You don't think the God is aware of the response and feedback? God could easily fix all the doubters with evidence. As it is what we get is not very compelling and it's as if the God doesn't need to exist.
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Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, I am claiming that the Old Testament is not the claims of any deity. It is human anthropomorphism about a deity. No deity was involved in writing the OT or the NT for that matter. They are the writings of fallible men.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I am saying it is man-made scripture. Hopefully you can do the math.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Hence my position that a vague prophecy is no prophecy at all.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Bahá'í viewpoint proposed by this essay has been established as follows: The Bible is a reliable source of Divine guidance and salvation, and rightly regarded as a sacred and holy book. However, as a collection of the writings of independent and human authors, it is not necessarily historically accurate. Nor can the words of its writers, although inspired, be strictly defined as 'The Word of God' in the way the original words of Moses and Jesus could have been. Instead there is an area of continuing interest for Bahá'í scholars, possibly involving the creation of new categories for defining authoritative religious literature.
A Baháí View of the Bible
Below is the Baha'i position on the Bible according to the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, Shoghi Effendi:
The Bahá'ís believe what is in the Bible to be true in substance. This does not mean that every word recorded in that Book is to be taken literally and treated as the authentic saying of a Prophet.
...The Bahá'ís believe that God's Revelation is under His care and protection and that the essence, or essential elements, of what His Manifestations intended to convey has been recorded and preserved in Their Holy Books. However, as the sayings of the ancient Prophets were written down some time later, we cannot categorically state, as we do in the case of the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, that the words and phrases attributed to Them are Their exact words
(9 August 1984 to an individual believer)
The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments
Regarding the stories in the Bible, the following are more letters from Shoghi Efffendi about the Bible:
When 'Abdu'l-Bahá states we believe what is in the Bible, He means in substance. Not that we believe every word of it to be taken literally or that every word is the authentic saying of the Prophet.
(11 February 1944 to an individual believer)
We cannot be sure of the authenticity of any of the phrases in the Old or the New Testament. What we can be sure of is when such references or words are cited or quoted in either the Quran or the Bahá'í writings.
(4 July 1947 to an individual believer)
We have no way of substantiating the stories of the Old Testament other than references to them in our own teachings, so we cannot say exactly what happened at the battle of Jericho.
(25 November 1950 to an individual believer)
Except for what has been explained by Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá, we have no way of knowing what various symbolic allusions in the Bible mean.
(31 January 1955 to an individual believer)
From letters written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice:
The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You can believe anything that you want. That does not mean that you ave any evidence that supports your claim.
Is this your opinion, or a fact?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Valid according to whom?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is my opinion.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Was there ever any doubt about that?
Nobody should take my interpretation. People should decide for themselves, that is if they want to waste the precious days of their lives discussing an ancient book that has no bearing on the problems the world is facing in this new age. That does not seem very logical to me.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Yes, to all of your post.
Bahai says that it takes no part in politics of today, and almost greets mega wars with 'Truly, our Prophet told us about this!', but of course Bahai is wishing to become a governing theocracy, which is mega ultimate politics.
And if it should ever arrive there its armies and policing forces would be worldwide, vast and all powerful. Only then the world would discover the true nature of Bahai.
Too late.
The prophecy I wait to be fulfilled, is already reflected in this OP.
"May God confirm the day when a score of ministers of the churches may arise and with bared heads cry at the top of their voices that the Bahá’ís are misguided. I would like to see that day, for that is the time when the Cause of God will spread. Bahá’u’lláh has pronounced such as these the couriers of the Cause. They will proclaim from pulpits that the Bahá’ís are fools, that they are a wicked and unrighteous people, but be ye steadfast and unwavering in the Cause of God. They will spread the message of Bahá’u’lláh."
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 429
"Therefore, my purpose is to warn and strengthen you against accusations, criticisms, revilings, and derision . . . Be not disturbed by them. They are the very confirmation of the Cause, the very source of upbuilding to the Movement."
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 428-430
It is through injustice, that Justice can raise its brightest light.
Regards Tony
"May God confirm the day when a score of ministers of the churches may arise and with bared heads cry at the top of their voices that the Bahá’ís are misguided. I would like to see that day, for that is the time when the Cause of God will spread. Bahá’u’lláh has pronounced such as these the couriers of the Cause. They will proclaim from pulpits that the Bahá’ís are fools, that they are a wicked and unrighteous people, but be ye steadfast and unwavering in the Cause of God. They will spread the message of Bahá’u’lláh."
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 429
"Therefore, my purpose is to warn and strengthen you against accusations, criticisms, revilings, and derision . . . Be not disturbed by them. They are the very confirmation of the Cause, the very source of upbuilding to the Movement."
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 428-430
It is through injustice, that Justice can raise its brightest light.
Regards Tony
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
................ said the neighbours to their next door resident who they had heard being burgled, looted and raped, and who had done nothing to help.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Many lessons from the bible are timeless, perfect and in-date.
One Example of hundreds:-
Make a parapet for your roof (Deut. 22:8)
Even our local council requires all rooftops with access to have ..... parapets, fencing, etc.
Now where did Bahaullah tell you to do that?
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Anyone who values sound logic.
................ said the neighbours to their next door resident who they had heard being burgled, looted and raped, and who had done nothing to help.
They were not good neighbours.
Regards Tony
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
No, but you act as thought the passages which you can use to support your position are perfectly sound. There is no justification for that.
Tell me, what message does the Bible present, and how is it not relevant to our present age? And what message does Mr B present that is relevant?
Don't just give me vague stuff, I want specifics.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Yep!
Churchill bored Parliament endlessly about Hitler for absolutely yonks!
But he was a wicked old so-and-so........ with the guts to hold us together in those dreadful times.
Ergo........ Evil old beggars can be angels...... of sorts.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is true, but there is so much other stuff in the Bible that that is misleading and contradictory and outright false, so it is not worth the bother wading through all that to find some spiritual truths, especially since the same spiritual truths have been revealed by Baha'u'llah, and I don't need to put on waders to find them!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I guess that includes me.