Arab race older than Jew race .

[Godobeyer]

Since Judaism isn't a race, and Ishmael didn't live in the Arabian peninsula, you would have to go back and redefine your terms for this to make any sense at all. This website gives some interesting history to the word "Arab" and connects it to a place, not a people.

I frequently heard here from the Jews here , that Jewish include ethinic and religion , of course YES Judaism is not race , it's religion ,it's religion of race ?

there are many websites , talking about this issue :
I think ,most of Jewish and Islamic sites agree about what I post .

 

[Godobeyer]

just question to Jews,Is not who convert to Judiasm become Jewish (race/religion) ?

 

[Godobeyer]

[/QUOTE]

Fixating on the term "race" in this thread strikes me as cheap polemic at best.

I don't mean to offend , i just post this thread because i said to my self since Ishmeal (pbuh) the father of Arabs ,born before Isaac(pbuh) the father of Jews , so Arabs race is older .that's it .

 

[rosends]

I frequently heard here from the Jews here , that Jewish include ethinic and religion , of course YES Judaism is not race , it's religion ,it's religion of race ?

there are many websites , talking about this issue :
I think ,most of Jewish and Islamic sites agree about what I post .

Judaism is a religion, a heritage and an ethnicity. It has genetic components. But it is not a race unless you are redefining race.

 

[Godobeyer]

If my mother had given birth to a different race sibling I think my father would have been pretty perturbed...

Race is bunk. I thought both Arabs and Hebrews were ethnically Semitic.

Just want to anlyse your last sentence:

"Race is bunk, I though both Arabs "Race" and Hebrews"Race" were ethnically "Race-lly" semitic "Race"

by the way I can say All Muslims and Chrisitans and Jews are semitic , because they followed semitic religions .

 

[rosends]

That assumes Abraham and his ancestors were not Jews. I'm pretty sure a Jewish person would think they were Jews. And Ishmael was only half Jewish, his mother would have been what we call today Palestinian or pagan arab??

Strictly speaking, Abraham and his ancestors were not Jews -- 2 reasons:

They were not bound by the laws which define Judaism (the Sinaitic code) -- though the rabbis explain that Abe was a monotheist who held himself to SOME of the laws which would later compose Judaism, he did so voluntarily (as did Isaac and Jacob).

The term "Jew" only makes sense to label someone after the post-Solomonic split when the nations of Israel and Judah divided and the Kingdom of Israel was lost.

 

[Lyndon]

So Isaac was no more the first Jew, than Ishmael was the first Muslim. But Abraham was the father of many nations!!

 

[rosends]

So Isaac was no more the first Jew, than Ishmael was the first Muslim. But Abraham was the father of many nations!!

I would agree with that but a Muslim might say (though I hesitate trying to make someone else's point) that since "Islam" means "submission to God" simply being a monotheist like Abraham makes him a "Muslim" (maybe the differentiation would be "muslim" vs. "Muslim") even though he was around well before the code of Islamic law was established.

 

[Lyndon]

Correct, well said.

 

[Flankerl]

As someone with Jewish heritage I just can't agree with that statement. I'm of Ashkenazi decent. There couldn't be much more difference in characteristics between Ashkenazi Jews and Arabs.

"What are Mizrahim?"

Both Phonetically and Genetically Arabs and Jews(including Ashkenazim) share a lot of similarities, whether you like it or not.

I know that hurts the Evangelical in you but such is life.

OK. Therefore?

Pretty much this regarding the thread.

Ok, therefore?

 

[Godobeyer]

So Isaac was no more the first Jew, than Ishmael was the first Muslim. But Abraham was the father of many nations!!

Isaac (pbuh) is the first Jew ;yes Abraham was father of many nations

all the prophets are Muslims , because all they are messangers of GOD , they surrender to him .

 

[Godobeyer]

Judaism is a religion, a heritage and an ethnicity. It has genetic components. But it is not a race unless you are redefining race.

For my opinion the word ethnic is the most word close to race .
since Judiasm accept the atheist whom born from jewish mother as Jew

 

[Godobeyer]

So Isaac was no more the first Jew, than Ishmael was the first Muslim. But Abraham was the father of many nations!!

Isaac (pbuh) is the first Jew ;yes Abraham was father of many nations

all the prophets are Muslims , because all they are messangers of GOD , they surrender to him .

 

[Godobeyer]

Judaism is a religion, a heritage and an ethnicity. It has genetic components. But it is not a race unless you are redefining race.

For my opinion the word ethnic is the most word close to race .
since Judiasm accept the atheist whom born from jewish mother as Jew

 

[Koldo]

Isaac (pbuh) is the first Jew ;yes Abraham was father of many nations

all the prophets are Muslims , because all they are messangers of GOD , they surrender to him .

If you are going to call Isaac a jew, why not call Abraham a jew too?
What is the basis for this distinction being drawn?

 

[Godobeyer]

If you are going to call Isaac a jew, why not call Abraham a jew too?
What is the basis for this distinction being drawn?

God in Quran and Bible said Abraham (pbuh) not a Jew .

God made distinction labels .

 

[rosends]

For my opinion the word ethnic is the most word close to race .
since Judiasm accept the atheist whom born from jewish mother as Jew

That still begs a definition of race.

 

[Koldo]

God in Quran and Bible said Abraham (pbuh) not a Jew .

God made distinction labels .

Can you quote where in the bible/quran ( both if possible ) god says that Abraham is not a jew ? And where does it state that Isaac is a jew?

 

[rosends]

I would be curious to see that also, especially if it uses language labels which would not have been around in either Abraham or Isaac's time and makes a theological label which isn't relevant to either of them.

 

[Godobeyer]

Can you quote where in the bible/quran ( both if possible ) god says that Abraham is not a jew ? And where does it state that Isaac is a jew?

Judaism came after Abraham (pbuh) .


(Gen. 35:23). Jacob was one of Isaac’s two sons (Gen. 25:26). Isaac was one of Abraham’s two sons (Gen. 21:3). Abraham was, therefore, Judah’s great-grandfather. He was not a Jew, but was rather one of their ancestors, and should appropriately be called a Hebrew (a descendant of Eber—Gen. 11:17-26).
from this link
Was Abraham a Jew?

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, known as the Patriarchs, are both the physical and spiritual ancestors of Judaism. They founded the religion now known as Judaism, and their descendants are the Jewish people. Of course, technically, it is incorrect to refer to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as Jews, because the terms "Jew" and "Judaism" were not used generally to refer to this nation until hundreds of years after their time; nevertheless, for convenience and in accordance with common practice, I will use these terms.

from this link
Judaism 101: The Patriarchs and the Origins of Judaism