Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[CG Didymus]

Yes, I already know that they pick and choose which Bible verses they use. No different to many Christians, really.

Yes, Christians... "Unto us a child will be given..."
Baha'is... "For when he the spirit of truth comes, he will lead us unto all truth."

Seems so clear and obvious.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Then is Jesus the "Lamb" referred to in Revelation?

This one is about Jesus:

35 The next day, John was standing there again with two of his disciples. 36 As he watched Jesus walk by, he said, "Look, the Lamb of God" John 1:35-36


Revelation is about return of the Lamb of God.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes! Some still do!
I've been reading Christian posts explaining that it was Obama's/Biden's fault that Putin has been upset,....... leading to this! ........ when it is mostly Christians in Ukraine who are struggling against this international assassin.

Politics comes way before faith for some, I think.

I'm not too confident in getting an answer from Baha'is, so I'll run it by you. I think the Baha'i claims and prophecies is that the world will go through terrible times before it ever recognizes the "truth" of Baha'u'llah. God's plan was always for it to be rejected.

Then after the terrible times, the people will turn to the Baha'is or at least adopt their ideas of setting up a world government, the lessor peace. But, since that is secular, it won't be enough. To get to the most Great Peace, the people of world will have to let Baha'is be the governing body. And, I suppose, most all will become Baha'is. I think that is what is being predicted by the Baha'i Faith. How do you see it?

 

[CG Didymus]

You quote a few interesting things.
- Yes, the God of Abraham likes the burnt offering of flesh the most. The same happened with Abel. Not surprising, I too like them. Are we not made in his image? Let him come to India. I will offer him the best Mughulai kebabs (although perhaps they would not compare with the kebabs of Gawalmandi, Lahore. Before partition, my father-in-law resided there).
- With his lions upward, appearance of fire, bright roundness, glory of the Lord; no wonder Ezekiel swooned.
- Again with a plumb-line in his hand, I do not know which building he was constructing?
- Of course, all-mighty God can do whatever he likes (except sending his message directly to humans), but perhaps Habakkuk was talking of nails and not horns out of hands.
- Of course, Jesus was his own begotten son. Why would Jesus not be able to see him?

Is there Hindu Scriptures that have Gods appearing? Or where an incarnation, like Krishna, transforms in his spirit form? And what about wives of Gods? What do they do? In the stories, do they have children?

 

[CG Didymus]

A claim and a belief are essentially the same thing.

That is strange. If a person said that they "believe" something is true, I'd still expect they could give reasons to back up that claim, I mean, "belief".

 

[CG Didymus]

Revelation is about return of the Lamb of God.

And that is what keep asking the Baha'is. Could the Lamb and/or the Lamb that was slain be Jesus? The Bab or Baha'u'llah? I think, if not Jesus, it has to be Baha'u'llah, because the Lamb is the main character in Revelation and in the end, there is the wedding supper of the Lamb and the Lamb's book of Life.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I think the Baha'i claims and prophecies is that the world will go through terrible times before it ever recognizes the "truth" of Baha'u'llah. God's plan was always for it to be rejected.

Then after the terrible times, the people will turn to the Baha'is or at least adopt their ideas of setting up a world government, the lessor peace.

Yes.

But, since that is secular, it won't be enough. To get to the most Great Peace, the people of world will have to let Baha'is be the governing body.

No, Baha'is do not believe in this as far as I know. The lessor or the greater peace has nothing to do with Bahais running a government. It comes when humanity becomes more mature.

And, I suppose, most all will become Baha'is. I think that is what is being predicted by the Baha'i Faith. How do you see it?

Yes and no. We are told at some point, everyone becomes a believer. This does not necessarily mean Bahai. It most likely means, after many more Manifestations come, people eventually all become believers. We don't know when though.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

And that is what keep asking the Baha'is. Could the Lamb and/or the Lamb that was slain be Jesus? The Bab or Baha'u'llah? I think, if not Jesus, it has to be Baha'u'llah, because the Lamb is the main character in Revelation and in the end, there is the wedding supper of the Lamb and the Lamb's book of Life.

God can have many Lambs. In the time of Jesus, He was the Lamb. In our time, the Bab was the Lamb of God.

 

[CG Didymus]

You don't get to just re-write history and claim all of the Jewish scripture is only "anthropomorphic"?
In the OT times Yahweh had a body in the myths. so much of his body was described in Hebrew that Francesca Stavrakopoulou (Professor of Hebrew Bible and Ancient Religion.) new book is called
God: An Anatomy,
She explains these are not metaphors but descriptions of Yahweh and are meant literal,

In the broader southwest Asian context a deity having a form and body was common for this time.
And yes, 26:05, the Hebrew text, Yahweh has some serious loins according to Isiah.

Did God let Jacob win the wrestling match? But anyway, about "rewriting"... Isn't that what new religious movements do? And even reinvent God?

 

[CG Didymus]

God can have many Lambs. In the time of Jesus, He was the Lamb. In our time, the Bab was the Lamb of God.

Why not Baha'u'llah too then? The Bab is hardly mentioned by Baha'is.

 

[CG Didymus]

Officially, Abdulbaha says "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away", means "declaration of Muhammad".

Before Muhammad anyone who believed in Jesus, his sins was forgiven, because of Jesus sacrifice. When Muhammad came, this law was abolished.

Okay, all I can say is very creatively interpreted.

 

[CG Didymus]

Do not forget the AND, this is the 3rd level, the Lamentations of Berlin, this is the end of the 2nd world war.

All 3 conflicts are noted

Regards Tony

But what's happening right now is not noted? There must be something about the Middle East at least?

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh really?

Yes really... Out with the OLD and in with the NEW.
Newer scriptures are more accurate because God reveals more to the Messengers as time goes on.

 

[Trailblazer]

"Exodus 33:11
Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend."

Are you saying that is not scripture?

I am saying it is inaccurate scripture. Moses did not write it, fallible men wrote it.
God does not have a face so God cannot speak to anyone face to face.
It is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard, aside from God becoming a man.

 

[CG Didymus]

I suppose it is not possible to prove there is no God. So, it is wise not to mock, just in case.

Still, was it right for Elijah to mock the prophets of Baal? And I think the test that Elijah used was a very good way to see if a God is real or not. Why don't God believers use it today?

 

[Trailblazer]

You presented that video when asked why you believe he actually communicated with god rather than being delusional of dishonest.
Now you admit there is no such evidence in the video. Par for the course.

You asked me how I can believe with any certainly that someone who says they hear god's voice is not simply experiencing a psychotic episode and I said that I know by looking at the life of Baha'u'llah, His character, and what He did on His mission, as depicted in the video.

I never claimed that there was any evidence that proves he actually communicated with god rather than being delusional of dishonest, I only told you how I know.

I have never claimed that he was. The issue is whether you accept that he might have been.
We have plenty of evidence for people being delusional or dishonest. We know people hear voices that aren't there, and people tell lies for one reason or another. Therefore it is unreasonable to insist that he cannot have been delusional or dishonest but instead must have actually been in communication with a god for whom there is no evidence.

It is because of what I know about Baha’u’llah that I know He was not delusional or dishonest. Because you do not know what I know I can understand why you might believe he was.

note: Bahaullah telling you he had spoken to god is not evidence that he did.

Of course not. A claim is not evidence. A claim needs to be supported by evidence.

So I repeat, "How does that show that Bahaullah was not delusional or dishonest?"

The video does not show (prove) that. One would have to know much more about Baha’u’llah in order to know that He was not delusional or dishonest.

Any number of reasons, both selfish and altruistic. He could also have been delusional.

You are free to believe that if you want to but history does not bear it out.

Yet again, this has been explained to you many times. "Evidence" is something that can be independently verified. If it requires mere belief then it is not evidence.
What you claim to be "evidence" is not evidence. It is belief.

What I have is evidence, by definition, but it is not verifiable evidence and it is not proof. There is no verifiable evidence or proof that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God..

Evidence: anything that helps to prove that something is or is not true: EVIDENCE | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

Evidence is anything that you see, experience, read, or are told that causes you to believe that something is true or has really happened.
Objective evidence definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement: https://www.google.com/search

Something is scientifically verifiable if it can be tested and proven to be true. Verifiable comes from the verb verify, "authenticate" or "prove," from the Old French verifier, "find out the truth about." The Latin root is verus, or "true." Definitions of verifiable.
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/verifiable

Something that's verifiable can be proven. In a courtroom, verifiable evidence is backed up with specific proof. If you have a birth certificate, your exact time and place of birth is verifiable — in other words, you can prove where and when you were born.
Verifiable - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms | Vocabulary.com

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But what's happening right now is not noted? There must be something about the Middle East at least?

Yes, and there is Prophecy that covers the middle east.

But many may not see it thah way, as they are looking from the outside. What I mean by that is, that most likely they have not read all the Prophecy and then look from inside that frame of reference, to what is happening externally in the world.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

I have to give this one to you. A claim is a stated belief, and not all beliefs are stated. A belief one doesn't express is not a claim.

However, you do express your beliefs, so they are also claims.

I do not see it that way. It all depends upon HOW one expresses their beliefs.

A person can discuss their beliefs without making claims about them. Saying "I believe x is true" is not the same as claiming that x is true. I cannot prove x is true so I do not claim that x is true. I have always been very clear about that. (x = Baha'u'llah is a Messenger of God).

 

[Trailblazer]

His argument doesn't depend on him believing scripture, just knowing what it says. Skeptics frequently cite scripture to demonstrate its internal contradictions, the character of the deity it describes, failed and low quality prophecies, and errors in history and science.

Somebody claimed that the scriptures say that nobody has seen the face of God, and produced a couple dozen scriptures in support of that. You produced a half dozen scriptures contradicting him, then called him a hypocrite. He made his point, and you made mine about internal contradictions in those scriptures. He is not a hypocrite. A hypocrite would be somebody who says what's wrong for others to do is OK for him or her and gives either no reason for the double standard or an irrelevant one.

Point well taken. @Tiberius is not a hypocrite for the reasons you gave. I was just at my wits end last night. I hate the Old Testament. It is idiotic, all the anthropomorphism about God. The New Testament also has problems, mainly the resurrection stories, but it is nothing like the OT. It is no small wonder there are atheists.

 

[Sheldon]

and they never will.... not even the Messengers will ever see God, they only hear His Voice.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Oh really?

Yes really...

Not according to the bible that you have repeatedly claimed is true.

Newer scriptures are more accurate because God reveals more to the Messengers as time goes on.

Wow, you can hear the goal posts shifting of course. However leaving that hilarity aside, you are claiming that a deity with omniscience and omnipotence got its claims wrong the first time around.

I think that speaks for itself of course. As does your claim that a deity with limitless knowledge to create a message, an limitless power to communicate it, can become "more accurate".

The more claims theists make, the more the unevidenced contradictions start to pile up. I can see why so many rush instead to hide behind vague unfalsifiable notions of the numinous. Rather than specific falsifiable claims, like the your claim that no one has ever seen god, and that the bible is true, which as we can see here contradict each other, and no amount of tap dancing will change that fact.