• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Apparently - Two State Solution is not Palestinian Desire.

sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
No peoples are all the same. There are those, too few but some, on both sides who want peace. After all, peacemakers are blessed, are they not.


curse-the-darkness.jpg
 
LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Not in a very good position to tell one way or the other, but I have seen plenty of claims that, indeed, the Palestinians may not want a two-state solution.

It is not difficult to support the claim that they had been offered the opportunity several times since at least the 1940s and never found it good enough.

There is doubtlessly a lot of applicable nuance and circunstances that I can't even begin to guess, but I am under the impression that many Palestinians will feel offended by the idea that Israel might be accepted as a lasting, legitimate State.

Decades of blood and propaganda probably have reinforced that feeling. And it can't help that so many of them have lost family and friends to the conflict and blame Israel - perhaps even the abstract idea of the existence of Israel - for that.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
"Apparently - Two State Solution is not Palestinian Desire"
- @Kenny

LuisDantas said:
Not in a very good position to tell one way or the other, but I have seen plenty of claims that, indeed, the Palestinians may not want a two-state solution.
Click to expand...

First, that one might "apparently" arrive at conclusion based on some influencer's rather foolish antics in an arena of intense conflict is remarkable.

Second, everything depends on how the question is framed.
  • Do the majority of Palestinians want a just two-state solution implemented and sustained by a trustworthy partner. Almost certainly yes.
  • Do the majority of Palestinians, currently being terrorized in the the West Bank as they watch their mothers and fathers, brother's and sisters, aunts and uncles, and friends, slaughtered in Gaza, believe that such a trustworthy partner exists? Almost certainly no.
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
According to a fundamentalist, radical interpretation of their religion, we Europeans too are illegal occupiers of Europe, because all the world belongs to them, including Europe.
We should commit a mass suicide, and so Europe will be theirs only. :)
 
Last edited:
LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
According to a fundamentalist, radical interpretation of their religion, we Europeans too are illegal occupiers of Europe, because all the world belongs to them, including Europe.
We should commit a mass murder, and so Europe will be theirs only. :)
Click to expand...
What about at least trying to point out what you want to be taken seriously?
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
"Apparently - Two State Solution is not Palestinian Desire"
- @Kenny



First, that one might "apparently" arrive at conclusion based on some influencer's rather foolish antics in an arena of intense conflict is remarkable.
Click to expand...

I really don’t see why it was a “foolish” interview other than he put his life on the line. It was an “on the street” grassroots interview with no politician framing statements with falsehoods.

Jayhawker Soule said:
Second, everything depends on how the question is framed.
  • Do the majority of Palestinians want a just two-state solution implemented and sustained by a trustworthy partner. Almost certainly yes.
Click to expand...

This is where I would disagree. I would say that the media paints it that way, politicians are using that for their personal benefits and with ulterior motives.

I always wondered why time after time after time when Israel has said “yes” to the two state solution and given territory and other concessions, it never worked.

This would explain why. The true hearts where expressed when they said, “NO ISRAEL”!

Jayhawker Soule said:
  • Do the majority of Palestinians, currently being terrorized in the the West Bank as they watch their mothers and fathers, brother's and sisters, aunts and uncles, and friends, slaughtered in Gaza, believe that such a trustworthy partner exists? Almost certainly no.
Click to expand...

Even as they support Hamas, let them use their backyards, schoolyards, educational systems, et al for war purposes?

No… I think this video was raw and real.
 
Debater Slayer

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Kenny said:
Maybe that is why it won’t work?

www.foxnews.com

Influencer went to the West Bank to see if Palestinians support Hamas – he almost didn’t make it out alive

Influencer Zach Sage Fox traveled to the West Bank to see if Palestinian people truly support the Hamas terror group, but he almost didn’t make it out alive.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
Click to expand...

I have found that many American evangelical Zionists usually approach the issue from the premise that Israel should be the only state in the region (Israel-Palestine), hence some of them trying to accelerate and contribute to its hegemony over the whole land by any means. Because of this, trying to reason with them on the basis of human rights, Palestinians' right to self-determination, or other non-religious arguments often achieves nothing. Their ideology toward the conflict strikes me as genuinely cultlike—and I'm using that word in the literal rather than figurative sense—in its tribalism, rigid dogmatism, and dehumanization of the other.

Such fanatical expressions of evangelical Zionism often seem to me the mirror image of particularly fanatical Islamism, and as long as two fundamentalist, hardline camps see a holy war in the conflict and justify all manner of violence, including against civilians, on that basis, I think the only way to achieve peace would be for third parties and intermediaries to engage the more moderate groups and try to address their concerns.

What I have to say about the link you posted is exactly what @Jayhawker Soule succinctly and aptly said:

Jayhawker Soule said:
"Apparently - Two State Solution is not Palestinian Desire"
- @Kenny



First, that one might "apparently" arrive at conclusion based on some influencer's rather foolish antics in an arena of intense conflict is remarkable.

Second, everything depends on how the question is framed.
  • Do the majority of Palestinians want a just two-state solution implemented and sustained by a trustworthy partner. Almost certainly yes.
  • Do the majority of Palestinians, currently being terrorized in the the West Bank as they watch their mothers and fathers, brother's and sisters, aunts and uncles, and friends, slaughtered in Gaza, believe that such a trustworthy partner exists? Almost certainly no.
Click to expand...

But let me flip around the question here: if current evidence demonstrated that a majority of Palestinians supported a two-state solution, would you support that solution yourself? Why or why not?
 
LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
  • Do the majority of Palestinians want a just two-state solution implemented and sustained by a trustworthy partner. Almost certainly yes.
  • Do the majority of Palestinians, currently being terrorized in the the West Bank as they watch their mothers and fathers, brother's and sisters, aunts and uncles, and friends, slaughtered in Gaza, believe that such a trustworthy partner exists? Almost certainly no.
Click to expand...

No argument with the second point.

As for the first, I am sincerely very worried. I hope you are correct, but for decision making hope is probably not enough.

I fear that the communities in Gaza and in the West Bank may currently be ill equipped to even express their hopes and wishes to themselves, with such weak infrastructure and dubious and confused political representation.

I truly feel that more effort must be put into understanding their mindsets and working from there.
 
LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Debater Slayer said:
But let me flip around the question here: if current evidence demonstrated that a majority of Palestinians supported a two-state solution, would you support that solution yourself? Why or why not?
Click to expand...

You did not ask me, but that is IMO a very, very relevant question all the same. Forgive me for attempting to answer it then.

I want to believe that the two-state solution is possible. I fear and become horrified by the indications that many in the support base of the current Israeli government are simply not interested in pursuing it.

At the same time, I suspect that the challenges involved in even making a honest, solid attempt at gauging the wishes of the Palestinians are way too formidable, at least at the current time.

I sincerely wonder which form that evidence might conceivably take. Who could express that support for a two-state solution, and how would we learn that it is representative?

I strongly suspect that solid work is required at establishing better living conditions and infrastructure for those communities before trust in their political representation can be achieved. Starting, with course, with real assurance that they will not be blasted out of existence altogether...

Yes, that would probably influence their opinions as well. I can't say I find that a drawback.

But I fear that it will be the hardest of sells.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top