Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[Trailblazer]

When one becomes informed of what was revealed by Baha'u'llah, Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi about the collapse of Old World Order as the New World Order is rolled our, there becomes no doubt that the prophecies are indeed unfolding.

Regards Tony

That's right, but what people decide that means, if anything, is their own free will choice.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Precisely. Much like the changing of the world order.

That was not known in any shape or form in the 1800's. The world is changing so fast, no person in mid to the late 1800's could have envisaged this current age.

The fact that we have Prohecy that deals with the exact issues we now face, is what this OP is about.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

It is not relevant to my OP because all I asked was:
Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

So the question first has to be...are they prophecies? If they are not, then the answer to your question is no. If they are, then the answer is...shmaybe.

 

[ppp]

That's right, but what people decide that means, if anything, is their own free will choice.

Unless there is no free will.

 

[Left Coast]

That is not known in any shape or form. The world is changing so fast, no person in mid to the late 1800's could have envisaged this current age.

Civilizations have risen and fallen and ebbed and flowed for as long as humans have been around. That would be no great prediction for any student of history in the 19th century.

The fact that we have Prohecy that deals with the exact issues we now face, is what this OP is about.

Regards Tony

But they don't deal with the exact issues we're facing. They're vague. They say nothing about Russia or Ukraine, for example, at least not that I've seen thus far. And to the degree that the world is becoming globalized, it is doing so in a secular, not religious way.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So the question first has to be...are they prophecies? If they are not, then the answer to your question is no. If they are, then the answer is...shmaybe.

There are many.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

You haven't cited them all, so I have no idea if that's true. But if they're all as vague as what you cited, then they're as mundane as me saying the sun will come up. So yes, his incredibly vague "prophesies" have come true, I guess? What's the relevance of that, though?

They are not all that vague, but they all have either come true or are in the process of coming true, although some prophecies have not come true yet, since the new world order/kingdom of God on earth has not been built yet.

But this thread was not intended to be about what prophecies are believable. That is a can of worms because some people won't believe a clear prophecy when it is staring them right in the face, even if it is very specific. People will interpret prophecies to men what they want to believe or disbelieve. I am sure Baha'u'llah knew that so maybe that is why He never offered prophecies as proof of who He claimed to be.

 

[Trailblazer]

So the question first has to be...are they prophecies? If they are not, then the answer to your question is no. If they are, then the answer is...shmaybe.

Of course they were prophecies, by definition.

prophecy: a prediction of something to come
Definition of PROPHECY

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But they don't deal with the exact issues we're facing. They're vague. They say nothing about Russia or Ukraine, for example, at least not that I've seen thus far. And to the degree that the world is becoming globalized, it is doing so in a secular, not religious way.

The Prohecies are specific to events that will have global remaifications, events that will daily increase in ever increasing convulsions.

I have no need at all to argue about this, but to say the New World Order is being built by learning from what killed the old world order.

The lack of the spiritual capacity that is driving this change is part of the prophecy. No lasting change can, or will be made, until we embrace the spirit behind humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

As it so happens, much of what makes a prophecy believable is also what makes it determinable.

What do you mean by determinable?

 

[Trailblazer]

When exactly did I vote in the world government elections? Who was on the ballot?

When did I say that there is a world government? Obviously the world government has not yet been established.

Baháʼu'lláh taught that the future order will be the embodiment God's scheme for mankind.[3] Later on his successors, ʻAbdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi, interpreted "unification of mankind" as the eventual establishment of a world commonwealth, later as a democratic elected world government based on principles of equity and justice.[4]

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_world_order_(Baháʼí)

 

[Trailblazer]

God has never given blow for blow detail.

but that is what they want.

 

[Trailblazer]

Precisely. Much like the changing of the world order.

No, that is not the same as the sun will come up tomorrow.
The sun has always come up the next day, but there has never been a new world order like the one that was envisioned by Baha'u'llah. The world has always changed but it has never been the way Baha'u'llah envisioned it will be.

 

[ppp]

Of course they were prophecies, by definition.

prophecy: a prediction of something to come
Definition of PROPHECY

Well, every body does that. I predict that my tea kettle will whistle tonight.

 

[Left Coast]

They are not all that vague, but they all have either come true or are in the process of coming true, although some prophecies have not come true yet, since the new world order/kingdom of God on earth has not been built yet.

Of the prophecies you've cited, which do you think is specific? It mentions specific people? Specific countries? Specific years? Specific events?

But this thread was not intended to be about what prophecies are believable.

So you don't think the believability of a prophecy has any relevance to whether it's true/accurate or not? Again, what is the relevance of a "prophecy coming true" that is completely mundane or vague?

That is a can of worms because some people won't believe a clear prophecy when it is staring them right in the face, even if it is very specific. People will interpret prophecies to men what they want to believe or disbelieve. I am sure Baha'u'llah knew that so maybe that is why He never offered prophecies as proof of who He claimed to be.

I do agree with you that when people are motivated to believe a prophecy or prophet, they will interpret even vague prophecies as somehow predicting very precise current world events. Happens all the time with Christians and the Bible.

 

[Left Coast]

No, that is not the same as the sun will come up tomorrow.
The sun has always come up the next day, but there has never been a new world order like the one that was envisioned by Baha'u'llah. The world has always changed but it has never been the way Baha'u'llah envisioned it will be.

And it isn't now the way Bahaullah envisioned it to be, either. Which you'll excuse by saying that it will be someday.

 

[Left Coast]

The Prohecies are specific to events that will have global remaifications, events that will daily increase in ever increasing convulsions.

Cite one. A specific one.

 

[ppp]

When did I say that there is a world government? Obviously the world government has not yet been established.

Baháʼu'lláh taught that the future order will be the embodiment God's scheme for mankind.[3] Later on his successors, ʻAbdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi, interpreted "unification of mankind" as the eventual establishment of a world commonwealth, later as a democratic elected world government based on principles of equity and justice.[4]

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_world_order_(Baháʼí)

The principles of equity and justice according to whom?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, every body does that. I predict that my tea kettle will whistle tonight.

That would be a self fulfilling prophecy.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

is it? Isn't the whole idea of prophecy is that there is some mystic connection between the utterance of the words and what can be construed as a matching event occurring? Suppose a world government forms tomorrow. Is that prophecy or coincidence?

It is a yes/no question, because either the old world order is crumbling and a new world order is starting to rise or not.

Yes, a prophecy can be defined as the utterance of a Prophet whose words can be construed as a matching an event that has occurred.

It is not going to happen tomorrow, but if a world government formed tomorrow that would be the fulfillment of the prophecies of Baha'u'llah.