Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[ppp]

There are objective evidences.

So, people keep claiming. Coming Soon...

All hat and no cattle.

 

[CG Didymus]

Note that Abdulbaha does not describe the atomic bomb. He talks about some vague unspecified force. HG Wells gave a far more accurate description of the atomic bomb in 1913, in "A World Set Free" (A bomb using the energy release of uranium, dropped from planes, leaving the battlefield contaminated by rays long after).

Also note Abdulbahah does not say that "Japan will go ablaze". It is Baha'i apologists claiming that this is what he meant by his vague statement. Standard disingenuous post hoc rationalisation. And bear in mind that Japan was constantly involved in wars during the latter part of the 19th and the early 20th century, sometimes with more powerful opponents, so even if he had said that Japan will be ablaze, it is hardly miraculous given that "a country ablaze" has long been a metaphor for being at war - and we know how the promoters of prophesies love the importance of metaphor.

Yes, I was just throwing them that bone to see if that had anything that was "prophesied" about what is happening around us now. I do think that there are predictions of cities getting "vaporized". But they might have been "pilgrim notes" of people that heard Shoghi Effendi say things. And I don't think he's considered infallible anyway.

 

[CG Didymus]

All around the world, the Baha'i offer this.

Building vibrant communities - Australian Baha'i Community

Regards Tony

Well there you go. Thanks. And look at what it says...

The Baha’i community’s efforts in social action seek to promote the wellbeing of people of all walks of life, whatever their beliefs or background. Such efforts are motivated by the desire to serve humanity and contribute to constructive social change.​

That's what I was getting at... Social "action" is what you call it.

 

[CG Didymus]

There are objective evidences.

Oh no, not again. What is the objective evidence? And it better not be Baha'u'llah and his person, his mission and his writings.

 

[CG Didymus]

We wouldn't know if His writings are not evidence. Maybe in them, there are signs of divinity. we cannot tell in them there are no divinity signs, unless we read them and think about them free from prejudgement.
Because think about it. If Baha'u'llah is indeed Manifestation of God, wasn't He able to put divinity signs in His writings?

And some people have "divinity" signs from their religion. When they compare their beliefs to the claims of the Baha'i Faith, the Baha'u'llah is found to be a false prophet. Baha'is, to get around that, say that a person can't come in with biases from their old religion. Which, in essence, means you can't trust what your old religion told you. Swell, if all we have is the Baha'i writings, then it must be true because we have nothing to compare it to.

 

[CG Didymus]

Here is another prophecy that is worth considering.

"Erelong the wicked-doers in that land will arise to heap denunciations upon the true believers, and vent their spite upon the company of the faithful. Each day they will inflict a galling wound, each hour a stunning blow. Rebuking the friends for the love they bear Bahá'u'lláh and `Abdu'l-Bahá, they will consider justified their denunciations, their scorn and malice, and spare no effort to do the friends whatever injury it lieth within their power to inflict. Such conduct is at one with the modes and practices of the people aforetime: in bygone centuries, in the days of the appearance of the holy Manifestations, the people acted in just this manner; and now, in these days, it is inevitable that they will repeat such actions, nay, act with greater perversity than before... Hence it is certain that thou wilt be afflicted with adversities, tests and injuries for the sake of the Blessed Beauty; yet these afflictions shall be the purest bounties and bestowals, and a token of thy acceptance at the Divine Threshold." (`Abdu'l-Bahá, from a Tablet — translated from the Persian)

Many such verses that indicate that, no matter how kind we can be, no matter how much we offer the path to peace, that a vast majority will offer ill intent.

"....Stupendous as is the struggle which His words foreshadow, they also testify to the complete victory which the upholders of the Greatest Name are destined eventually to achieve. Peoples, nations, adherents of divers faiths, will jointly and successively arise to shatter its unity, to sap its force, and to degrade its holy name. They will assail not only the spirit which it inculcates, but the administration which is the channel, the instrument, the embodiment of that spirit. For as the authority with which Bahá'u'lláh has invested the future Bahá'í Commonwealth becomes more and more apparent, the fiercer shall be the challenge which from every quarter will be thrown at the verities it enshrines." (In a letter written by Shoghi Effendi, 21 March 1930 to the Bahá'ís of the West, published in "The World Order of Bahá'u'lláh: Selected Letters", pp. 17-18)

There is no doubt all this will unfold.

Yet all we will continue to offer is the Peace and security of all humanity.

Regards Tony

But peace and unity is not exactly what is being offered. It is a certain belief and interpretation of God, and that Baha'u'llah is the latest manifestation of God, and that he if the fulfillment of all the prophecies of all the other religions about the coming of the promised one.

Sure peace and unity are awesome, but it includes having to believe everything else about the beliefs and claims of the Baha'i Faith. Are we inflicting great harm to Baha'is? Or is it the Baha'i Faith is lacking adequate answers to some very basic questions, like "What objective proof do you have that God is real?" Not too unreasonable considering Baha'is believe religion and science must go hand and hand... and that religion without science can become superstitious. If God can't be proven, then is God merely a superstitious belief? Is that inflicting too much pain?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Oh no, not again. What is the objective evidence? And it better not be Baha'u'llah and his person, his mission and his writings.

For example, Book of Iqan is one of the best evidences. One should read it and decide if it is work of divine or work of man. At the end, it is according to a person's judgement. How many people here have read Book of Iqan in depth?

 

[Trailblazer]

So god is sometimes right and sometimes wrong?
Who decides when god is right or wrong?

I did not say that God is sometimes right and sometimes wrong.
I said the Bible is sometimes right and sometimes wrong.
The Bible was not written by God, it was written by fallible men.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'd have thought the inference was obvious from the original claim? If a teacher has a poor record we don't generally blame the pupils.

But the teacher does not have a poor record.

 

[Trailblazer]

So when you claimed to believe the bible is true, it was my fault for not realising you meant at least half of it was not true?

I am not into the blame game. That is your game.

It seems to me that the only reason you are on this forum is to point out other peoples faults and mistakes, since that is all you ever do.

Other people always have to be wrong so you can be right. It must be tough always having to be right, but you are not always right because you are not God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then you can not use the works of Mr B (the claim) as evidence that the works of Mr B show he was divinely inspired.

The Writings of Baha'u'llah are not the claim. They 'contain' some of His claims but they are not the claim.
The Writings of Baha'u'llah are 'part' of the evidence that supports His claims.

Ah, so we should stop saying it. But then new people are born, and then they'll never hear it. What to do, what to do...

When new people are born they can hear the message of Baha'u'llah so they will know the 'true meaning' of the gospel message and what Christ did to save us.

So you've got your own interpretation of different religion. Cool. I'm not convinced.

No, we have a different interpretation of the story of Adam and Eve. If you want to believe that Christian interpretation you are welcome to it.

Yeah, I don't find your argument convincing. In my experience, ALL religions aim for a unity of all people - unity in that particular religion, of course. Once again, what Bahai is doing is nothing different to any other religion. Bahai is nothing special.

Give it up for lost. No other religion teaches what the Baha'i Faith teaches. All religions aim for a unity of all people in that particular religion but they do not teach the unity of mankind.

Unity of humanity is one of the central teachings of the Baháʼí Faith.[1] The Baháʼí teachings state that since all humans have been created in the image of God, God does not make any distinction between people regardless of race or colour.[2] Thus, because all humans have been created equal, they all require equal opportunities and treatment.[1] Thus the Baháʼí view promotes the unity of humanity, and that people's vision should be world-embracing and that people should love the whole world rather than just their nation.[2] The teaching, however, does not equal unity with uniformity, but instead the Baháʼí writings advocate for the principle of unity in diversity where the variety in the human race is valued.[3]

Baháʼí Faith and the unity of humanity - Wikipedia

 

[ppp]

Oh no, not again. What is the objective evidence? And it better not be Baha'u'llah and his person, his mission and his writings.

For example, Book of Iqan is one of the best evidences. One should read it and decide if it is work of divine or work of man. At the end, it is according to a person's judgement. How many people here have read Book of Iqan in depth?

Lets say that I read the Book of Iqan, studying it cover to cover for 12 years. Then at the beginning of the thirteenth year, I am convinced that some proposition that it claims to be true, is true. How would I go about testing my conclusion against reality? How would I confirm that my conclusion corresponds with the reality?

 

[rational experiences]

Human memory.

We are all from sperm ovary memory.

Father mother first adults. We become adults. We are baby memory.

The same DNA parent everywhere as they manifested into the ground life from spirit. Walked through from the eternal.

Science can't see the eternal it was never burning.

Highest human being memory conscious spirituality natural innate.

Family. Family who loved all family anywhere.

Our natural history.

Then one day the falling star that was falling constantly ....killed off dinosaurs. Gave earth ice that cooled the heavens made new burning gases fall.

Changed the mind brain of humans.

Men remembered science as the recorded voice of ancient man that had burnt all life to death before could be heard speaking. The state man's AI machines had caused himself.

So his dead brother taught him science.

His spiritual father said don't listen its evil words. It's not safe. But he and his brothers agreed to change the tribal life.

Wisdom parents grand parents great grand parents. They were young men.

Arrogant and ignorant.

Their unnatural changed minds became humans slavers to build status for their group. Murdered anyone. Their minds were gone.

History how the man designer brothers brother enslaved innocent family with a not changed life minds spiritual family.

How it came to emerge via the fallen star. How old science memory was re introduced. As to move an object it's heated rock releases gases.

The story a fallen star causes old memories to emerge about our origin human father mother's holy life versus science of men.

When you get visions they tell stories. Most visions I saw had portions of information never all of the information.

Hence bahuallah would not and could realise as yet the full vision history as it was not revealed. I can only relate the portion in my own age. Heavenly development. Known by spiritual human gaining advice.

So he did.

The human status don't kill the messenger was said for a human advised meaning. Rational human advice for living in a community is given. To remind us we are family first.

What science had caused.

I know I've lived the event of spiritual human understanding. How it was given versus why it had been removed from consciousness.

Our holy father not a God was a human. He is our consciousness. Heavenly causes was by term AI.

Science doesn't control falling burning gas.

As men saw how an image of a man and animals formed in clouds it's because he was living as a human seeing it caused.

Why dead dinosaurs images are seen in clouds too. Yet do you see them roaming the earth alive today scientist?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Lets say that I read the Book of Iqan, studying it cover to cover for 12 years. Then at the beginning of the thirteenth year, I am convinced that some proposition that it claims to be true, is true. How would I go about testing my conclusion against reality? How would I confirm that my conclusion corresponds with the reality?

If it is from God, then it must have the answer to all your questions. How could a book be from God, yet, if a sincere person have valid questions such as yours are not answered in the Book, and yet God expects people to believe in it?

 

[CG Didymus]

Lets say that I read the Book of Iqan, studying it cover to cover for 12 years. Then at the beginning of the thirteenth year, I am convinced that some proposition that it claims to be true, is true. How would I go about testing my conclusion against reality? How would I confirm that my conclusion corresponds with the reality?

Let's read it together...

Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted His people and summoned them to the haven of security and peace. None, however, heeded His call. Each day they inflicted on His blessed person such pain and suffering that no one believed He could survive. How frequently they denied Him, how malevolently they hinted their suspicion against Him! Thus it hath been revealed: “And as often as a company of His people passed by Him, they derided Him. To them He said: ‘Though ye scoff at us now, we will scoff at you hereafter even as ye scoff at us. In the end ye shall know.’”3 Long afterward, He several times promised victory to His companions and fixed the hour thereof. But when the hour struck, the divine promise was not fulfilled. This caused a few among the small number of His followers to turn away from Him, and to this testify the records of the best-known books. These you must certainly have perused; if not, undoubtedly you will. Finally, as stated in books and traditions, there remained with Him only forty or seventy-two of His followers. At last from the depth of His being He cried aloud: “Lord! Leave not upon the land a single dweller from among the unbelievers.”
​

Already Baha'is have to explain why Baha'u'llah says that Noah "exhorted" his people for 950 years. Then the story has nothing to do with the Bible story. Is it based on an Islamic version? Let's read on...

And after Noah the light of the countenance of Húd shone forth above the horizon of creation. For well-nigh seven hundred years, according to the sayings of men, He exhorted the people to turn their faces and draw nearer unto the Riḍván of the divine presence. What showers of afflictions rained upon Him, until at last His adjurations bore the fruit of increased rebelliousness, and His assiduous endeavors resulted in the willful blindness of His people. “And their unbelief shall only increase for the unbelievers their own perdition.”6

And after Him there appeared from the Riḍván of the Eternal, the Invisible, the holy person of Ṣáliḥ, Who again summoned the people to the river of everlasting life. For over a hundred years He admonished them to hold fast unto the commandments of God and eschew that which is forbidden. His admonitions, however, yielded no fruit, and His pleading proved of no avail.
​

Who could forget Hud and Salih? I assume they were "manifestations" of God. Why don't Baha'i talk about them? What religion did they start? What Scriptures did they reveal? What were their teachings about God? Let me jump ahead to Jesus.

And when the days of Moses were ended, and the light of Jesus, shining forth from the dayspring of the Spirit, encompassed the world, all the people of Israel arose in protest against Him. They clamored that He Whose advent the Bible had foretold must needs promulgate and fulfill the laws of Moses, whereas this youthful Nazarene, who laid claim to the station of the divine Messiah, had annulled the law of divorce and of the sabbath day—the most weighty of all the laws of Moses. Moreover, what of the signs of the Manifestation yet to come? These people of Israel are even unto the present day still expecting that Manifestation which the Bible hath foretold! How many Manifestations of Holiness, how many Revealers of the light everlasting, have appeared since the time of Moses, and yet Israel, wrapt in the densest veils of satanic fancy and false imaginings, is still expectant that the idol of her own handiwork will appear with such signs as she herself hath conceived! Thus hath God laid hold of them for their sins, hath extinguished in them the spirit of faith, and tormented them with the flames of the nethermost fire. And this for no other reason except that Israel refused to apprehend the meaning of such words as have been revealed in the Bible concerning the signs of the coming Revelation.
​

Here's something about Hud and Salih. They were mentioned in the Quran...

Information about both of these prophets is found in the Quran where Hud is mentioned 7 times and Salih is mentioned 10 times. But outside of the Quran, it is a problem finding anything about these prophets. I have not found them in any of the hadiths except once in Al-Tirmidhi’s hadith which we will look at, at the very end of this video.

Hud and Salih are NOT found in the archeological records, and not even their names are founded, not common anyway in graffiti that’s written all over the Middle East from the Levant all the way down into Saudi Arabia. Everything we know about them comes from the Quran with just a little added information from some old Arabian folk tales. But it is very hard to tell what is accurate and what is not accurate in those folk tales.​

Well, no need reading any further. It's going to take me a long time to come to the place where I believe this stuff. What do you think?

 

[CG Didymus]

If it is from God, then it must have the answer to all your questions. How could a book be from God, yet, if a sincere person have valid questions such as yours are not answered in the Book, and yet God expects people to believe in it?

I'm sure you love it and get a lot out of it. But really? Hud and Salih? And that story about Noah is supposed to be true, but the Bible story isn't?

 

[ppp]

If it is from God, then it must have the answer to all your questions.

Not necessarily.

How could a book be from God, yet, if a sincere person have valid questions such as yours are not answered in the Book, and yet God expects people to believe in it?

Either you do not understand my question, or you are ignoring it in order to deliver a line from a script.

 

[joelr]

Correct, this is not about the Baha'i Faith, but about a new world order.

It is about what is happening in the world. Is it unfolding as per prophecies in the Baha'i Writings, about what will happen in the world, in the process of building of a new world order.

You may not be aware, that the first Baha'i house of worship was actually built in Russia, but that is another story not destined to be part of the current new world order.

Regards Tony

You cannot say "this is not about the Baha'i Faith" then say "Is it unfolding as per prophecies in the Baha'i Writings" and expect to make any sort of sense?

But again, the Bahai prophecy about a new world order has nothing to do with what is happening with Russia. The prophecy makes specific predictions that the entire world will follow an order that clearly means they will follow the Bahai religion. It's isn't about just any random world order? But this isn't going to change any world order?
Every time any world event happens religions are all like "it's the prophecies!"
Reading the prophecy about a new order it's clear he's saying everyone will follow the religion.

 

[joelr]

Did God let Jacob win the wrestling match? But anyway, about "rewriting"... Isn't that what new religious movements do? And even reinvent God?

New religions can do whatever they want. I'm saying in context of talking about Judaism during the OT, in scripture Yahweh was seen and had body parts and red skin and so on.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You cannot say "this is not about the Baha'i Faith" then say "Is it unfolding as per prophecies in the Baha'i Writings" and expect to make any sort of sense?

But again, the Bahai prophecy about a new world order has nothing to do with what is happening with Russia. The prophecy makes specific predictions that the entire world will follow an order that clearly means they will follow the Bahai religion. It's isn't about just any random world order? But this isn't going to change any world order?
Every time any world event happens religions are all like "it's the prophecies!"
Reading the prophecy about a new order it's clear he's saying everyone will follow the religion.

The lesser peace is not about the Baha'i.

It is in prophecy

Regards Tony