Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[Sheldon]

We are creations of God. I believe He does not want His creations be misguided, and only materialistic and worldly.

We weren't created we evolved, as have all living things. However if a deity didn't want us to be only material beings, then it wasn't very smart to have us evolve as part of a material world and universe...

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That's hilarious.

Baháʼí–Bábí split - Wikipedia

Is that how you get around it? By claiming that any different sect is a completely different religion altogether, so it doesn't count as a different sect?

Would you say, Christianity is a sect of Jewish Faith?
I wouldn't say that. They are independent Revelations, as their founders were two. Moses was the Founder of Jewish Faith, and Jesus founder of Christianity.
Likewise Bahaullah is the founder of Bahai Faith.

 

[Trailblazer]

If God is omnipotent and omniscient and perfect, I don't see any other way to interpret that. Anything that God creates must necessarily come out exactly as he intended to create it. If something comes out contrary to his intent then he must either be not perfect or not omnipotent. Or there is something omnipotent working against him. I do not see any other logical option.

God is omnipotent and omniscient and perfect, and God gave man free will to choose between good and evil, so any moral choices humans make are a matter of choice. I don't see any other way to interpret that.

Anything that God creates must necessarily come out exactly as he intended to create it.

That's right, and It all came out that way.

God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good and He validated it completely. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.
‎Genesis 1:31 KJV

But God gave humans free will and free will is the fly in the ointment. After humans were created good, God was out of the game. God created humans with a purpose in mind and God revealed what that purpose is through His Messengers, but God allows humans to decide whether they will fulfill that purpose or not.

If something comes out contrary to his intent then he must either be not perfect or not omnipotent. Or there is something omnipotent working against him. I do not see any other logical option.

Apparently you do not understand what omnipotence means. It does not mean God exercises control over everything in creation, it only means that God is all-powerful so God could exercise control if He chose to do so, but God only does what He chooses to do, not everything He is capable of doing.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209

 

[Trailblazer]

I hold the various depictions of the Abrahamic God in such low esteem. He falls well beneath my minimum moral standards. He is not worthy of me or the people I love or the people I'm indifferent towards or the people I hate. He is a moral monster.

Only if you believe the anthropomorphism in the Old Testament.
What makes you think that these 'human authors' knew anything about God?

 

[Sheldon]

If God created a humanity and had to destroy it and try again that would be because humanity is not living according to what God created them for.

Then it would not be an omniscient deity, and besides this rather negates the idea of us having free will, if a deity destroys us for exercising it, every time things don't turn out the way it wants.

 

[Trailblazer]

If humans can mess up God's plans then God isn't infallible. And he certainly didn't do the plans right.

God did the plans right but humans have messed up what God had planned for them because God gave them free will to choose to mess up or not mess up. It is that simple.

That does not mean that humans will not eventually do what God planned for them, humanity as a whole just is not there yet.

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it............” The Promised Day is Come, p. 116

God’s Purpose

 

[Trailblazer]

Then it would not be an omniscient deity, and besides this rather negates the idea of us having free will, if a deity destroys us for exercising it, every time things don't turn out the way it wants.

I do not believe that God is going to destroy us for exercising our free will as that is not a Baha'i belief.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is just your personal opinion. Certainly not a fact.

I never claimed it was a fact. It is a personal opinion, a belief.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's hilarious.

Baháʼí–Bábí split - Wikipedia

Is that how you get around it? By claiming that any different sect is a completely different religion altogether, so it doesn't count as a different sect?

The Babi Faith was a completely different religion.

Bábism, also known as the Bábi Faith[1] (Persian: بابیه, romanized: Babiyye), is a monotheistic religion which professes that there is one incorporeal, unknown, and incomprehensible God[2][3] who manifests his will in an unending series of theophanies, called Manifestation of God. It has no more than a few thousand adherents according to current estimates, most of whom are concentrated in Iran.[4][5][6] It was founded by ʻAli Muhammad Shirazi who first assumed the title of Báb (lit. 'Gate') from which the religion gets its name, out of the belief that he was the gate to the Twelfth Imam.[7] However throughout his ministry his titles and claims underwent much evolution as the Báb progressively outlined his teachings.[8]

Founded in 1844, the Bábi Faith flourished in Iran until 1852, then lingered on in exile in the Ottoman Empire, especially Cyprus, as well as underground in Iran. An anomaly amongst Islamic messianic movements, the Bábí movement signaled a break with Shia Islam, beginning a new religious system with its own unique laws, teachings, and practices. While Bábism was violently opposed by both clerical and government establishments, it led to the founding of the Baháʼí Faith, whose followers consider the religion founded by the Báb as a predecessor to their own. Baháʼí sources maintain that the remains of the Bab were clandestinely rescued by a handful of Bábis and then hidden. Over time the remains were secretly transported according to the instructions of Baháʼu'lláh and then ʻAbdu'l-Bahá through Isfahan, Kermanshah, Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, and then by sea to Acre on the plain below Mount Carmel in 1899.[9] On 21 March 1909, the remains were interred in a special tomb, the Shrine of the Báb, erected for this purpose by ʻAbdu'l-Bahá, on Mount Carmel in present-day Haifa, Israel.[10]

Bábism - Wikipedia

 

[ppp]

But either way, if you think of any other God, in this creation, we see some species are more beautiful than others. Some animals are more powerful than others.
I means, for example a fly, versus Peacock.
Is it fait that peacocks are so beautiful while Flys who sit on feces are so ugly?
Or is it fair some people are tall and good looking than others. Some people are smarter than others?
If you consider any God, at the end this is His creation which seems to be unfair.

There are a lot of problems with that paragraph. But I am going to skip over most if them to point out that I am saying that what you describe as god is immoral. Specifically he fails miserably at any and all of the moral metrics -- empathy, equity, reciprocity and compassion. Which is why, if I thought that he existed, he would be unworthy of my respect. I would be justified in reviling him.

But, either way, all species are needed and serve a purpose.

That is untrue. Obviously. The overwhelming majority of the species that have ever existed are extinct.

In the world of humanity, there are righteous people and misguided ones to different degrees. All of them came to existence according to the will of God. Everyone of them serves a purpose in this world.

Even if I believed that, that would not change my evaluation of that god. He would still be unworthy of me. Of all humanity.

Thus humanity also may loose some part of it, but it will turn to a better creation.

I would not care about a god's purpose until he could demonstrate to my satisfaction that his purpose is worth caring about. As it stands he would merely be some guy using sentient beings for his own selfish purposes. No different from any other resource-hogging billionaire.

Why should I care about god's goals more than I care about my fallow humans?

 

[ppp]

I never claimed it was a fact. It is a personal opinion, a belief.

You stated it as a fact.

The Messengers of God are the evidence that God exists since they were sent by God and they revealed God.

Did you wish to retract that claim?

 

[rational experiences]

If a human says I own the ability to think for myself. Humans do.

All previous old human experiences gone. Happened. Were discussed.

The teaching should have said all new born man woman babies today are holy.

But as man invented thesis for science man only wrote a summation about himself. Determining he lied about God.

As God is not a humans thesis. No human invented the presence created creation.

Instead most of you use reference and intend the old every day.

So then we get chastised if the newly born baby pretends it knows better than its adult predecessors.

As they all including science impose every old tradition to preach to that baby.

So a baby who grows into an adult if they are intelligent would say I will ignore false preachers. Being anyone using data old themes.

I'll tell my story right where I am. Yes I read your information but I don't agree.

Science included.

How am I wrong?

Who says but you have to infer to old to make any status now.

Okay I say new. The new messages from Russia's hit star fall that changed most of you from a polite well mannered human mind into what you now all Ai by interference preach.

False statements as transmitters communicate to interfere with the human designer introduced transmitters cooling then burning then cooling.

Re recording sending changing heard old human data as status AI. It's sent everywhere it doesn't belong interferring with the subliminal psyche.

Science thinking like all humans said I will study the effects. Proven by psychic thinker. They proved its true.

What science a human mind introduced by machines causes. Machine history the science of the bible.

You ignore it was written about machines history technology.

So I've told you updated modern human life mind advice. Everyone a human. Everyone owning the origin two parents advice. All of us.

I said my brother once was a loving kind caring spiritual family member. Tribal.

I told you the star fall from sun causes came back irradiated some of them as UFO effect. Changed brain mind introduced.

He sought that advice as science. Father told him not to. He would not accept spiritual advice.

Beginning his evil brothers anti of life against us all by human behaviours. Life choices civilisation versus tribal. Then all invented technologies.

I'm not wrong you self idolators of just a human are wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

We weren't created we evolved, as have all living things. However if a deity didn't want us to be only material beings, then it wasn't very smart to have us evolve as part of a material world and universe...

@InvestigateTruth said "He does not want His creations be misguided, and only materialistic and worldly." He did not say that the deity did not want us to be material beings. The deity wanted us to be material beings so we could traverse the material world and learn to be spiritual beings.

Why do spiritual beings--human souls--begin their lives in the physical world? According to well-known Baha'i author, scholar, and educator John Hatcher, the world is a classroom designed by God to instigate and nurture mental and spiritual growth. The Purpose of Physical Reality examines the components of this classroom to show how everyday experience leads to spiritual insight. Viewing life in this way, we can learn to appreciate the overall justice of God's plan and the subtle interplay between human free will and divine assistance in unleashing human potential. The idea of physical reality as a divine teaching device not only prepares us for further progress in the life beyond, it also provides practical advice about how to attain spiritual and intellectual understanding while we are living on earth.
https://www.amazon.com/Purpose-Physical-Reality-John-Hatcher/dp/1931847231

 

[rational experiences]

Further to the statement as we live inside a natural heavens as biology only and first no science thesis energy mass changes to mass is biology.

Science was theoried direct about mass to machines only.

A natural heavens for biology is the only holy state. I can preach a holy heavens is my human life holy heavens the same as any man baby. Without giving myself a human status about sharing advice.

 

[Trailblazer]

You stated it as a fact.

Did you wish to retract that claim?

I never stated anything as a fact.

Did I ever say "the fact is?
No, I said "The Messengers of God are the evidence that God exists since they were sent by God and they revealed God."

That is a belief, not a fact. It can never be a fact since it can never be proven to be true.
QED

 

[Tiberius]

The Writings of Baha'u'llah are not the claim. They 'contain' some of His claims but they are not the claim.
The Writings of Baha'u'llah are 'part' of the evidence that supports His claims.

Then what is the claim?

When new people are born they can hear the message of Baha'u'llah so they will know the 'true meaning' of the gospel message and what Christ did to save us.

And how do they hear it? The only way I can think of to make sure that new people can hear the message is to make sure the message is being said "over and over and over and over again."

You know, in the way you said we shouldn't.

No, we have a different interpretation of the story of Adam and Eve. If you want to believe that Christian interpretation you are welcome to it.

And that's the only difference, is it?

Give it up for lost. No other religion teaches what the Baha'i Faith teaches. All religions aim for a unity of all people in that particular religion but they do not teach the unity of mankind.

Unity of humanity is one of the central teachings of the Baháʼí Faith.[1] The Baháʼí teachings state that since all humans have been created in the image of God, God does not make any distinction between people regardless of race or colour.[2] Thus, because all humans have been created equal, they all require equal opportunities and treatment.[1] Thus the Baháʼí view promotes the unity of humanity, and that people's vision should be world-embracing and that people should love the whole world rather than just their nation.[2] The teaching, however, does not equal unity with uniformity, but instead the Baháʼí writings advocate for the principle of unity in diversity where the variety in the human race is valued.[3]

Baháʼí Faith and the unity of humanity - Wikipedia

Yes, Bahai teaches is, but it is by no means the only religion to do so. All great religious traditions teach unity, oneness

 

[Tiberius]

The Babi Faith was a completely different religion.

Bábism, also known as the Bábi Faith[1] (Persian: بابیه, romanized: Babiyye), is a monotheistic religion which professes that there is one incorporeal, unknown, and incomprehensible God[2][3] who manifests his will in an unending series of theophanies, called Manifestation of God. It has no more than a few thousand adherents according to current estimates, most of whom are concentrated in Iran.[4][5][6] It was founded by ʻAli Muhammad Shirazi who first assumed the title of Báb (lit. 'Gate') from which the religion gets its name, out of the belief that he was the gate to the Twelfth Imam.[7] However throughout his ministry his titles and claims underwent much evolution as the Báb progressively outlined his teachings.[8]

Founded in 1844, the Bábi Faith flourished in Iran until 1852, then lingered on in exile in the Ottoman Empire, especially Cyprus, as well as underground in Iran. An anomaly amongst Islamic messianic movements, the Bábí movement signaled a break with Shia Islam, beginning a new religious system with its own unique laws, teachings, and practices. While Bábism was violently opposed by both clerical and government establishments, it led to the founding of the Baháʼí Faith, whose followers consider the religion founded by the Báb as a predecessor to their own. Baháʼí sources maintain that the remains of the Bab were clandestinely rescued by a handful of Bábis and then hidden. Over time the remains were secretly transported according to the instructions of Baháʼu'lláh and then ʻAbdu'l-Bahá through Isfahan, Kermanshah, Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, and then by sea to Acre on the plain below Mount Carmel in 1899.[9] On 21 March 1909, the remains were interred in a special tomb, the Shrine of the Báb, erected for this purpose by ʻAbdu'l-Bahá, on Mount Carmel in present-day Haifa, Israel.[10]

Bábism - Wikipedia

Sects OF Bahá'ís

 

[rational experiences]

@InvestigateTruth said "He does not want His creations be misguided, and only materialistic and worldly." He did not say that the deity did not want us to be material beings. The deity wanted us to be material beings so we could traverse the material world and learn to be spiritual beings.

Why do spiritual beings--human souls--begin their lives in the physical world? According to well-known Baha'i author, scholar, and educator John Hatcher, the world is a classroom designed by God to instigate and nurture mental and spiritual growth. The Purpose of Physical Reality examines the components of this classroom to show how everyday experience leads to spiritual insight. Viewing life in this way, we can learn to appreciate the overall justice of God's plan and the subtle interplay between human free will and divine assistance in unleashing human potential. The idea of physical reality as a divine teaching device not only prepares us for further progress in the life beyond, it also provides practical advice about how to attain spiritual and intellectual understanding while we are living on earth.
https://www.amazon.com/Purpose-Physical-Reality-John-Hatcher/dp/1931847231

The human ego says I know my purpose has self special meaning.

It doesn't.

You live with garden nature insects animals humans together.

The purpose was survival. Intelligence taught you how to survive whilst you live. We were naturally family loving with stated human being human purpose.

The idea of yourself is what you fail to ascertain lies.

 

[Trailblazer]

Even if I believed that, that would not change my evaluation of that god. He would still be unworthy of me. Of all humanity.

Why would God be unworthy?

I would not care about a god's purpose until he could demonstrate to my satisfaction that his purpose is worth caring about.

How would God demonstrate that?

Why should I care about god's goals more than I care about my fellow humans?

God's goals are for you to care about your fellow humans. God needs nothing for Himself.
Why would an omnipotent/omniscient God have any needs?

 

[ppp]

I can understand that many may not like it. But I don't see why this cannot be the way of a True God?

I have been turning this sentence over in my head while washing the dishes. And I think that what it comes down to is that you think that a creator has value and moral authority by mere fact of being a creator; whereas I don't. As far as I am concerned, a creator is just another shlub with power until they demonstrate other wise. The only way to convince me of value and moral authority is through an explanation and demonstration that I find to be valuable and moral.