Arab race older than Jew race .

[Avi1001]

I said again i never mean who superior .

do you mean when i used the word "comes first " i mean by it's " born first" !!!!

my point is Arabs and Jews are same roots , but in zooming/detail in small familly (Abraham(pbuh)Sara(pbuh)Hajar(pbuh)Isaac(pbuh)Ishmeal(pbuh) ) , since Ishmael (pbuh) came first, so the Arabs came/born first ." to life"

....understatement !!!!, how about "confession" , you must be kidding right ?
I said i used Christians and Jewish sources , they had different view !

....and using your logic....leads to....again...that Arabs are the superior race....what else could this thread be about...??.....is it an appeal for interfaith equality ???

 

[-Peacemaker-]

"What are Mizrahim?"

Both Phonetically and Genetically Arabs and Jews(including Ashkenazim) share a lot of similarities, whether you like it or not.

I know that hurts the Evangelical in you but such is life.

If anything it hurts the Jew in me. I'm not one of these Evangelicals that's a huge supporter of Israel on religious grounds. I support Israel but it has nothing to do with religion

 

[Godobeyer]

....and using your logic....leads to....again...that Arabs are the superior race....what else could this thread be about...??.....is it an appeal for interfaith equality ???

again this is not about superior race .
My logic based on the sources even some Jewish sources , which said Ishmeal (pbuh) is born first , he is the father of the Arabs .

and your sources which tell that God promised Hajar and Ishmeal (pbuh) to become great nation (Muslims).

 

[Godobeyer]

If anything it hurts the Jew in me. I'm not one of these Evangelicals that's a huge supporter of Israel on religious grounds. I support Israel but it has nothing to do with religion

You support Isreal because God will resent Jesus (pbuh) to Jews .not to the Christians right ?

Or because they are Chosen people forever , you just followers ?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It is easier to think of the early Jewish people as cousins to the other semitic or Arabic peoples. Genetically they are totally mixed.

 

[YmirGF]

This has been, without question, the most relevant, intelligent, and on-point post in this whole thread.

B I N G O

 

[Godobeyer]

B I N G O

Really weird , i see no BINGO !!!

 

[YmirGF]

Really weird , i see no BINGO !!!

English humor is often lost in translation, godobeyer. It's a euphemism for saying that one agrees wholeheartedly with a given point.

 

[Godobeyer]

English humor is often lost in translation, godobeyer. It's a euphemism for saying that one agrees wholeheartedly with a given point.

thanks for explian ,I knew that meaning.
I am fan of American movies and TV shows, sometimes i learn some humor or slang expresions .

 

[dantech]

This is quite the useless thread but just to humor you, what exactly made Isaac the first Jew?

 

[Moishe3rd]

again this is not about superior race .
My logic based on the sources even some Jewish sources , which said Ishmeal (pbuh) is born first , he is the father of the Arabs .

and your sources which tell that God promised Hajar and Ishmeal (pbuh) to become great nation (Muslims).

Here's the problem - you want to quote Torah sources to explain that Yishmael was first and was destined to become a "great nation."
Peachy keen. Gotcha. No problemo.
And, what do you make of the Torah source that says that Yishmael was a Wild Beast Man whose hand is against every man and whose face is against his brothers?
??
Just curious.

This question has been asked and studied for the last 3,000 years.
One response is:
Rabbi Shlomo Dichovsky, zt'zl, in the introduction to his book,” Neot Desha,” recounts a visit to the Chofetz Chaim (one of the great sages of Israel) in order to ask him about moving to Israel at a time of clear and present danger (this was in 1933).
At one point, the Chofetz Chaim says:

“The holy Torah tells us regarding Ishmael that he is a ‘Pere Adam,’ a wild beast of a man. It is known that our Torah is eternal, and if it says about Ishmael that he is a wild beast of a man, then Ishmael will remain forever a wild beast of a man. Even if all of the cultured nations of the world will gather together and try to educate Ishmael and transform him into a cultured individual, so that he will no longer be a wild beast of a man, obviously this will be impossible in every fashion or form. They will not be able to do this through any means whatsoever, because he is not capable of being a cultured individual, for behold, the Torah testified regarding him that he is a wild beast of a man. This means that forever, for all eternity; Ishmael is by definition a wild beast of a man. Even if Ishmael will be involved in intellectual endeavor, like being a lawyer, or some similar profession, then he will be a beastly lawyer. If he will study diligently to be a professor, then he will be a beastly professor. This means that the bestiality of Ishmael will never cease.”
Then the Chofetz Chaim let out a long, painful sigh and said,

“Who knows what this wild beast of a man is capable of perpetrating against the Jewish people in the end of days?”

Food for thought regarding your Arab ancestor, Yishmael.

 

[melk]

Here's the problem - you want to quote Torah sources to explain that Yishmael was first and was destined to become a "great nation."
Peachy keen. Gotcha. No problemo.
And, what do you make of the Torah source that says that Yishmael was a Wild Beast Man whose hand is against every man and whose face is against his brothers?
??
Just curious.

This question has been asked and studied for the last 3,000 years.
One response is:
Rabbi Shlomo Dichovsky, zt'zl, in the introduction to his book,” Neot Desha,” recounts a visit to the Chofetz Chaim (one of the great sages of Israel) in order to ask him about moving to Israel at a time of clear and present danger (this was in 1933).
At one point, the Chofetz Chaim says:

“The holy Torah tells us regarding Ishmael that he is a ‘Pere Adam,’ a wild beast of a man. It is known that our Torah is eternal, and if it says about Ishmael that he is a wild beast of a man, then Ishmael will remain forever a wild beast of a man. Even if all of the cultured nations of the world will gather together and try to educate Ishmael and transform him into a cultured individual, so that he will no longer be a wild beast of a man, obviously this will be impossible in every fashion or form. They will not be able to do this through any means whatsoever, because he is not capable of being a cultured individual, for behold, the Torah testified regarding him that he is a wild beast of a man. This means that forever, for all eternity; Ishmael is by definition a wild beast of a man. Even if Ishmael will be involved in intellectual endeavor, like being a lawyer, or some similar profession, then he will be a beastly lawyer. If he will study diligently to be a professor, then he will be a beastly professor. This means that the bestiality of Ishmael will never cease.”
Then the Chofetz Chaim let out a long, painful sigh and said,

“Who knows what this wild beast of a man is capable of perpetrating against the Jewish people in the end of days?”

Food for thought regarding your Arab ancestor, Yishmael.

Food for hatred, too.

 

[Levite]

Here's the problem - you want to quote Torah sources to explain that Yishmael was first and was destined to become a "great nation."
Peachy keen. Gotcha. No problemo.
And, what do you make of the Torah source that says that Yishmael was a Wild Beast Man whose hand is against every man and whose face is against his brothers?
??
Just curious.

This question has been asked and studied for the last 3,000 years.
One response is:
Rabbi Shlomo Dichovsky, zt'zl, in the introduction to his book,” Neot Desha,” recounts a visit to the Chofetz Chaim (one of the great sages of Israel) in order to ask him about moving to Israel at a time of clear and present danger (this was in 1933).
At one point, the Chofetz Chaim says:

“The holy Torah tells us regarding Ishmael that he is a ‘Pere Adam,’ a wild beast of a man. It is known that our Torah is eternal, and if it says about Ishmael that he is a wild beast of a man, then Ishmael will remain forever a wild beast of a man. Even if all of the cultured nations of the world will gather together and try to educate Ishmael and transform him into a cultured individual, so that he will no longer be a wild beast of a man, obviously this will be impossible in every fashion or form. They will not be able to do this through any means whatsoever, because he is not capable of being a cultured individual, for behold, the Torah testified regarding him that he is a wild beast of a man. This means that forever, for all eternity; Ishmael is by definition a wild beast of a man. Even if Ishmael will be involved in intellectual endeavor, like being a lawyer, or some similar profession, then he will be a beastly lawyer. If he will study diligently to be a professor, then he will be a beastly professor. This means that the bestiality of Ishmael will never cease.”
Then the Chofetz Chaim let out a long, painful sigh and said,

“Who knows what this wild beast of a man is capable of perpetrating against the Jewish people in the end of days?”

Food for thought regarding your Arab ancestor, Yishmael.

^^^Oy yoy yoy!

That kind of xenophobic polemical drashing serves no one in the long run.

 

[Moishe3rd]

Food for hatred, too.

Try not to... Bad for your digestion and for humanity in general.

 

[Godobeyer]

Here's the problem - you want to quote Torah sources to explain that Yishmael was first and was destined to become a "great nation."
Peachy keen. Gotcha. No problemo.
And, what do you make of the Torah source that says that Yishmael was a Wild Beast Man whose hand is against every man and whose face is against his brothers?
??
Just curious.

This question has been asked and studied for the last 3,000 years.
One response is:
Rabbi Shlomo Dichovsky, zt'zl, in the introduction to his book,” Neot Desha,” recounts a visit to the Chofetz Chaim (one of the great sages of Israel) in order to ask him about moving to Israel at a time of clear and present danger (this was in 1933).
At one point, the Chofetz Chaim says:

“The holy Torah tells us regarding Ishmael that he is a ‘Pere Adam,’ a wild beast of a man. It is known that our Torah is eternal, and if it says about Ishmael that he is a wild beast of a man, then Ishmael will remain forever a wild beast of a man. Even if all of the cultured nations of the world will gather together and try to educate Ishmael and transform him into a cultured individual, so that he will no longer be a wild beast of a man, obviously this will be impossible in every fashion or form. They will not be able to do this through any means whatsoever, because he is not capable of being a cultured individual, for behold, the Torah testified regarding him that he is a wild beast of a man. This means that forever, for all eternity; Ishmael is by definition a wild beast of a man. Even if Ishmael will be involved in intellectual endeavor, like being a lawyer, or some similar profession, then he will be a beastly lawyer. If he will study diligently to be a professor, then he will be a beastly professor. This means that the bestiality of Ishmael will never cease.”
Then the Chofetz Chaim let out a long, painful sigh and said,

“Who knows what this wild beast of a man is capable of perpetrating against the Jewish people in the end of days?”

Food for thought regarding your Arab ancestor, Yishmael.

EDITED


that's Torah contradictions , God blessing Ishmael (pbuh) and God insulting Ishmael (pbuh) ? !!! that weird and interensting . so God had two faces in Torah !!!!

 

[Moishe3rd]

^^^Oy yoy yoy!

That kind of xenophobic polemical drashing serves no one in the long run.

I can only hypothesize that your platitudinous polemic alludes to my post?
If so, do you actually believe that both quoting Torah and the Chofetz Chaim's opinion "serves no one?"
Really?
I thought it was rather poignantly to the point.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I can only hypothesize that your platitudinous polemic alludes to my post?

Your post is xenophobic rubbish and incitement, and reflects an agenda more than an understanding. So for example, Plaut notes:

Wild ***. פֶּרֶא (pere), also known as onager. The Israeli species became extinct a hundred years ago, but its nearest relative, the Asiatic wild ***, has recently been reintroduced in the Negev. Known for its fierce independence (see Jer. 2:24), the פֶּרֶא foreshadows Ishmael's freedom-loving descendants who will inhabit the desert.​

 

[columbus]

No , I don't mean who is superior .

I do agree with you , that we should work together for peace .

Would it not be reasonable to expect the older and much much bigger "brother" to take the most responsibility for bringing about peace?

Say, a billion or two Muslims finding a way for the Palestinian people to get on with secure and prosperous lives instead of fighting little brother for some land that was no big deal a century ago?

Tom

 

[Moishe3rd]

Your post is xenophobic rubbish and incitement, and reflects an agenda more than an understanding. So for example, Plaut notes:

Wild ***. פֶּרֶא (pere), also known as onager. The Israeli species became extinct a hundred years ago, but its nearest relative, the Asiatic wild ***, has recently been reintroduced in the Negev. Known for its fierce independence (see Jer. 2:24), the פֶּרֶא foreshadows Ishmael's freedom-loving descendants who will inhabit the desert.​

Plaut is hardly an authority on the Torah.
And, my agenda was to point out that if one wants to quote the bible regarding Yismael being older and becoming a great nation, one might also want to understand the biblical passage that Yishmael is also a pere Adom. Which, of course, it would behoove Plaut or any other scholar to understand does NOT mean, as quoted by the Chofetz Chaim, "a wild beast of a man." That would be an "Adom pere."
A pere Adom in Hebrew means a Beast that looks like a man. A Wild that looks like a man. That concept is rather difficult and torturous to put into English or most languages so, pere Adom became a "wild beast of a man."

 

[Godobeyer]

Would it not be reasonable to expect the older and much much bigger "brother" to take the most responsibility for bringing about peace?

Say, a billion or two Muslims finding a way for the Palestinian people to get on with secure and prosperous lives instead of fighting little brother for some land that was no big deal a century ago?

Tom

We all want peace , we have no problem with Jews as race or religion , we have disagree with their actions inside Israel and military action West Bank and Gaza .

Israel is taking control on the ground so it's most responsiblity is on Israeli gouverment .

Israel had big sponsor politic or economic AIPAC which dominate USA politics .

so reponsibility on all , especially who had control in land , threat the others by having nuclear weapons .

now ,don't you have a message for Jews , especially Jew Israelis ?