Are atheists irrational?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is the problem. If you won't know/can't know/don't know when God speaks to you, how can you criticize what I understand is God speaking to me?

If you say that you've received communications from God, then this implies that you've solved this problem. Anybody - believer or not - can consider whether your method of distinguishing "communication from God" from everything else is reasonable or rational.

 

[blü 2]

Your definition is incomplete. With Christianity and with other areas, say, scientific paradigms, irrefutable proof sometimes meets stubborn persons.

They may be stubborn, but your proof is irrefutable, you said, so it already meets the criteria I mentioned.

I've spoken to people who wept openly as I shared Jesus with them and still refused the opportunity to trust Christ.

And this is relevant to your irrefutable but so far wholly invisible proof how?

Who is this "impartial onlooker" you describe? No person is purely impartial.

The guy with no particular opinions about the matter who stops in passing and wonders what's going on.

I'm more than aware that atheist friends have received sufficient proof of Jesus's love, power and abilities but resist based on hardened hearts and consciences.

That's your personal view. Please provide your objective irrefutable demonstration of a real Jesus. That after all is what you said you had.

 

[Hawkins]

Irrefutable evidence of a real Jesus stands on its own. The believer, the unbeliever, the impartial onlooker, can all examine and assess it (and by definition fail to refute it).

The bible plays no part in that. If Jesus is real ─ has objective existence ─ then you can give us a satisfactory demonstration of him.

If not, then he only exists in imagination.

There's no third way.

This world is not a world of evidence. This world is rather a world of human witnessing. What evidence you can present of what you yourself did a year ago. If no, perhaps you ceased to be present on earth in the past 10 years. Show us the evidence of your own existence, on a 24 hours a day basis!

Humans don't rely on evidence to get to a truth. That's why among the 100% humans know for a fact that black holes exist, 99% of them don't have the evidence. They rely almost exclusively on faith in human witnessing to get to a truth. In this case, they rely on trusting the scientists (the eye witnesses) with faith to get to the truth.

This is so simply because faith in witnessing is more efficient plus that, not all kinds of truth can be evidenced. What you yourself just did yesterday or today but a year ago, can hardly be evidenced. We can know what you did if it happens that a witness (or yourself) wrote about what you did for us to believe with faith!

That's how this reality works!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

God will speak to you at 8 PM tomorrow, EDT.

Thanks,

I remembered this a bit after 8:00. Thinking back, nothing remarkable happened.

As well as I can remember, at 8:00, I was looking at an ad for a Westy that looks kinda interesting but that I don't need that had just popped up in my Facebook feed. It didn't even take my breath away, as happens sometimes (like this car did that I saw on the weekend).

So... was my mild interest in a small, quirky RV a communication from God?

 

[Darkstorn]

This thread is funny. It's asking whether ATHEISTS are irrational.

Then someone like BB comes along and presents an irrational argument. I mean, he literally thinks that irrefutable proof = no proof whatsoever. Not to mention he's using the word in a context that would be better served with the word "evidence."

Proof is a concept of logic. And BB's arguments are not logic based, but faith based. So... It's evidence he's talking about, mistaking it for "proof."

I feel it's a lost cause to try to argue with a person incapable of understanding such basics.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I remembered this a bit after 8:00. Thinking back, nothing remarkable happened.

As well as I can remember, at 8:00, I was looking at an ad for a Westy that looks kinda interesting but that I don't need that had just popped up in my Facebook feed. It didn't even take my breath away, as happens sometimes (like this car did that I saw on the weekend).

So... was my mild interest in a small, quirky RV a communication from God?

So, you are saying that if God spoke to you, something remarkable should have happened. Yet, when I meet people and seconds later reveal their closely kept secrets . . . you have a double standard there.

Sorry, I forgot to tell you WHERE God was going to speak to you. It was atop Mount Everest. Unfortunate I forgot . . .

 

[BilliardsBall]

They may be stubborn, but your proof is irrefutable, you said, so it already meets the criteria I mentioned.
And this is relevant to your irrefutable but so far wholly invisible proof how?
The guy with no particular opinions about the matter who stops in passing and wonders what's going on.
That's your personal view. Please provide your objective irrefutable demonstration of a real Jesus. That after all is what you said you had.

Thanks for asking, but having proof and sharing it are two different things.

 

[blü 2]

Thanks for asking, but having proof and sharing it are two different things.

How credible do you think you sound saying that?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So, you are saying that if God spoke to you, something remarkable should have happened. Yet, when I meet people and seconds later reveal their closely kept secrets . . . you have a double standard there.

Any time I asked you how you knew it was God speaking to you, your answer was just some variation on "I just know."

Sorry, I forgot to tell you WHERE God was going to speak to you. It was atop Mount Everest. Unfortunate I forgot . . .

So God told you I'd be on Mount Everest?

 

[BilliardsBall]

How credible do you think you sound saying that?

To a Christian, VERY. Jesus said to not share certain things with mockers. Look for sincere inquirers instead.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Any time I asked you how you knew it was God speaking to you, your answer was just some variation on "I just know."


So God told you I'd be on Mount Everest?

Your assertion is untrue. I said when I felt like God was speaking to me or through me, total strangers affirmed what they considered hidden knowledge was revealed to me.

God didn't tell me whether or not you would be on Mount Everest. I'm unsure you would even cross a street to hear Him!

 

[blü 2]

To a Christian, VERY. Jesus said to not share certain things with mockers. Look for sincere inquirers instead.

Jesus said that the Christian position is indefensible? I agree as to the supernatural stuff, the antisemitism, the homophobia, the religious intolerance, the slave-owning, the denigration of women, and so on, but I didn't know he was out loud about it.

Where did he say that?

Anyway, since you say your 'proof' is 'irrefutable', well, he wants you to pour it on the whole world, skeptics especially, no?

Of course, if it were thoroughly refutable, if it's one of those believing-is-seeing things, well yes, it'd be dumb to go public with that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Your assertion is untrue. I said when I felt like God was speaking to me or through me, total strangers affirmed what they considered hidden knowledge was revealed to me.

And "God will speak to you at 8 PM tomorrow, EDT" wasn't "revealed to you by God"?

God didn't tell me whether or not you would be on Mount Everest. I'm unsure you would even cross a street to hear Him!

I'd do more than that... as long as the claim that he would be there was credible.

But you ARE saying that God told you he would communicate with me yesterday at 8:00, right?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Stepping back to this:

Your assertion is untrue. I said when I felt like God was speaking to me or through me, total strangers affirmed what they considered hidden knowledge was revealed to me.

Here's one example of what you've said said on the subject:

You have the order backwards--100% of the time I first get the prompting or sense of God communication and after, the knowledge tests as true.

So you claim to know right away - even before testing whether the "communication" is true - that it has come from God, and that you know that it's a communication from God because you get "the prompting or sense of God communication."

How is this different from what I said: that this is a variation on "I just know"?

 

[Mister Silver]

Atheists can be irrational in varying aspects of their lives, for the only thing all atheists have in common is the lack of belief in god. When it comes to that lack of belief, however, it alone is hardly irrational.

 

[McBell]

To a Christian, VERY. Jesus said to not share certain things with mockers. Look for sincere inquirers instead.

So your whole purpose here on RF is to directly disobey Jesus?

I mean, with all the whining you do about how everyone "mistreats" you and yet you still push your beliefs here on RF like a drug dealer on a street corner....

 

[Sha'irullah]

Atheists can be irrational in varying aspects of their lives, for the only thing all atheists have in common is the lack of belief in god. When it comes to that lack of belief, however, it alone is hardly irrational.

Well I am a theist now so I beg to differ . I feel like a traitor to the nation of Atheostan. I have now defect to the H.U.R.T empire meaning, Heavenly Umbrella of the Religious and Theistic. KKy belief in god is undoubtedly strong at the moment and my capability to even fathom atheism is just nil.

I was a very unsatisfied atheist as the years went on.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Jesus said that the Christian position is indefensible? I agree as to the supernatural stuff, the antisemitism, the homophobia, the religious intolerance, the slave-owning, the denigration of women, and so on, but I didn't know he was out loud about it.

Where did he say that?

Anyway, since you say your 'proof' is 'irrefutable', well, he wants you to pour it on the whole world, skeptics especially, no?

Of course, if it were thoroughly refutable, if it's one of those believing-is-seeing things, well yes, it'd be dumb to go public with that.

Jesus never said the Christian position is indefensible. He directed Christians be effective in sharing and discern when someone is interested in evidence or when someone disbelieves despite reasonable evidence.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

To a Christian, VERY. Jesus said to not share certain things with mockers. Look for sincere inquirers instead.

He also said to pray in secret, but IIRC, you do a lot of your praying in public schools.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Stepping back to this:


Here's one example of what you've said said on the subject:

So you claim to know right away - even before testing whether the "communication" is true - that it has come from God, and that you know that it's a communication from God because you get "the prompting or sense of God communication."

How is this different from what I said: that this is a variation on "I just know"?

My anecdotal experience is that 100% of the time, when I "just know" it turns out I accurately, truly do know.