Apostates of Islam

[Gharib]

just a note to people who say Bin ladens motives are not religious.

they aren't. he is trying to use religion to get to the muslims, but it has nothing to do with it.

I will note that his motives are nothing to do with your Islam, but everything to do with his.

there is only one islam, the religion of Allah. so anyother thing that is outside this, is not islam, it can never be, why would you even think that?

 

[kai]

they aren't. he is trying to use religion to get to the muslims, but it has nothing to do with it.
OK


there is only one islam, the religion of Allah. so anyother thing that is outside this, is not islam, it can never be, why would you even think that?

I dont , he does.

 

[Gharib]

I dont , he does.

there are psychos amongst us. and when the media makes it big it just influences him more, thus the people belive he is actually telling what islam is and says. but thats not it. because he contradicts the quran with that statement that you posted.

 

[gnostic]

If Islam is willing to accept new converts, then people who leave them, because they lost faith in the religion, or change their minds, then they should be to leave freely, without dire consequences. Unfortunately Muslims are unwilling to let these apostates to leave freely, so Islam is more of prison for these people.

Muslims living in Western countries, can leave their faith with less problem (unless their family are fanatical, misguided honour and homicidal) then countries in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, where they face real of assault or death, if not arrest and execution because of strict adhere to the Sharia Law.

So do Islam tolerate apostates?

Depends on where you live, and I certainly wouldn't announce the apostasy if I was living in any of Middle Eastern countries.

Heck, you can even get arrested for possessing a bible in some countries, so who said that Islam tolerate other religions.

 

[ProudMuslim]

just a note to people who say Bin ladens motives are not religious.

Wow, do you really believe Al Qaeda is targetting America because it is a non-Muslim country?

So why choose America and not let's say Sweden or Norway ? If anything they are far way more "unislamic" than US.

Osama bin Laden: Made in USA

 

[England my lionheart]

I don't think it's because America is non Islamic,i think it's because of the strong links between the USA and Israel,read below:

Quote Bin Laden:
He said US President-elect Barack Obama has received a "heavy inheritance" from George W. Bush — two wars and "the collapse of the economy." He predicted that burden will render the US unable to sustain a long fight against the mujahedeen, or holy warriors.
There is "only one strong way to bring the return of Al-Aqsa and Palestine, and that is jihad in the path of God," Bin Laden said, referring to the revered Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. "The duty is to urge people to jihad and to enlist the youth into jihad brigades."

Well,as we can see,the motive is clearly religious just as the Al Aqsa Brigades in Palestines motive is clearly religious and in his peanut sized brain he really thinks by defeating the USA it will leave Israel isolated so "the Holy warriors" can take Jerusalem which i think you will agree is very unlikely,but it is all definately religious,from Hezbollah,Hamas,the Brigades,Islamic brotherhood etc.

 

[kai]

Wow, do you really believe Al Qaeda is targetting America because it is a non-Muslim country?

So why choose America and not let's say Sweden or Norway ? If anything they are far way more "unislamic" than US.

Osama bin Laden: Made in USA

He is targeting America because it is an enemy of His Islam , His Islamic ideology, His view of what Islam should be. To Bin Laden Most people are "unislamic"
1996
The latest and the greatest of these aggressions, incurred by the Muslims since the death of the Prophet (ALLAH'S BLESSING AND SALUTATIONS ON HIM) is the occupation of the land of the two Holy Places -the foundation of the house of Islam, the place of the revelation, the source of the message and the place of the noble Ka'ba, the Qiblah of all Muslims- by the armies of the American Crusaders and their allies. (We bemoan this and can only say: "No power and power acquiring except through Allah").

Online NewsHour: Bin Laden's Fatwa

 

[England my lionheart]

Just for light light relief i think this is a great cartoon: Bin Laden Has Nowhere To Run, Nowhere To Hide | MadBlast.com

 

[ProudMuslim]

He is targeting America because it is an enemy of His Islam , His Islamic ideology, His view of what Islam should be. To Bin Laden Most people are "unislamic"

Ok Kai. Let's assume you are right.

What does America have that makes it so anti-Islam that other Western countries don't? In other words, why is America is an enemy of his "Islam" but not Norway or Belgium?

don't think it's because America is non Islamic,i think it's because of the strong links between the USA and Israel,

Exactly, that is what Osama is conveying in his statements.

The media, specially the American, twist the whole thing into "clashes of civilizations" and "a holy war is waged on free nations because of their lifestyle and beliefs". Not that his motives and actions are justified to begin with but its silly when i read Sept 11 was in the name of religion. Yes in a way a jihad is allowed in Islam, but its has its conditions and targetting civilians is not permitted under any circumstances. But the real "excuse" he used was not religion rather the hostile US foreign policy in Middle East.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

whats your point Kai?

osama is not the muslims leader and anything he says has nothing to do with islam, i assume you do know this right?

Exactly! He has nothing to do with Islam. So when we are trying to defend ourselves from him and his followers, it also has nothing to do with Islam. We are not trying to fight against Islam. We're fighting people who claim to be speaking for Islam, but really have nothing to do with real Islam.

 

[England my lionheart]

ok kai. Let's assume you are right.

What does america have that makes it so anti-islam that other western countries don't? In other words, why is america is an enemy of his "islam" but not norway or belgium?

Simple,they are not allies of israel

exactly, that is what osama is conveying in his statements.

The media, specially the american, twist the whole thing into "clashes of civilizations" and "a holy war is waged on free nations because of their lifestyle and beliefs". Not that his motives and actions are justified to begin with but its silly when i read sept 11 was in the name of religion. Yes in a way a jihad is allowed in islam, but its has its conditions and targetting civilians is not permitted under any circumstances. But the real "excuse" he used was not religion rather the hostile us foreign policy in middle east.

it is in palestine

 

[ProudMuslim]

it is in palestine

Mainly but not only.

 

[England my lionheart]

Iran,Iraq,Syria and the lovely Lebanon

 

[England my lionheart]

Afghanistan,Uzbekistan

 

[Alla Prima]

Wow, do you really believe Al Qaeda is targetting America because it is a non-Muslim country?

So why choose America and not let's say Sweden or Norway ? If anything they are far way more "unislamic" than US.

Osama bin Laden: Made in USA

Sweden and Norway are being attacked with soft Jihad. Spain, England, France and other countries have been physically attacked. America is the 'Great Satan' so in their minds deserve top priority.

 

[England my lionheart]

Persuading Western Muslim leaders to repudiate Shari'a-sanctioned violence against apostates can be a frustrating exercise, as Prince Charles discovered in 2004. Troubled by the treatment of Muslims who convert to Christianity in Islamic nations, the prince convened a summit of senior figures from both religious communities. It ended in disappointment. The Islamic representatives failed to issue a declaration condemning the practice, which the Christians had requested; they also cautioned non-Muslims not to discuss such matters in public, arguing that moderates would be more likely to make progress if the debate were kept internal.
Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, the outspoken Anglican prelate of Rochester, attended the meeting but rejected their advice. While continuing to highlight the perils faced by those who leave Islam in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran, he now has turned his focus to the harassment of apostates in the West. Last year the bishop warned that a convert could die in Britain unless prominent Muslims affirm the right of all people to change their faith. There have been few takers, despite the dire need for this message: a poll indicates that 36% of younger British Muslims believe death to be an appropriate punishment for renouncing Islam.

 

[kai]

Ok Kai. Let's assume you are right.

What does America have that makes it so anti-Islam that other Western countries don't? In other words, why is America is an enemy of his "Islam" but not Norway or Belgium?

America is not Anti-Islam

Exactly, that is what Osama is conveying in his statements.
The support of Israel is one reason only, and what claim does he have to poke his nose into Palestine ? why a religious one of course!
The media, specially the American, twist the whole thing into "clashes of civilizations" and "a holy war is waged on free nations because of their lifestyle and beliefs". Not that his motives and actions are justified to begin with but its silly when i read Sept 11 was in the name of religion. Yes in a way a jihad is allowed in Islam, but its has its conditions and targetting civilians is not permitted under any circumstances. But the real "excuse" he used was not religion rather the hostile US foreign policy in Middle East.

I suggest you read his Fatwas again if you have missed his religious dialogue and i say he has his own version of Islam that gives him authority in his mind to call for the killing of Americans even civilians any time any place.

Its his and his follwers Jihad no one elses unless they wish it to be.

 

[Kodanshi]

Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, the outspoken Anglican prelate of Rochester, attended the meeting but rejected their advice. While continuing to highlight the perils faced by those who leave Islam in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran, he now has turned his focus to the harassment of apostates in the West. Last year the bishop warned that a convert could die in Britain unless prominent Muslims affirm the right of all people to change their faith. There have been few takers, despite the dire need for this message: a poll indicates that 36% of younger British Muslims believe death to be an appropriate punishment for renouncing Islam.

Shocking statistics, that! :sad:

 

[YmirGF]

Shocking statistics, that! :sad:

I'm surprised that the numbers are not higher, quite frankly.

 

[England my lionheart]

Scary stuff