a big gun fan. In fact the only time I have seen a real gun was when I was in Disney Land Paris and the Gendarmarie(sp?) were all armed at the entrance. In the UK I have never seen a gun and never had any inkling to own one, it is unnecessary in my opinion to own a gun for "self defence"

 

[Zephyr]

I'm not sure if I count as a liberal (I'm really all over the place), but I'm cool with guns. Don't own any myself or know anything about them, but I love heading out to the range with my uncle and shoot wax, and I'll probably get my own revolver some time after college so I can continue to do so. I'm for a strict reading of the 2nd amendment, and all adult Americans should have the right to all small arms. Basically, whatever your average grunt would carry with him. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid, but I don't trust a government that would get this close to a monopoly on force.

 

[Storm]

I can't remember whether I've responded to this, so I beg your collective pardon if I'm repeating myself.

I am a pro-gun liberal. I believe that our justice system presumes we will protect oursleves, and is only designed to mete out justice when we fail to do so. Further, I approve of this philosophy.

If the (government) housing I live in didn't forbid it (a clear violation of the 2nd Amendment, though I understand the reasoning), I would have a loaded shotgun by my bed. Not locked unloaded in a safe where it would do no good. As it is, I have something close to a quarterstaff.

 

[McBell]

I think a ban on guns designed for killing people is sufficient.

Huh?
Can you please present an example of a gun that was "designed for killing people?"
and an example of a gun that was not "designed for killing people"?

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I would say that I am not a liberal but a radical who respects the rights of the majority. I don't believe that I can or should force my radical left agenda on the american public. The only way that this works is by education not pushing people before they are ready. This is a democracy.

On the topic of Guns. I was raised in a family ( on my dads side ) of cowboys. I got my first rifle when I was 7 years old. By the time I was 18, I had a 22 and 30-06 rifles and 410 and 12 gauge shotguns.

I would not have a Gun in my house today. I can see no reason to own a gun. At the same time I totally support gun rights. I believe in Ahimsa but find the concept hard to apply to my life 100%. If I cant do it. ( most people who believe that they can I have my doubts about them ) How can I ask others to do it. History shows us the Governments get out of control, armed civilians are the best way to make sure that we can stand up to any tyrant. (Bush seemed to be pushing the line of tyrannical behavior.) Until the day that the American public evolves to the use of ahismsa. We need the possibility of guns ownership to protect our rights.

 

[Valjean]

I'm not a big gun fan. In fact the only time I have seen a real gun was when I was in Disney Land Paris and the Gendarmarie(sp?) were all armed at the entrance. In the UK I have never seen a gun and never had any inkling to own one, it is unnecessary in my opinion to own a gun for "self defence"

But what if you're set upon by angry badgers?

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I always have a Glock 9mm under the driver's seat of the van and always will.

If you have children would you still leave it under the seat.

 

[DarkSun]

Huh?
Can you please present an example of a gun that was "designed for killing people?"
and an example of a gun that was not "designed for killing people"?

This is Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. They are currently in their school canteen, and are about to embark on a massacre, killing 12 students and a teacher, as well as wounding 23 others, before committing suicide. They bought the two guns from Walmart. I can assure you, neither of the guns they were holding were designed for shooting rabbits.

Those must be some killer rabbits we're hunting.

 

[Apex]

This is Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. They are currently in their school canteen, and are about to embark on a massacre, killing 12 students and a teacher, as well as wounding 23 others, before committing suicide. They bought the two guns from Walmart. I can assure you, neither of the guns they were holding sure were designed for shooting rabbits.

Can you show some references that they purchased their guns, legally, from Wal-mart?

 

[DarkSun]

Can you show some references that they purchased their guns, legally, from Wal-mart?

Bowling For Columbine says that they bought the guns from Walmart, but that's not a very good source, especially considering the director of that "documentary".

Anyway, what difference does it make? Maybe the guns where owned by Eric's parents. Maybe Dylan's neighbour had one.

 

[Apex]

Bowling For Columbine says that they bought the guns from Walmart, but that's not a very good sourse, especially considering the director of that "documentary".

Anyway, what difference does it make? Maybe the guns where owned by Eric's parents. Maybe Dylan's neighbour had one.

You still did not give a reference.

 

[DarkSun]

You still did not give a reference.

I don't understand how that's relevant. Maybe I should have read the thread.

But if you need a reference...

Michael Moore. Bowling for Columbine (2002).

 

[Nepenthe]

But what if you're set upon by angry badgers?

...or chavs.

 

[Zephyr]

This is Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. They are currently in their school canteen, and are about to embark on a massacre, killing 12 students and a teacher, as well as wounding 23 others, before committing suicide. They bought the two guns from Walmart. I can assure you, neither of the guns they were holding were designed for shooting rabbits.

Those must be some killer rabbits we're hunting.

Did you know those guns are no more powerful (and usually weaker) than some old Fudd's hunting rifle? They fire semi-automatically (not unusual in the least. I've seen revolvers that could do it), often fire low-power ammunition, and are not the same thing as what soldiers use.

Explosives are a totally different animal. The 2nd amendment covers arms, not ordnance, so I support restricting civilian ownership of destructive devices (except maybe the bore-size restriction. That's kind of dumb).

Is this gun designed to kill people?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/SKS_modified.jpg

How about this one?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/45/Yugo_SKS_M59_66.JPG


Let's take a moment...


Those are the same gun. They fire the same bullets at the same speed and rate of fire, and carry the same amount of rounds. The functionality isn't changed in any significant way, yet for some reason whenever I show these pictures people are often okay with getting rid of the first one while leaving the second innocent "hunting rifle" there.

I have fired multiple scary black rifles at the range, as well as gone hunting with a semi-auto SKS (seen above). They are no more designed for killing people than a bolt-action hunting rifle is, or a target-shooter's single action revolver.

Speaking of which, does anybody have any recommendations for a single action revolver for the guy on a budget? I'd just use it for casting and shooting wax at targets, so I'm not entirely too picky about caliber so long as primers are reasonable. Just something that won't die on me and can shoot pretty straight.

 

[painted wolf]

um... not to pick nits... but the kids got their guns from the Tanner Gun Show and one from a 'friend'... not WalMart.

If they got anything from WalMart is was ammo.

wa:do

ps. source: Loophole protects Columbine 'witness'

 

[Valjean]

Any gun, except perhaps a squirt gun, can kill people.
Hunting rifles and shotguns are decidedly not designed to kill people, though they'd certainly make a better job of it than most military, "assault" weaponry, which tend to inflict clean, through-and-through wounds.