Are Atheists just close minded Agnostics?

[idav]

Yes but how often do you accept the claims of an individual that are repeatedly shown to be wrong before deciding it's a waste of time to investigate their claims any further?

Hard to say I've been in these type of forums for many years, lol. Maybe I waste my time but oh well.

There have been scientific studies on things like prayer and, I don't know... speaking in tongues etc... Maybe we shouldn't get jaded but we do.

I think it reasonable to become closed minded regarding some claims. Someone might call me closed minded because of it. I don't care.

I try to be open to claims as it is reasonable to be open to them. Doesn't mean I have to be open minded to every claim.

Most I think are pretty open-minded, at least few actually think they know everything. You can be open while allowing the opportunity for new evidence to present itself. If it is something you have already heard or come across then we probably would get tired of it but then it should be easy to debunk the claims in that case. That isn't always the case as I've seen atheists and theists alike give people a run for their money.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Must faith be a requirement to be with God?

I believe so.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't expect people to understand my close minded beliefs. They where not raised like I was. They did not attend fire and brimstone sermons. They did not get their butt beat and told children should be seen but not heard. They did not get told, don't do as I do do as I say.

So you admit your beliefs rise from indoctrination rather than from your own heart and mind?

Too many people sugar coat religion IMHO.

Perhaps they're not sugar coating religion, but rather scraping away the layer of garbage that ancient goat herders had attributed to god. That's exactly what I meant by making the distinction between god and how fallible mortals have perceived and portrayed god. If anything, the self-appointed and self-serving middlemen (i.e. religions, especially yours) widen the gap between humanity and god rather than bring them closer together.

 

[crystalonyx]

To me being open minded means to actually consider other views while acknowledging the possibility of being wrong.

To be open-minded is to consider the real evidence for or against a proposition, not necessarily to be open to all viewpoints, many which could be absurd, illogical, racist or otherwise. I'm not open-minded when it comes to the views of the KKK, for example.

 

[Reverend Rick]

To be open-minded is to consider the real evidence for or against a proposition, not necessarily to be open to all viewpoints, many which could be absurd, illogical, racist or otherwise. I'm not open-minded when it comes to the views of the KKK, for example.

Nor am I.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

To be open-minded is to consider the real evidence for or against a proposition, not necessarily to be open to all viewpoints, many which could be absurd, illogical, racist or otherwise. I'm not open-minded when it comes to the views of the KKK, for example.

I think this comes back to the definition we use for "open-minded", though. As I mentioned earlier, I use a definition that's something like "willing to be led as directed by the evidence."

When it comes to the KKK, I think the evidence has strongly indicated to me that they're very bad news. It's not that I refuse to accept any evidence that will sway me from my predetermined position; it's that I have accepted the evidence, I've reached a conclusion about them based on it, and I recognize that the evidence about them is very strong. I think all this fits within a normal definition of "open-minded".

 

[waitasec]

I don't know, I did not make the rules.

and what makes you think these rules aren't man made...?
"trust me without me proving myself" seems to be an awfully suspicious human like tendency, don't cha think

That is your decision. Do you believe it is an open minded decision? I have already admitted I have a closed mind.

i'm skeptical to a lot of things which allows equal opportunity for the evidence to speak for it self...so yes i am open minded to the evidence...

 

[waitasec]

I don't expect people to understand my close minded beliefs. They where not raised like I was. They did not attend fire and brimstone sermons. They did not get their butt beat and told children should be seen but not heard. They did not get told, don't do as I do do as I say.

Actually this is my understanding of God. Do as he says or he will deal with you like no other.

for what it's worth rick, i was exposed to this type of upbringing...

 

[Reverend Rick]

for what it's worth rick, i was exposed to this type of upbringing...

It is worth alot, thanks for sharing.

 

[riley2112]

It is worth alot, thanks for sharing.

I too was raised like that , I be 54 , that seems to be the way it was back then.

 

[Willamena]

Not withholding belief of a being that does not exist. It withholds belief that any current or future evidence will ever point to such a being existing. Requiring sufficient evidence to believe something exists is logical.

Well amended for the image of the agnostic, thank you.

 

[bobhikes]

Well amended for the image of the agnostic, thank you.

I wonder though, how his quote applies to internet usage. Most people do not have very high requirements when associating with internet data. IE they tend to believe without facts.

Edit: Even on the RF, I wonder how many Atheists believed Just like Mike died.

 

[crystalonyx]

I was raised in a very strong protestant upbringing. Most of the people I knew that had the same type of upbringing are still strong believers in god. I was "open-minded" enough, I guess, to consider atheism, and am now a strong atheist.

 

[waitasec]

I was raised in a very strong protestant upbringing. Most of the people I knew that had the same type of upbringing are still strong believers in god. I was "open-minded" enough, I guess, to consider atheism, and am now a strong atheist.

great point...as a former believer, i was open minded enough to consider a completely different way of thinking, which why i have a problem why some believers think atheists like you and i are closed minded

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Just because you were open at one point does not mean that you will continue to be; it is possible to be open minded and embrace an idea and become close minded over time to alternate ideas. That is what the 'strong' indicates, if you are an atheist, theist or even an agnostic (yes! I am talking to you close minded agnostics out there, insisting that proof one way or the other is impossible, strong agnosticism is almost as close minded as strong atheism or strong theism, it is just the emphasis of what they believe is CERTAINTY is different, in theists or atheists it is about the existence of 'God' for a strong agnostic it is the incapacity for proof - I am strongly agnostic by the way)

 

[Reverend Rick]

Many people have implied that my definitions where way off base.

In a binary world, there would be Theist and Atheist. Once we start to expand, Agnostic becomes an option. One would think that would be good enough. If I have this right, I have come to understand the following:

Theist
Weak Agnostic
Agnostic
Strong Agnostic
Weak Atheist
Atheist
Strong Atheist

One would think there could be no more descriptions until many want to claim more than one of the above.

This would make more sense to me if they listed both, but no, they just choose the one that sounds the coolest.

Why do we not have weak and strong Theists? It seems silly to me to have so many different non-beliefs.

It is almost like we have as many people as we have beliefs.

What on earth would be the difference between a Weak Atheist and a Strong Agnostic? Would it be that hard to choose between the two and eliminate one?

 

[Willamena]

great point...as a former believer, i was open minded enough to consider a completely different way of thinking, which why i have a problem why some believers think atheists like you and i are closed minded

Because open-mindedness isn't jumping off one horse and getting on another. It's, having been on both horses, being able to jump on either horse.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Because open-mindedness isn't jumping off one horse and getting on another. It's, having been on both horses, being able to jump on either horse.

It looks to me like many of you are conflicted.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

It is almost like we have as many people as we have beliefs.

That is precisely the case. Sorry.

It's all illusion. Words. Labeling. It's all just illusion. I always advise people to try and not believe too much in words. It can make us crazy.

What is an atheist? Well, he or she is a guy who would assent to the following statement: [fill in the statement, just be sure it's got the word 'God' in it and some kind of rejection of that word.]

What else can an atheist be except someone who assents to a particular set of words? That's the only definition of atheism which could work, in my opinion. It's the only way to really define an atheist.

And once you create that set of words, you'll start getting disagreement. Atheists will start falling away from (your definition of) atheism until there are only a couple of them left in the world.

Then someone else will exclaim No! No, Rick's statement is the wrong one. Let me present the proper statement to which a person must assent in order to be an atheist.

And so on.

It's all illusion... the idea that a person can actually 'be' an atheist or agnostic or whatever.

 

[Reverend Rick]

That is precisely the case. Sorry.

It's all illusion. Words. Labeling. It's all just illusion. I always advise people to try and not believe too much in words. It can make us crazy.

What is an atheist? Well, he or she is a guy who would assent to the following statement: [fill in the statement, just be sure it's got the word 'God' in it and some kind of rejection of that word.]

What else can an atheist be except someone who assents to a particular set of words? That's the only definition of atheism which could work, in my opinion. It's the only way to really define an atheist.

And once you create that set of words, you'll start getting disagreement. Atheists will start falling away from (your definition of) atheism until there are only a couple of them left in the world.

Then someone else will exclaim No! No, Rick's statement is the wrong one. Let me present the proper statement to which a person must assent in order to be an atheist.

And so on.

It's all illusion... the idea that a person can actually 'be' an atheist or agnostic or whatever.

I respect what you are saying, but this seems much more common with non-belief than belief.

I dont see weak Theists for example or a least people who want to be identified as such anyway.