are all vaishnavites conservative

[Jainarayan]

Personally, I really don't care what other people think. I have a hard enough time figuring out what I think, let alone subconscious minds I'm not at all familiar with ... it would be ... let's say ... interesting ... to have that siddhi

But it is a big big Hindu world ... many different takes

Oh I agree with you; no one should tell you what to think or what you are or are not when they don't know you. It's just a little disheartening when you're at the beginning of the journey to hear such things. I'm the kind of person that thinks "well maybe they are right". I have an open mind, but it's said not to keep your mind too open or your brain could fall out.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

The worship of Demigods like Shiva is not on the same platform of worshiping Vishnu.

In the Mahabharata (the same scripture that includes the Gita)Yudhishthira wanted to know the the greatness of the Lord Siva so the Lord Krishna gives him and the world the Siva Sahasranama (1000 names of Shiva) Here are just a few of Siva's the names:

-The seed of all living beings
-First sprout of the Universe
-The Supreme Lord over all Devas and Asuras
-The intersoul of the gods
-The Highest Refuge of Devotees
-The Entire Cosmos

Prabhupada and Krishna seem to disagree about the nature of Siva, I will go with the words of Krishna over Prabhupada any day of the week.

 

[ratikala]

dear vinayaka ji ,

I have no idea what shakti and shaktimaan are ... just an old fool here ... sorry ... for me, all I need is Siva ... well, not quite ... Nataraja does wear an earring, and I worship several forms of Siva, and Ganesha and Murugan

no need to call your self an old fool
many vaisnava worship krsna alone without giving a thought to radha ,
by many krsna is worshiped as bala gopal , and in many aspects where srimati radharani does not feature , only in certain schools concern themselves with the more esoteric understanding of the divine couple .....

just for interest I thought I'd see what wikipidia had to say .....

Radha Krishna

The common separation of Sakti and saktiman, i.e. Female and Male principle in god arrives at the conclusion Sakti and saktiman are the same.[4] Each and every god has its partner, 'betterhalf' or Sakti and without this Sakti he is sometimes viewed being without essential power.[5] It is not uncommon feature or Hinduism when worship of a pair rather than one personality constitutes worship of God, such is worship of Radha Krishna in traditions worshiping Krishna, as svayam bhagavan, who is male, include preference and veneration to his Radha, who is worshiped as supreme.[6] Its an accepted view that union of Radha and Krishna may indicate the union of Sakti with the Saktiman, and this view is existing well outside of orthodox Vaishnavism or Krishnaism.[7]
From the Vaishnava point of view the divine feminine energy (shakti) implies a divine source of energy, i.e. God as shaktiman. "Sita relates to Rama; Lakshmi belongs to Narayana; Radha has Her Krishna." As Krishna is believed to be the source of all manifestations of God, "Shri Radha, His consort, is the original source of all shaktis" or feminine manifestation of divine energy.[8]
A number of interpretations according to traditions possess a common root of personalism in the understanding of worship. Specifically Caitanyaite Gaudiya Vaishnava doctrine and mission is fiercely "personalistic," proclaiming the supremacy of Krishna, the identification of Caitanya as Radha-Krishna, the reality and eternality of individual selves, and a method for approaching the absolute reality and the Deity as a person first and foremost.[9]
Jiva Goswami in his Priti Sandarbha states that each of the Gopis exhibits a different level of intensity of passion, among which Radha's is the greatest. [10]
In his famous dialogs Ramananda Raya describes Radha to Caitanya and quotes, among other texts, a verse from Chaitanya Charitamrta2.8.100, before he goes on to describe her role in the pastimes of Vrindavana.[11]
One of the prominent features of Manipuri Vaishnavism for example is worship of the forms together, in this tradition, among others, devotees do not worship Krishna alone, but Radha-Krishna.[12] Rasa and other dances are a feature of the regional folk and religious tradition and often, for example, a female dancer will portray both 'male' Krishna and his consort, Radha, in the same piece.[13]
Ardhangini: the cornerstone of relationships

The concept of Ardhangini, of women being an equal part of men and vice versa, and without either, both are incomplete, is extensively proliferated in Hindu society, especially the rituals of Hindu weddings.
While the bride must recognize her husband as her Lord, the husband is to appreciate the wife as the source of his position and strength as provider, protector of his household, which is essentially and practically generated and maintained by his wife.
This relationship is theologically symbolized by the marriage of Shiva and Uma, whose relationship and symbiotic love is a cornerstone of two major Hindu ideologies, Shaivism and Shaktism. Their eternal love-making describes the unity of their form and function.
Shiva and Uma are interlinked and inseparable. Uma is the core of the Goddesses Durga and Kali, who are the female forms of Shiva, the Lord Destroyer

I think the comments on Ardhangini ..

The concept of Ardhangini, of women being an equal part of men and vice versa, and without either, both are incomplete, is extensively proliferated in Hindu society, especially the rituals of Hindu weddings.
While the bride must recognize her husband as her Lord, the husband is to appreciate the wife as the source of his position and strength as provider, protector of his household, which is essentially and practically generated and maintained by his wife...

are particularly interesting in relation to the initial question of this thread

 

[Vrindavana Das]

yes but is the man ever submissive to his wife

Friend, there is nothing like 'a man being submissive to his wife' in the Vaishnava philosophy.

Vaishnavism is a way of life, as shown by the scriptures. It is for our own spiritual advancement and achieving the highest objective of human life - eternal happiness & bliss! It is the same world over.

Religion/scriptures teach us how to achieve this God consciousness...state of eternal happiness & bliss. If we change it to suit our conveniences, it reduces to cheating. It then is a simple waste of time and precious human life. It will not benefit anyone.

People may call this 'conservatism', it's their loss. Is it not!

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Friend, there is nothing like 'a man being submissive to his wife' in the Vaishnava philosophy.

Vaishnavism is a way of life, as shown by the scriptures. It is for our own spiritual advancement and achieving the highest objective of human life - eternal happiness & bliss! It is the same world over.

Religion/scriptures teach us how to achieve this God consciousness...state of eternal happiness & bliss. If we change it to suit our conveniences, it reduces to cheating. It then is a simple waste of time and precious human life. It will not benefit anyone.

People may call this 'conservatism', it's their loss. Is it not!

I am sorry the above statement is not only false but leads to the suffering of your fellow human beings. This "conservatism" as you say, I would call it Sexist Patriarchy, this is not only against common sense but against the teaching of the Vedas. It is only due to the degradation of the Kali Yuga do you find this type of thing being preached. Their might have been a time in India that it was a "necessary evil" to keep your women safe because of foreign occupation. Today this is no longer true. Why can't Females be Gurus ? Why are men always the leaders ? Why are woman always the ones who suffer abuse ? By placing limits on 50% of the population is that not wrong ?

Hinduism and Woman:

-In the Rgveda there were about 30 woman who were rishis and were seers of Hymns.
-In Vedic times girls who underwent the upanayana sacrament and studied the Vedas were called brahmanvadinis.
-Vedanta teaches that men and woman are two forms of the same divinity(Brhadaranyaka Upanishad 1.4.3.) So woman should be given the same opportunities.
- "Where women are worshipped, there the Gods are delighted. But where they are not worshipped, all religious ceremonies become futile"-Mahabharata 13-45.5 Maybe this is why there have been so much scandalous behavior in the ISKCON leadership. It's never to late for positive change.


-

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

This is what one modern Hindu Teacher has to say.

It is very difficult to understand why in this country [India] so much difference is made between men and women, whereas the Vedanta declares that one and the same conscious Self is present in all beings. You always criticize the women, but say what have you done for their uplift? Writing down Smritis etc., and binding them by hard rules, the men have turned the women into manufacturing machines! If you do not raise the women, who are living embodiment of the Divine Mother, don’t think that you have any other way to rise.

In what scriptures do you find statements that women are not competent for knowledge and devotion? In the period of degeneration, when the priests made the other castes incompetent for the study of the Vedas, they deprived the women also of all their righ ts. Otherwise you will find that in the Vedic or Upanishadic age Maitreyi, Gargi, and other ladies of revered memory have taken places of Rishis through their skill in discussing about Brahman. In an assembly of a thousand Brahmans who were all erudite in the Vedas, Gargi boldly challenged Yagnavalkya in a discussion about Brahman. Since such ideal women were entitled to spiritual knowledge, why shall not the women have same privilege now? What has happened once can certainly happen again. History repeats itself. All nations have attained greatness by paying proper respect to women. That country and that nation which edo not respect women have never become great, nor will ever be in future. The principal reason why your race h! ! ! ! as so much degenerated is that you have no respect for these living images of Shakti. Manu says, "Where women are respected, there the gods delight; and where they are not, there all works and efforts come to naught." There is no hope of rise for that fam ily or country where there is no estimation of women, where they live in sadness. -Swami Vivekananda

Thoughts on Women - Swami Vivekananda —

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I hope that my above posts are not taken in any way as a disrespect for Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy as espoused by Chaitanya Deva. Achintya Bheda Abheda serves as a meeting of pure monism and pure dualism. It is not only logical but practical, but more importantly it looks like a lot of fun. I love this path of Bhakti with all the signing and dancing. It seems full of Love.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

I am sorry the above statement is not only false but leads to the suffering of your fellow human beings. This "conservatism" as you say, I would call it Sexist Patriarchy, this is not only against common sense but against the teaching of the Vedas.

I will not get into what you are saying. However, I would urge you please read my post again. I have said nothing which can be interpreted the way you are projecting. Even the use of word 'conservatism' here is not in the context as used by me.

It is only due to the degradation of the Kali Yuga do you find this type of thing being preached. Their might have been a time in India that it was a "necessary evil" to keep your women safe because of foreign occupation. Today this is no longer true. Why can't Females be Gurus ? Why are men always the leaders ? Why are woman always the ones who suffer abuse ? By placing limits on 50% of the population is that not wrong ?

Hinduism and Woman:

-In the Rgveda there were about 30 woman who were rishis and were seers of Hymns.
-In Vedic times girls who underwent the upanayana sacrament and studied the Vedas were called brahmanvadinis.
-Vedanta teaches that men and woman are two forms of the same divinity(Brhadaranyaka Upanishad 1.4.3.) So woman should be given the same opportunities.
- "Where women are worshipped, there the Gods are delighted. But where they are not worshipped, all religious ceremonies become futile"-Mahabharata 13-45.5 Maybe this is why there have been so much scandalous behavior in the ISKCON leadership. It's never to late for positive change.-

Two things:

Please do not infer/portray 'Vaishanvism' means 'hinduism.'

Although I am not aware, still, if 'scandalous behaviour' has happened somewhere, even ISKCON, kindly refrain from painting it in the light of being a practice. In a public forum, please choose your words wisely. Act responsibly and in a mature way!

 

[ratikala]

I hope that my above posts are not taken in any way as a disrespect for Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy as espoused by Chaitanya Deva. Achintya Bheda Abheda serves as a meeting of pure monism and pure dualism. It is not only logical but practical, but more importantly it looks like a lot of fun. I love this path of Bhakti with all the signing and dancing. It seems full of Love.

dear wanabe yogi ,

personaly I am not about to take any offence as I can understand your point of veiw , and agree with what you have writen above ,
so would like as a woman to say a little something on this point ,
firstly I have freinds within iscon and with in gaudia math allso within many other schools including buddist traditions .
Ican from first hand knowledge say that what ever problems have occured within iscon , (and I am in no way condoning any such behavior) allso happens within many large organisations , it is in some way indicative of large organisations .
I came away from buddhism which in itself I loved very deeply , because I was so disheartened by the organisation that on one hand was propogating buddha dharma and on the other sectarian ignorance and worse in the way of personal abuse's.
seing the same pattern of behavior or abuse an many schools , I began to realise it to be human failing ....
coming then to vaisnava philosophy I again met many schools , and each unfortunately has some rather unsavory sceletons in the closet , fallen gurus , abuses of power , .....you name it it happens , and it happens every where !it is as a result of ahamkara , false identification with the self !!!it is not money or power that is the root of all evil , but ahamkara , even this question of conservatism , women and vaisnavism ?.....is totaly clouded by ahamkara, false perception !

I have noticed that there is a lot of animosity on this site towards iscon and to srila prabhupada , I understand where it comes from because I have seen it before in my own tradition , again the answer is ahamkara ,

I must stand up for vrindarvan das allso in that I can hear what he is saying , ...

vrindarvan das

Although I am not aware, still, if 'scandalous behaviour' has happened somewhere, even ISKCON, kindly refrain from painting it in the light of being a practice. In a public forum, please choose your words wisely. Act responsibly and in a mature way!

and must add that there is much good in iscon , ...allthough I personaly find large organisations a bit scary ....I will pay my most humble respects to 999% of iscon devotees , as they are without doubt sincere devotees of the lord , and that same 999% goes to all schools even when I think that their teachings might be wrong (corrupted) as unfortunately I felt within some schools of buddhism .

so to return to woman in vaisnavism ?
I personaly have never felt any negative discrimination , a woman is allowed (ha ha , I hope the use of the word allowed dosent cause too much constanation !!!)
I was allowed to serve the dietys , there seem to be more woman pujaris than there are men , because the men like to take the role of leading kirtan , that is what they like to do and can do well so let them do it , and the woman naturaly takes the quieter more humble role of service , and all the woman I know are happy doing this infact it is by choice .... so each is finding their own position , according to their own nature ,
I can lead a class I am allowed to , there is no prohibition against it , actualy I prefer not to I prefer to lead by example , to teach service whilst serving along side others , to teach by sharing love of god , that is my nature .

as a woman I am subservient to my husband in that having a traditional vaisnava wedding I took the vows to do so , but he never exacts that rule , in fact I can honestly say that he is equaly subserviant towards me , in that our duty is to support eachother through our spiritual life ,

I can only say that in this instance too much emphasis is being placed upon equality , when we are not equal , we are not the same , and I dont want or need to be , I was born a woman and there is much I can do as a woman , who knows next birth I might be a man , so I get to lead kirtan , .... but then I miss out on deity service ... it is pure roundabouts and swings ....

in truth we should be thinking .... how best do I serve the lord , in this form in which I currently reside

and as for different traditions , the same goes ...how best do I serve the lord in this tradition that I have the fortune of coming in to contact with

evrything is a veichle and a blessing , ...our birth , ...our gender , ...our tradition , ... so best we count our blessings and rejoice in the blessings of another:bow:

 

[Cassandra]

and it happens every where !it is as a result of ahamkara , false identification with the self

As I see it...
This is indeed the cause, and i think it is a logical result of any movement that proselytes. It is always jnani movements that proselyte. That is what my main criticism towards Buddha is about. I see Buddha as a creator of this.

Why is proselyting so wrong? Because people are initiated that should not be initiated because they have not yet reached the proper spiritual level. Some of these people acquire incredible knowledge and powers and as they still long for power they rise in the organizations. At some point they rediscover their longings, but at the same time they are worshiped by their followers as Godlike or even God. This leads them to believe their longings come with being Godlike, above earthly morals. The sink deeper in their ignorance. These people create organization structures in which authority is absolute and no one can question it and stay in the organization. They take their own people hostage. In the end the people that do have higher awareness will leave the movement, a pure person wants to follow a path of Dharm and it destroys him to be part of adharma. The pure ones leave and the frightened stay, further deteriorating the organization.

At some point the organization will either cleans itself or be unable to cleanse itself. If it cleans itself, it is okay. But if it can not cleans itself it best be destroyed, because it will turn into a adharmic religion. There is nothing worse than adharmic religions because they create total confusion. They use holy texts, pray to the Divine God, use well established practices and rituals, but these become the beautiful clothes around a ugly person. If one thing is helping destroy this world it is adharmic religion. People look up to religion to guide them. If religions becomes corrupted people are left in confusion and do evil things in the conviction it is right. Such adharmic religions better die with their beautiful tradition.

People become upset when i criticize Buddha or other founders. They should not. Hindu Sages teach us that even the Sages have their imperfections. That is one the great insights of Hinduism, that even the most perfect men have imperfection. A true Sage will say to his pupil, ignore my imperfections.

Jnani movements suffer the same imperfection, they offer a steep path to people not up to it. One should only enlighten people that are on the brink of enlightenment. As Nisargadatra says: it is harder to find to true pupil than a true master. Buddha created the first jnani mass movement, other movements like Judaism, Christianity, Islam came from this. It created ahamkara on a large scale. Maybe the worst invention is the idea that can people clean up their Karma just by joining the movement and asking forgiveness to their God. A system that leads people to perpetuate crime. These movements have great attraction to people with guilt feelings, the ones in greatest need for salvation, hardly people that should follow a spiritual path.

The jnani path is one of ahamkara. It is a path for the impatient. They want it now, this live. They exhaust themselves in hard learning and exercises. It is not natural. Dharma is the path of Nature, a path to become a natural being. The jnani path is not that. As i wrote before the jnani path only succeeds in its complete failure. In the total desperation of total failure. The path of devotion is the natural path, worship and work gently, quietly. Not to become more learned, more powerful, but softer, more loving, more attentive, more subtle, more content. Slow as takes her time, no haste to get enlightened, not having to carry the burden of ones own perceived high state.

The path of Dharma is not the pursuit of knowledge as many seem to think, it is the pursuit of purity in action. Knowledge follows in the wake of this. It is only a side effect. But the focus of jnani's is more directed at the destination than on the path. They are totally focused on the result. But Dharm lays the focus on the means. If you focus on the result you reach knowledge and power and still be impure. Your situation will not have improved, you ignorance has grown deeper, firmer, wider, having stronger foundations.

We read things like: all paths lead to the same end. I think this is untrue. Only dharmic paths lead to to this one end, but there are many adharmic religious paths too that lead only to increased ignorance. They have become the worst enemies of Dharma. And the sad thing is, they were created by great Guru's that had this one simple flaw: They could not see there own imperfections. And then these imperfections get multiplied by their worshipers until they become cataclysmic. Such is the power of these people their smallest error grows in devastation for whole nations.

Hindu scriptures like the Mahabharata tell us how Sages curse people in a moment of uncontrollable anger and how this one curse then becomes an avalanche that leads to terrible wars. We read that in the Mahabharata, we read that in the Ramayana. Only the true bhakt is safe from this because he listens to a higher truth in his heart. Even if he worships his Guru as God, he still listens to his heart. And a true Guru will encourage him to do so. Those that demand total obedience have grown blind to their own imperfections.

Bhakts should not be blind to adharma in their own movement, but fiercely protest to it and otherwise leave. A movement, a church that allows sexual predators and abusers of power to continue to be part of it is seriously flawed. If good people accept this, they themselves become the beautiful garment behind which evil people can perpetuate evil. They may think they uphold something good, but they uphold the most evil of all, the evil presented as good.

To be silent here is not Dharm.

"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil—that takes religion. "
Steven Weinberg amongst others

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
Albert Einstein

No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks.
Mary Wollstonecraft

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction.
Blaise Pascal

But goodness alone is never enough. A hard cold wisdom is required, too, for goodness to accomplish good. Goodness without wisdom invariably accomplishes evil.
Robert Heinlein

To put it in a few words, the true malice of man appears only in the state and in the church, as institutions of gathering together, of recapitulation, of totalization.
Paul Ricoeur

When good people in any country cease their vigilance and struggle, then evil men prevail.
Pearl S. Buck

It is always good men who do the most harm in the world.
Henry Brooks Adam

 

[zenzero]

Friend ratikala,

It was nice to read your above post.
However you have spoken about your nature and if you are attributing it to *vaishnavism* then am not sure. Personally feel 99% of what we are are from our past karma as we as beings are in existence since ... eternally? whatever and one life is a very very tiny part to attribute our nature to our associations in this life. Personally only feel [no knowledge] that must have practiced all known paths in previous lives to reach where paths are unimportant, only meditation IS to keep in connection!

Your views?

Love & rgds

 

[Vrindavana Das]

However you have spoken about your nature and if you are attributing it to *vaishnavism* then am not sure.

Friend ZZ,

With due respect, I too have read the post of Ratikala. She has said that she, being a woman, and following Vaishnavism, has not felt any suppression/discrimination. She is telling about things which she has freedom to do as a Vaishnava, and being a woman. It should not be attributed to her nature, as I understand.

Personally only feel [no knowledge] that must have practiced all known paths in previous lives to reach where paths are unimportant, only meditation IS to keep in connection!

How about the path of *love*. It is the highest 'feeling' the world knows. No knowledge. Please do not get me wrong here, but even animals, who cannot meditate, can understand the language of love...let alone humans. Is it not?

Your views?

 

[zenzero]

Friend VD,

Yes, basically wanted to discuss that should not behaviour of everyone including herself be attributed more to past lives than the present one as a *vaishnav* or anyother cause since the past is much much larger than the present life.

Rgds love: sure it is the next best to that which is unexpressable. Besides to personal understanding all beings are mostly in meditation whereas humans will be the least in meditative state.

Love & rgds

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Friend VD,

Yes, basically wanted to discuss that should not behaviour of everyone including herself be attributed more to past lives than the present one as a *vaishnav* or anyother cause since the past is much much larger than the present life.

Friend ZZ,

I agree with you. Behaviour certainly is a cause of our past conditioning of countless previous lives.

That said, the 'right to opportunity' to women/men in Vaishnavism is the point in question.

An 'opportunity' got by virtue of being a Vaishnava in this life, should be attributed to being a Vaishnava alone. It is independent of my 'behaviour as a Vaishnava', which can be due to my previous lives conditioning.

For example, if I do a B.Ed (teacher's course), then the opportunity I get for teaching must be attributed to my being B.Ed in this life. How I behave while teaching, that is my past conditioning.

Rgds love: sure it is the next best to that which is unexpressable.

If love is the next best thing to that which is unexpressable (Consciousness/God), is not loving Consciousness/God the highest form of meditation then?

Besides to personal understanding all beings are mostly in meditation whereas humans will be the least in meditative state.

An animal, whose entire life is just eating, mating, sleeping and defending, is in a state of meditation! I do not agree with that, sorry.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I will not get into what you are saying. However, I would urge you please read my post again. I have said nothing which can be interpreted the way you are projecting. Even the use of word 'conservatism' here is not in the context as used by me.

Although I am not aware, still, if 'scandalous behaviour' has happened somewhere, even ISKCON, kindly refrain from painting it in the light of being a practice. In a public forum, please choose your words wisely. Act responsibly and in a mature way!

Let me just be direct. I do not see A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada as a saint but just a spiritual seeker. This is because he hand pick people to work with children that turned out to be the worse abusers possible. The ISKCON gurukulas were living hells for 100's children. For this reason it is impossible for me to take Prabhupada seriously as a good judge of character and as such He cannot be a seer.(in my mind at least) This is a valid comment because of your use of his comments as if they are scripture. They are not. He was a nice man who was an Idealist who was naive and ignorant of human behavior. This is the best spin I can put on Prabhupada.

As a person who worked with abused kids. This issue is very important to me. I do not believe it is dharmic to stay silent on these issues. I must say that from what I see today Iskcon has done all the right things to protect kids from this type of abuse and I :bow: to them for that.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

personaly I am not about to take any offence as I can understand your point of veiw , and agree with what you have writen above ,

Thank You.

I have noticed that there is a lot of animosity on this site towards iscon and to srila prabhupada ,

Yes, and at times I have defended Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition on RF. At the same time many Iskcon followers come on and off this site and are very given to criticize the beliefs and practices of others. It seems to be what they are taught to do. I know that in the 1980s 5 of them came into my temple and provoked a public debate with the swami in charge. They had their clock cleaned (the swami was extremely polite but firm and made them look very bad ) and they walked out of the temple with their tail between there legs. This type of thing happens a lot with this group.

I understand where it comes from because I have seen it before in my own tradition , again the answer is ahamkara ,

Very true for us all.

and must add that there is much good in iscon

I can testify to that, I became a Vegetarian before I started taking a look at Hinduism seriously, in a large part because of Iskcon literature.

, ...allthough I personaly find large organisations a bit scary ....I will pay my most humble respects to 999% of iscon devotees ,

I also find Gaudiya Vaishnavism very beautiful. Believe it or not my Bengali Shaktism that I follow have similar style to the worship that I feel very comfortable with.

I was allowed to serve the dietys , there seem to be more woman pujaris than there are men ,

I am girlie also, I do puja at my temple. So does my 13 year old son on fridays he leads aarti.

as a woman I am subservient to my husband in that having a traditional vaisnava wedding I took the vows to do so

:clap :bow: :clap It is a path to God

 

[Marble]

I am girlie also, I do puja at my temple. So does my 13 year old son on fridays he leads aarti.

Just to mention it: Your profile says you are male.

 

[MochaRadha]

being submissive to your husband is not a path to god

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

being submissive to your husband is not a path to god

I see a very big part of my path as service to my family. I am a man. The same can be true for a woman. I see men and women as equals. Providing love and service to others is not a low position. If a woman wants to be submissive who am I to tell them they should not ? The same is true for a man. I personally don't like the word submissive. I do not believe that woman should be subservient to men and the type of Hinduism I follow also rejects women as being some how less then men.

 

[MochaRadha]

no it is not your right im just aying many women of different religions are taught they were created to be like a mans slave, if its all equal in service than yes it is a way to god. sadly it seems many vaishnavas only focus on women serving