Are All Ten Commandments Binding on WHO?

[Wandered Off]

Did it ever occur to you that you are not qualified to write this thread? I do not want to be mean but, if you are an atheist, how can you discus points of a religion that you do not believe in?

Perhaps the same way you discussed SDA beliefs in another thread?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The commandments are binding on anyone who hears them. It's like if you're a kid and you aren't aware of the laws. If you do something wrong, but didn't know it was wrong, there isn't any guilt. But if you know that there are things you shouldn't do and do them anyway, that's breaking a law.

That's not a Scriptural position, either New or Old. in the old testament they were binding only the the Children of Israel. In the New Testament the Mosaic Laws were fulfilled in Christ and were no longer binding on anyone.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

That's not a very NT thing to say.

I disagree but you could try and make a scriptural case as to why I am wrong.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Yid613 ~ says "the Seven laws of Noah were given and are binding on all" Noah never lived, Noah never had a ark to float around in on water that covered the earth, Noah's deluge never happened so what ever Noah was to have said he really never said it. Please give us a date for Noah's deluge. There is a city in Lebanon called Byblos - people have been living continuously in it for the last 5000 years. Old Jericho had the first people living in it over 11,000 years ago and there was over 22 cities rebuilt on old Jerich down to about 500 years before Jesus. So please don't insult me by saying Noah said such in such. Noah and the deluge and the biblical creation and Adam and Eve and the first few ch. of Genesis never really was alive in the last 11,000 years.

At the north pole in the Artic during the summer there is no evening, sun disapering from view, and morning, sun comes into view. It is daylight all the time and the same for winter darkess all the time, no evening or morning. If a Israelite of 4000 years ago was in the artic at 40 degress below zero on the Sabbath he might freeze to death because he was not to build a fire on the Sabbath day or he might die of starvation because he might not eat the blubber.

That's not a Scriptural position.

 

[InGodWeTrust]

Perhaps the same way you discussed SDA beliefs in another thread?

He can do whatever he wants. I am not talking about it in a technical way, as in how it has to fit into the forum. I do not care about that. I just mean it in a general sense, like in any kind of situation. What I mean, is if I wanted to have a discussion about religion, I would not go to an Atheist.
My main point is what I said in my post. It should be very clear and self evident.
The Sabbath is the commemoration of the Creation. If you do not believe in the creation, that should be the end of the discussion. It makes no sense to even talk about it.
If someone is just annoyed by the fact that other people do believe it, well nice but get some professional help.

 

[AK4]

I think this represents a fairly mainline evangelical line, although a misguided one insofar as it tries to accommodate Jesus' strange sermon by making it somehow a clumsy parroting of Paul's theology (as understood by Calvin). This attitude is betrayed in AK4's post by the fact that he quickly leaves Jesus behind and emphasizes Paul. This is an unfortunate evangelical habit. I think some comments are in order here.

Accomodate? Strange sermon? Clumsy? Paul's theology (as understood by calvin)? And leave Jesus behind emphasizes Paul? Evangelical? As for that i will address that in my next post. Now I think some comments are in order HERE.

Jesus didn't chastise the Pharisees because they didn't keep the Sabbath well enough or follow any of the other laws well enough. He chastised them for forgetting compassion in the implementation of justice.

Is that it? Lets see.

Mt 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
Why did John say this to them? Because they dont produce fruit that brings repentance.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. ( I smell pride in here)Mt 12:34 - You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica](Is Jesus saying that they just dont have compassion or is He saying that they are filled with evil? :yes [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]And gee, I wonder how much more Jesus has to say about these only uncompassionate pharisees, scribes and for our day, theologians[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Matthew 23:13-33 13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it. 23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. 25 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. 27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. 29 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers! 33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! [/FONT]

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus was not spiritualizing the law, as if the Pharisees were concerned only with outward actions rather than inward intentions. (This is a gross mischaracterization of the Pharisees that is not supported by the NT text, not to mention general history)

.

Oh really, then i guess what i just quoted from Jesus is "spiritualizing" away how He felt about their ways. Your words GREATLY contradict Jesus' words.

But, just as any of these other groups would have been doing, he was calling his people to a high level of commitment by reminding them the high calling the law set before them.

I agree. Sounds like He was telling them to focus on the spiritual and not the physical. Why?

Joh 6:63 -It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Now Jesus is spiritualizing too. Was his Sermon on the Mount spiritual teachings or literal? If literal, then go and gouge out your eye!

Moreover, the Pharisees never thought that it was possible to keep all the points of the law consistently over their lifetime. So Jesus wasn't correcting them on that point. And Jesus wasn't pressing that point home to demonstrate the sinfulness of those who listened to his sermon. Such a demonstration wasn't necessary. Jewish theology of the day took for granted that people sin regularly and required God's forgiveness. What else was the temple for if not to facilitate that forgiveness? Indeed, Jesus says absolutely nothing about soteriology (theory of salvation) as such in the Sermon.

Never thought it was possible? Yeah right. They thought they were doing it perfectly.
Uuuh, what scripture did i just quote? Is His words life? You are right, He says nothing about a theory of salvation. HE IS THE SALVATION AND NO THEORY TO HIM. HE IS THE WORD. HE IS THE SAVIOUR. HE WILLS THAT ALL MEN BE SAVED. (1 TIM 2:4)

Jesus was correcting them on every point!

Jesus' solution was not "spiritual" as opposed to....whatever you are contrasting it with. Jesus expected Israel (actually, the reconstituted and reformulated "Israel" with him at the center and as head) to follow the commandments, I think.(emphasis mine) But he wanted the people to keep mercy at the center of them.

Thats right YOU think. Nothing i put here is MY opinion. It is the Word of God. It is scripture. Jesus solution was not spiritual? Come on now. Jesus was and still is putting emphasis on the spiritual and not the physical. "The flesh profits nothing". Is he a liar when he says this? Come now.

As for the rest of humanity who do not acknowledge YHWH or Jesus as Lord, it's hard to say how the Ten Commandments would apply to them. The Commandments were given as part of a covenant. If you're not a party to the covenant, how can the terms of that covenant apply to you?

Just simply it applies to everyone, everywhere. Is God just the God of the Isrealites or of the whole world?

 

[AK4]

That last post by me was a reply to Dunemiesters reply to me on the first page.

 

[AK4]

Quote:
I think this represents a fairly mainline evangelical line, although a misguided one insofar as it tries to accommodate Jesus' strange sermon by making it somehow a clumsy parroting of Paul's theology (as understood by Calvin). This attitude is betrayed in AK4's post by the fact that he quickly leaves Jesus behind and emphasizes Paul. This is an unfortunate evangelical habit. I think some comments are in order here.

Accomodate? Strange sermon? Clumsy? Paul's theology (as understood by calvin)? And leave Jesus behind, emphasizes Paul? Evangelical?

Now as promised,
Evangelical-- I am not trying to bring anyone to Christ nor could I. Why?
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
I just refute those who contradict.

Okay now for the rest. Leave behind Jesus for Pauls teachings huh?
Lets see (Red=Jesus, Black= Paul)
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
2 Thess 2:4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Th 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

I could go on and on with this. Paul taught what Jesus taught him. All i know of calvin is that he murdered some people to get HIS views across not the Word.

And a strange Sermon to you indeed it must be. Going by your post you know very little about HIs Word and what Paul was inspired to write by His Spirit. You know little of the Spirit. You dont know that Jesus' Words are Spirit.

May God open your eyes one day and let you be able to see the spirit in His Word

Anthony

ps two mores verses for you
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[ChristineES]

The 10 commandments are not binding on anyone automatically, and some are quite offensive to atheists.

Which of the Ten Commandments could possibly be offensive to atheists? The Ten Commandments don't apply to atheists anyway. :no: I have listed them below (edited for content, so it would easier to read). I can understand the first three, since you don't believe in any god, but how can not stealing, honoring your parents, not coveting, not murdering, not bearing false witness, and so on be offensive?:help:

You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy
Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.

 

[Dunemeister]

I disagree but you could try and make a scriptural case as to why I am wrong.

But be doers of the word, and not merely hearers who deceive themselves. For if any are hearers of the word and not doers, they are like those who look at themselves in a mirror; for they look at themselves and, on going away, immediately forget what they were like. But those who look into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and persevere, being not hearers who forget but doers who act—they will be blessed in their doing. If any think they are religious, and do not bridle their tongues but deceive their hearts, their religion is worthless.
James 1:22-26

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill’, and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. But someone will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith without works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith without works is barren? Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, ‘Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness’, and he was called the friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. Likewise, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another road? For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.
James 2:14-26

So, according to James, your faith is useless if you don't obey the commandments of God. I'd also point out that Paul agrees. Paul critiqued the Law as being unable to produce true righteousness, working as it did through sinful flesh. But following the Law is not optional for Christians. It's entirely mandatory. Preaching otherwise is that much-maligned "other gospel" Paul inveighed against and called curses down upon.

 

[Dunemeister]

Quote:
I think this represents a fairly mainline evangelical line, although a misguided one insofar as it tries to accommodate Jesus' strange sermon by making it somehow a clumsy parroting of Paul's theology (as understood by Calvin). This attitude is betrayed in AK4's post by the fact that he quickly leaves Jesus behind and emphasizes Paul. This is an unfortunate evangelical habit. I think some comments are in order here.

Accomodate? Strange sermon? Clumsy? Paul's theology (as understood by calvin)? And leave Jesus behind, emphasizes Paul? Evangelical?

Now as promised,
Evangelical-- I am not trying to bring anyone to Christ nor could I. Why?
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
I just refute those who contradict.

Okay now for the rest. Leave behind Jesus for Pauls teachings huh?
Lets see (Red=Jesus, Black= Paul)
Mat 23:8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
2 Thess 2:4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Joh 8:32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Th 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

I could go on and on with this. Paul taught what Jesus taught him. All i know of calvin is that he murdered some people to get HIS views across not the Word.

And a strange Sermon to you indeed it must be. Going by your post you know very little about HIs Word and what Paul was inspired to write by His Spirit. You know little of the Spirit. You dont know that Jesus' Words are Spirit.

May God open your eyes one day and let you be able to see the spirit in His Word

Anthony

ps two mores verses for you
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Colossal exercise in missing the point.

 

[AK4]

Colossal exercise in missing the point.

Ro 11:8 -as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."

 

[Ben Masada]

Ro 11:8 -as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I do not believe God would interfere with man's freewill as to prevent him from reasoning, understanding or listening. We are the ones who have chosen not to.
Ben

 

[AK4]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I do not believe God would interfere with man's freewill as to prevent him from reasoning, understanding or listening. We are the ones who have chosen not to.
Ben

As in the good words of a dear friend, Oh really. And how pray tell do you have free will? What can you will on your own without any other cause or out of nothing? Can you will yourself to God?

Ah the devil has many decieved that they can sit in the temple of God and claim they are a god and exalt themselves above anything that is called God. What can your will do outside of Gods Will? How can mankinds "free will" thwart the Will of God?

Now listen, mankind has a will. We can make choices. But our will and choices are not free from any cause. Choices...There is A cause that make you choose something, rather consciencely or subconsciencely.
Jesus didnt even have a free will. Look up the scriptures.
What have you ever done on your own that you manifested out of your supposed free will? Is there a scripture that says we have a free will? If you got a free will that can thwart the Will of God, then free will yourself out of death. "For it is once for me to die, after that Judgement". You dont like Paul and dismiss him as not inspired by God to write what he wrote in his letters, but if thats not a Truth from God-"For it is once for men to die, after that Judgement"--THEN FREE WILL YOURSELF OUT OF DEATH.:foot::foot::foot::foot:

Ps 37:23The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
Jer 10:23 -O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Job 14:1-6 1 Man that is born of a woman is of few F72 days, and full of trouble. 2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not. 3 And dost thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee? 4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. 5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass; 6 Turn from him, that he may rest, F73 till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.

Choices...There is A cause that make you choose something, rather consciencely or subconsciencely. You know cause and effect.

 

[Ben Masada]

As in the good words of a dear friend, Oh really. And how pray tell do you have free will? What can you will on your own without any other cause or out of nothing? Can you will yourself to God?

+++Ben: - Most definitely! I can will myself to God, as I have been doing for many years through my studies of Him and my application of the Golden Rule with regards to my fellow man.

Ah the devil has many decieved that they can sit in the temple of God and claim they are a god and exalt themselves above anything that is called God. What can your will do outside of Gods Will? How can mankinds "free will" thwart the Will of God?

+++Ben: - I am sorry AK4, I don't think you will ever understand this. Let me try once more by being a little gross: Do you believe that I can commit suicide any time I want and finish with my life? If you say I cannot, I rest my case with you. You will never understand othewise.

Now listen, mankind has a will. We can make choices. But our will and choices are not free from any cause. Choices...There is A cause that make you choose something, rather consciencely or subconsciencely.

+++Ben: - Our freewill is absolutely free. Otherwise it would not be called free. The only thing that may modify the use of our freewill is the fear for the consequences. But if we are ready to suffer whatever the outcome, even that won't be on the way.

Jesus didnt even have a free will. Look up the scriptures.

+++Ben: - Jesus didn't have a freewill! In that case he was not a man but a robbot. He had freewill and he decided to conform it to God's will.

What have you ever done on your own that you manifested out of your supposed free will?

+++Ben: - Everything. Anything I do is out of my freewill.

Is there a scripture that says we have a free will? If you got a free will that can thwart the Will of God, then free will yourself out of death. "For it is once for me to die, after that Judgement". You dont like Paul and dismiss him as not inspired by God to write what he wrote in his letters, but if thats not a Truth from God-"For it is once for men to die, after that Judgement"--THEN FREE WILL YOURSELF OUT OF DEATH.:foot::foot::foot::foot:

+++Ben: - THEN FREEWILL YOURSELF OUT OF DEATH! Can I freewill myself out of being born? No, because it does not depend on me. Both: To be born and to die do not depend on me. But Whatever depends on me, it becomes up to me.

+++Ben: - Take a look at Genesis 4:6,7. Cain was planning to kill Abel and God warned him of the consequences of his crime, but He did not twist his nature or deleted his freewill. Cain didn't care about the consequences and carried out his plans.

+++Ben: - Take a look at Deuteronomy 30:19. God has set before us life and death, blessing and cursing, and suggests to us to choose life that we may live. He does not force the issue or neutralizes our freewill. He leaves entirely up to us to choose whatever we wish.

Ps 37:23The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
Jer 10:23 -O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Job 14:1-6 1 Man that is born of a woman is of few F72 days, and full of trouble. 2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not. 3 And dost thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee? 4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. 5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass; 6 Turn from him, that he may rest, F73 till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.

Choices...There is A cause that make you choose something, rather consciencely or subconsciencely. You know cause and effect.

+++Ben: - Maybe there is a cause for anything else but the cause of freewill is inherent in man himself.

Ben )(

 

[AK4]

+++Ben: - Maybe there is a cause for anything else but the cause of freewill is inherent in man himself.

Ben )(

Show me a scripture and not your opinion.

 

[Ben Masada]

Show me a scripture and not your opinion.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Did you read my previous long response to your post? If you didn't, do it and return
to me for more feedback. If you did, and all you have to say is what you have said above, I rest my case.
Good bye!
Ben

 

[AK4]

[+++Ben: - Most definitely! I can will myself to God, as I have been doing for many years through my studies of Him and my application of the Golden Rule with regards to my fellow man.

Can you? Then you are the first because...

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I guess Jesus is a liar now?

+++Ben: - I am sorry AK4, I don't think you will ever understand this. Let me try once more by being a little gross: Do you believe that I can commit suicide any time I want and finish with my life? If you say I cannot, I rest my case with you. You will never understand othewise.

Now understand this, would there be a cause for someone to kill themselves? So someone just ups and kills himself without a reason/cause? Give me a break. Besides you wouldnt kill yourself unless God had predestined that for you from the foundation of the world.

+++Ben: - Our freewill is absolutely free. Otherwise it would not be called free. The only thing that may modify the use of our freewill is the fear for the consequences. But if we are ready to suffer whatever the outcome, even that won't be on the way.

Oh so a man-made word or expression is now more truth than scriptures. Your own words just proves my point. Fear of the consequences--right there is a cause. You dont care about the outcome? Why? Whoops if you answer that then there is a cause. Because i just dont? Why? Whoops theres another cause.

+++Ben: - Jesus didn't have a freewill! In that case he was not a man but a robbot. He had freewill and he decided to conform it to God's will.

NO He didnt. Did Jesus feel like a robot.

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

+++Ben: - Everything. Anything I do is out of my freewill.

You've done everthing out of your free will. So God has no control over you or anyone else in His creation. God is not Sovereign over you. God didnt cause you to do anything, ever!!!

+++Ben: - THEN FREEWILL YOURSELF OUT OF DEATH! Can I freewill myself out of being born? No, because it does not depend on me. Both: To be born and to die do not depend on me. But Whatever depends on me, it becomes up to me.

Forget about God, if i want to help out the poor, I will do it on my own!!!

Jas 4:15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

+++Ben: - Take a look at Genesis 4:6,7. Cain was planning to kill Abel and God warned him of the consequences of his crime, but He did not twist his nature or deleted his freewill. Cain didn't care about the consequences and carried out his plans.

Really, did Cain plan do this all on his own, without a cause, without a reason, regardless if he cared for the consequences or not, something CAUSED him to do it.
Stick to the subject. Free will or Caused will

+++Ben: - Take a look at Deuteronomy 30:19. God has set before us life and death, blessing and cursing, and suggests to us to choose life that we may live. He does not force the issue or neutralizes our freewill. He leaves entirely up to us to choose whatever we wish.

Really and what caused them to choose what they chose. Fear!!! Keep reading. Why would we choose one over the other? Blessings or cursings. Theres our cause again and thank you for that verse because Now what is the source of all causes?

Bingo!!! I shouldnt have to answer that for you

 

[sandy whitelinger]

But be doers of the word, and not merely hearers who deceive themselves. For if any are hearers of the word and not doers, they are like those who look at themselves in a mirror; for they look at themselves and, on going away, immediately forget what they were like. But those who look into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and persevere, being not hearers who forget but doers who act—they will be blessed in their doing. If any think they are religious, and do not bridle their tongues but deceive their hearts, their religion is worthless.
James 1:22-26

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill’, and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. But someone will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith without works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith without works is barren? Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, ‘Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness’, and he was called the friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. Likewise, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another road? For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.
James 2:14-26

So, according to James, your faith is useless if you don't obey the commandments of God. I'd also point out that Paul agrees. Paul critiqued the Law as being unable to produce true righteousness, working as it did through sinful flesh. But following the Law is not optional for Christians. It's entirely mandatory. Preaching otherwise is that much-maligned "other gospel" Paul inveighed against and called curses down upon.

Before I jump in with what I believe will refute this let me ask you this about the first passage you gave from James (be doers of the word), which "word" are you referring to? Is it the entire Bible of specific sections of it?

 

[Ben Masada]

Can you? Then you are the first because...

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I guess Jesus is a liar now?
+++Ben: - No, not Jesus but Paul. The guy who wrote the fourth Gospel was a Gentile disciple of Paul's who learned
to lye like his master.


Now understand this, would there be a cause for someone to kill themselves? So someone just ups and kills himself without a reason/cause? Give me a break. Besides you wouldnt kill yourself unless God had predestined that for you from the foundation of the world.
+++Ben: - If you want to be a robot and not a person with freewill, be my guest. I for myself remain as God intended for me to be when He granted me freewill.

Oh so a man-made word or expression is now more truth than scriptures. Your own words just proves my point. Fear of the consequences--right there is a cause. You dont care about the outcome? Why? Whoops if you answer that then there is a cause. Because i just dont? Why? Whoops theres another cause.
+++Ben: - But of course there is a law of cause and effect! But that law is subject to our freewill. Whatever we cause by choosing what to do, we will definitely suffer the
effect or consequences of our doings.

NO He didnt. Did Jesus feel like a robot.
+++Ben: - No, he didn't. He knew he was a thinking freewill person. But you with your ideas, you do sound like a robot.


Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
+++Ben: - Now, think about it. Jesus would choose to seek rather God's will and not his. This is freewill. Don't you get it?


Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

+++Ben: - Again. Jesus' will was to do God's will. But he was free to choose not to.

You've done everthing out of your free will. So God has no control over you or anyone else in His creation. God is not Sovereign over you. God didnt cause you to do anything, ever!!!
Forget about God, if i want to help out the poor, I will do it on my own!!!
+++Ben: - Now, I am glad you are on the right track. I knew you would eventually get it.

Jas 4:15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
+++Ben: - This is a prayer to lure God's blessing on whatever one has decided to do.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
+++Ben: - You are backing up again. Have you forgotten what you learned?


Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
+++Ben: - This that God knows the future or everything that's supposed to happen to us has nothing to do with our freewill, and it won't influence a thing. We are still free. God's policy is of non-interference.


Really, did Cain plan do this all on his own, without a cause, without a reason, regardless if he cared for the consequences or not, something CAUSED him to do it.
Stick to the subject. Free will or Caused will
+++Ben: - What are you trying to do, looking for someone to blame for man's crimes? You are digging
contradictions in God's Word.

Really and what caused them to choose what they chose. Fear!!! Keep reading. Why would we choose one over the other? Blessings or cursings. Theres our cause again and thank you for that verse because Now what is the source of all causes?
+++Ben: - Man's will caused him to choose what he did. Fear indeed influences man's power to choose what to do. Man's power of preference, which is also subject to our freewill is what makes one choose one thing over another. I am the source of all causes to what I do. Otherwise, I would have to blame someone else, and I can't.

Bingo!!! I shouldnt have to answer that for you

+++Ben: - You didn't because we our two different students. Our answers are not the same.
Ben