Any Pro-Gun Liberals?

[kai]

If we had a crystal ball, we could just relax and be happy. The one time in your life where a gun might solve a problem or perhaps save many lives, is not going to be in some dark alley or seedy neighborhood.

I believe the bottom line is, having a gun and being able to use it is having the power of life and death in your own hands. You are judge, jury, and executioner.

This is serious power. It must be respected. Many people believe they should not respect other people. They want to be attempted rapists, thieves and such. They want to rape and pillage with impunity.

How dare the legal gun owner demand respect by not being molested.

The criminals rights exceed the victims rights.

The right to self defense is under attack. We should endure a rape rather than set an example of what happens when you step over the line. What society really wants is no consequences for their actions.

thats why we have a legal system the bad guys go to jail and we dont lynch em. this is exactly why teenagers in my country carry a weapon to get "respect"

 

[Alceste]

Is it just me, or is it only men who are advocating shooting rapists in this thread? I'm curious what women think, as we're the most likely to be sexually assaulted by a HUGE margin. As it is, the fact that so far only men have advocated the extreme measure of punishing rape with death points more to a struggle to deal with a reaction to some kind of Freudian repression of violent libidic inclinations than a desire to protect women.

 

[Father Heathen]

I downplay it because the only "attempted rapes" I've faced were just awkward, unwelcome, drunken come-ons. They would have only been rape if I hadn't woken up. You see what I'm saying? And we're talking about life in general, here. Not one specific social group that happens to have more than its fair share of men who aren't aware it's inappropriate to attempt to have sex with a sleeping drunk woman. This is life. Particularly when I was younger. Are you saying I should not go to parties, just in case somebody tried to have sex with me without my permission? Or what? 1 in 4 women have been raped according to UK statistics. That indicates to me that avoiding situations where you might face attempted rape is probably a lost cause. Better to just live life prepared to kick someone's teeth in if they cross my boundaries and don't listen when I tell them to stop. Shooting rapists would be overkill, and considering the statistics on rape (1 in 4!), it likely also decimate the male population.

If you actually think most men have an inner-rapist ready to jump out, then you've been hanging around with the wrong kind of guys. "This is life?" There is nothing wrong with drinking or partying, but one could always be mindful and selective of where they party and who they party with.

 

[Father Heathen]

and yet we have people that feel the need to carry a gun concealed on their person,under the car seat ,or even at home, so to a lot of people it seems life in general, is a situation where you would need one.

Oh silly, nieve Kai. I think being prepared to protect your own home and family if the need arises is a bit different then going out to hang around with crowd of drunken, belligerent and aggressive men (who only account for a small percentage and don't reflect the average male).

 

[Father Heathen]

Is it just me, or is it only men who are advocating shooting rapists in this thread? I'm curious what women think, as we're the most likely to be sexually assaulted by a HUGE margin. As it is, the fact that so far only men have advocated the extreme measure of punishing rape with death points more to a struggle to deal with a reaction to some kind of Freudian repression of violent libidic inclinations than a desire to protect women.

Not "punishing". The idea was for a woman to be able to protect herself and to prevent herself from becoming a victim such she choose such an option. Of course if one ran into the lions den with raw meat strapped to them, I suppose it would be pointless. And while we're playing a game of armchair psychologist, I would imaging girls who repeatedly put themselves in risky situations while downplaying and dismissing the potential risks and results points to low self-esteem.

 

[Apex]

yes to make a fire with two sticks or how to tie a knot , not be prepared to shoot someones head off. thats more billy the kid than baden powell

Way to over exaggerate the point. You really do not understand the point of always being prepared, do you?
The point is to have a firearm (legally, passing any required tests, training and so on)IF the need may arise to use it, and use it responsibly. What part of that is so hard to understand?

 

[Father Heathen]

thats why we have a legal system the bad guys go to jail and we dont lynch em.

Does your legal system have psychic powers and teleportation technology to protect and prevent people from being victimized? I suppose in your society you blame the victim, too? "She dressed too sexy so it was her own fault."

 

[Alceste]

Not "punishing". The idea was for a woman to be able to protect herself and to prevent herself from becoming a victim such she choose such an option. Of course if one ran into the lions den with raw meat strapped to them, I suppose it would be pointless.

I think you should talk to other women about how frequent the occurrence of very drunk men getting overly amorous at university parties, camp-outs and ski trips might be. As far as I can judge, there is nothing unusual about my experiences. In fact, I have been extremely lucky compared my two closest friends.

It may not have filtered into the US yet, but in Canada the tradition of "blame the victim" is considered offensive.

And while we're playing a game of armchair psychologist, I would imaging girls who repeatedly put themselves in risky situations while downplaying and dismissing the potential risks and results points to low self-esteem.

Or a heightened sense of adventure, perhaps? Or even a combination of the two? I left home at 17 to work in a hotel in a ski resort, backpacked through Europe alone at 18, and still rarely turn down an invitation to a party. The offending guys were co-workers at the hotel and friends of my brother. This is not exactly strolling through the red light district in transparent platform shoes we're talking about. It is ordinary life. I don't mean to downplay the trauma of sexual assault. But, traumatic as it is, it's also apparently much more common than you think.

 

[kai]

Way to over exaggerate the point. You really do not understand the point of always being prepared, do you?
The point is to have a firearm (legally, passing any required tests, training and so on)IF the need may arise to use it, and use it responsibly. What part of that is so hard to understand?

its hard to understand or anyone who comes from a country where guns are banned, rare and only on the news.

 

[kai]

Does your legal system have psychic powers and teleportation technology to protect and prevent people from being victimized? no does your gun enable you to utilise these powers? I suppose in your society you blame the victim, too? "She dressed too sexy so it was her own fault."

No rapists are took to court and sentenced appropriately.

 

[kai]

Oh silly, nieve Kai. I think being prepared to protect your own home and family if the need arises is a bit different then going out to hang around with crowd of drunken, belligerent and aggressive men (who only account for a small percentage and don't reflect the average male).

i am prepared to protect my family, but as guns are so rare in this country the likelyhood of a raider entering my home with a firearm is too small for me to dwell on.

i think if i lived in your country i would think the same as you,and have a firearm ,(which makes me glad i live where i do)

i am lucky enough to live in a society where the vast majority of people have only seen a gun on tv that just about sums it up for me really . i am commenting even though i am not american but its your country you live it as you see fit.

 

[DarkSun]

If you actually think most men have an inner-rapist ready to jump out, then you've been hanging around with the wrong kind of guys. "This is life?" There is nothing wrong with drinking or partying, but one could always be mindful and selective of where they party and who they party with.

She's already said that most rapes occur in the domestic scene, so no, the one in four figure isn't indicative of what you're likely to experience at some party with a friend, I wouldn't think.

 

[DarkSun]

Oh silly, nieve Kai. I think being prepared to protect your own home and family if the need arises is a bit different then going out to hang around with crowd of drunken, belligerent and aggressive men (who only account for a small percentage and don't reflect the average male).

I actually agree with Kai on this. In the UK and pretty much every other country world-wide, it's almost unheard of to even see some criminal with a gun breaking the law. So why would you need to protect yourself against an imaginary race of people who happen to have guns?

But in retrospect, I'd think it'd be different in the US if they suddenly tried to ban guns. Just reading a few of the comments on here, I'm thinking that prohibition of fire-arms would result in every single person in the country getting the sudden desire to "want to protect themselves" and then go to the black market to get a gun. It would be better if no single person was allowed a gun to begin with. >_>

It's quite sad really...

 

[Alceste]

I think a ban on guns designed for killing people is sufficient. Farmers and rural dwellers in North America have bears, cougars and coyotes to deal with, and a lot of people hunt wild game. We have loads of guns in Canada, but very little gun crime. Generally, people don't seem inclined to hunt moose with a handgun or rob gas stations with a hunting rifle. But you could, theoretically, protect your family with a rifle if you felt the need.

 

[Alceste]

She's already said that most rapes occur in the domestic scene, so no, the one in four figure isn't indicative of what you're likely to experience at some party with a friend, I wouldn't think.

This is true. My three girlfriends who are rape victims were assaulted at home or by their boyfriends. I don't know anyone who was the victim of a random attack by a stranger.

 

[kai]

I think a ban on guns designed for killing people is sufficient. Farmers and rural dwellers in North America have bears, cougars and coyotes to deal with, and a lot of people hunt wild game. We have loads of guns in Canada, but very little gun crime. Generally, people don't seem inclined to hunt moose with a handgun or rob gas stations with a hunting rifle. But you could, theoretically, protect your family with a rifle if you felt the need.

well well we actually agree on something theres a first

 

[Alceste]

well well we actually agree on something theres a first

Hehe - don't get too comfortable!

 

[J Bryson]

I'm not exactly pro-gun (I don't own one), but I am pro-2nd amendment. I can't cherrypick the convenient ones from the Bill of Rights.

 

[Valjean]

I'm out in the woods in bear and cougar country frequently, but I never worry about them, actually I'd enjoy seeing them. I don't own a gun. I do carry a Swiss army knife -- but not for defensive purposes, obviously.
The chance of being injured by a fellow human is thousands of times greater than being attacked by a wild animal.

I've no problem with guns. They're rather fascinating devices actually, and I'm about as liberal as they get.
I don't think they have a very good record, though, in countering sudden attacks or robberies. In many cases alternative defense modalities would probably be much more effective.

 

[J Bryson]

I don't think of myself as especially prone to conspiracy theories or paranoia (I've studied both enough to be highly skeptical), but I can't help but have an intuitive pull towards the idea that an armed populace keeps the government in the hands of the people.