Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[ppp]

The truth does not change regardless if the conclusion we make is correct or false.

As it turns out, I already knew that.

 

[ppp]

Sure You can.

So, I am more creative than your god?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, I am more creative than your god?

Give it a go, see how that works out.

Feel free to give us your most creative and progressive thought possible.

Put the money where the mouth is type of challenge.

Baha'u'llah and all the Messengers have offered that Challenge.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

Give it a go, see how that works out.

Feel free to give us your most creative and progressive thought possible.

Put the money where the mouth is type of challenge.

Baha'u'llah and all the Messengers have offered that Challenge.

Regards Tony

A challenge from you? No, Tony. You would first have to demonstrate to my satisfaction that you are able and willing to carry on a rational conversation and address the points of your interlocutor in a direct and frank fashion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A challenge from you? No, Tony. You would first have to demonstrate to my satisfaction that you are able and willing to carry on a rational conversation and address the points of your interlocutor in a direct and frank fashion.

That was the easy answer, put it back on me.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

@TransmutingSoul Don't mistake my response for debate or invitation. I was simply informing you of the way that things are. Take it or leave it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

@TransmutingSoul Don't mistake my response for debate or invitation. I was simply informing you of the way that things are. Take it or leave it.

I see it has been made clear.

God is only proved by the Messenger. The Mesenger is proved by their person, their life and the Message.

This OP is about Prophecy, or predictions found in the writings of Baha’u’llah, which also include the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi, which is the Message.

It was a Message that lasted from around 1844 to 1957.

I noticed last night the President of Ukraine called on America to be the leaders of peace.

This is already foretold that this will be the case and America has been undertaking that role since the 2nd world war, a role that needs to be embraced by a UN, that is given those powers by all the Nations.

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So, I am more creative than your god?

I don't know. How can I know until I see you creating a better creation. So, first create one, then I can see.

 

[CG Didymus]

“And We will most certainly try you with somewhat of fear and hunger and loss of property and lives and fruits; and give good news to the patient.”
(Surah Baqarah 2:155)

…and he said: “O Jabir, it has a general meaning and a special meaning.
The special meaning is that hunger will afflict Kufa and especially the
opponents of Muhammad’s progeny and will destroy them. As for the general
meaning, there will be terror and hunger in Shaam that has never been faced
before. Hunger will be before the rising of the Qaim (a.s.) but terror will be
there after his rising.” This report is also mentioned in Tafsir Ayyashi through
another chain of narrators.

Here's from a Jewish site...

Belief in the eventual coming of the mashiach is a basic and fundamental part of traditional Judaism. It is part of Rambam's 13 Principles of Faith, the minimum requirements of Jewish belief. In the Shemoneh Esrei prayer, recited three times daily, we pray for all of the elements of the coming of the mashiach: ingathering of the exiles; restoration of the religious courts of justice; an end of wickedness, sin and heresy; reward to the righteous; rebuilding of Jerusalem; restoration of the line of King David; and restoration of Temple service.

The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

Before the time of the mashiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)

The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).
​

Interesting that they have mashiach setting up a world government in Israel. However, the suffering and war are before he comes. Then what? He makes the changes happen. He wins battle for Israel. He is not thrown in prison. And, most important, they say that he will be a normal human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being. Baha'is say a "manifestation" is a special creation. Close on some things. But nowhere near on others.

 

[CG Didymus]

“And We will most certainly try you with somewhat of fear and hunger and loss of property and lives and fruits; and give good news to the patient.”
(Surah Baqarah 2:155)

…and he said: “O Jabir, it has a general meaning and a special meaning.
The special meaning is that hunger will afflict Kufa and especially the
opponents of Muhammad’s progeny and will destroy them. As for the general
meaning, there will be terror and hunger in Shaam that has never been faced
before. Hunger will be before the rising of the Qaim (a.s.) but terror will be
there after his rising.” This report is also mentioned in Tafsir Ayyashi through
another chain of narrators.

Here's a site talking about Kalki...

Kalki returns to Shambhala after annihilating the wicked and restoring the good. This symbolizes the conclusion of the Kali Yuga and the beginning of the Satya Yuga, a new cycle of existence. According to the Kalki Purana, Kalki then returns to heaven. Following that, a fresh cycle begins. The next time Kalki comes, so will the next world order.

In the aftermath of Kalki's return, people will live in peace and harmony. There will be no more need for religion as everyone will be united by common goals and philosophy. It is said that after this event, even the gods will abandon their heavens and come down to Earth.

Kalki will come when humanity is at its worst and needs him the most. However, he won't stop there - he will also clean up corruption in government institutions and police forces worldwide.

In addition, it's been suggested that he will also banish poverty, famine, war, disease, and injustice from the earth.
​

Again close, but still lots of differences. The main one being that Kalki doesn't get thrown in jail.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Authors did not want most people know the story is not literal. Remember, this is how the Book was sealed. It means the symbolism is so difficult to be understood by most people.

Where does it say the Gospels and the rest of the NT were sealed? Are you saying that because something in Daniel got sealed, everything in the Bible and NT got sealed? I don't believe that. Although, maybe wrong, I still think the gospel writers were telling the story as if that is exactly what happened... that after Jesus died, he came back to life. Nothing wrong with that. Why doubt it? An all-powerful God that created people out of dirt, surely he could re-animate dead tissue. Or, they were making things up to embellish the story to make Jesus a God.

I'm okay with either one of those. The Baha'i interpretation just doesn't work for me. Mainly because I don't think the authors ever intended the resurrection story to be symbolic. And, unfortunately that makes Abdul Baha' and the Baha'i interpretation wrong. I know for Baha'is that can't be, but don't see any indications that the story was meant to be symbolic.

 

[CG Didymus]

No, God couldn't come up with a better plan.
It is like saying why we die. Couldn't God creat us in a way we live forever here on earth?
No, because our soul will live a spiritual life after death. We are told It will be better, than earth.

That is assuming the Baha'i definition of God is correct. Some religions believe in reincarnation, some in a resurrection. So, in other religions, God did have a different plan. Why is the Baha'i Faith the one that is true? Baha'is have to come up with explanations and interpretation that make the other religions correct in some things and false in others.

Then... if this spiritual world is better, then why did God make this one worse? Only to test people? But how aware are people of their soul? I'm sure some people only know their physical selves. They don't believe or have any concept of a soul. They make their decisions, right or wrong, by their physical needs. Then what? God is going to punish that soul of the human? Why? What did the soul do? It was a captive in a human body that had a brain that didn't believe in spiritual things. Unless you think the person's soul didn't believe?

 

[CG Didymus]

I can think of several better plans.

Oh, now you think you're smarter than God? Hmmm? Things are pretty sucking here. You know what... let's hear your ideas. Maybe God surrounded himself with "yes" men, and no one ever told him that his plan sucked.

 

[CG Didymus]

We do not have all details of older religions.
It is very possible people added or invented things that were not part of the religion of God. Anyways in Bahai view, the ordinances of Bible, Quran or older religions are not suitable for this Age.

Were they suited for any age? Stoning, sacrificing animals? Really? That's from God? Is it better with the Baha'i laws? Tattooing a thief and burning an arsonist?

And I think for sure people invented things. Going from God's "true" message to human sacrifice? Yeah, I don't think the Aztecs ever had a "true" message. I think they invented their whole religion.

 

[CG Didymus]

I see it has been made clear.

God is only proved by the Messenger. The Mesenger is proved by their person, their life and the Message.

This OP is about Prophecy, or predictions found in the writings of Baha’u’llah, which also include the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi, which is the Message.

It was a Message that lasted from around 1853 to 1957.

I noticed last night the President of Ukraine called on America to be the leaders of peace.

This is already foretold that this will be the case and America has been undertaking that role since the 2nd world war, a role that needs to be embraced by a UN, that is given those powers by all the Nations.

Regards Tony

The United States a leader of peace? We almost had a civil war over the last election.

 

[CG Didymus]

Give it a go, see how that works out.

Feel free to give us your most creative and progressive thought possible.

Put the money where the mouth is type of challenge.

Baha'u'llah and all the Messengers have offered that Challenge.

Regards Tony

We could make a simulated world and try different ideas. And one of them could be the Baha'i plan. Wouldn't it be weird if everything was going good and then I simulation got hacked.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Here's from a Jewish site...

Belief in the eventual coming of the mashiach is a basic and fundamental part of traditional Judaism. It is part of Rambam's 13 Principles of Faith, the minimum requirements of Jewish belief. In the Shemoneh Esrei prayer, recited three times daily, we pray for all of the elements of the coming of the mashiach: ingathering of the exiles; restoration of the religious courts of justice; an end of wickedness, sin and heresy; reward to the righteous; rebuilding of Jerusalem; restoration of the line of King David; and restoration of Temple service.

The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

Before the time of the mashiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)

The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).
​

Interesting that they have mashiach setting up a world government in Israel. However, the suffering and war are before he comes. Then what? He makes the changes happen. He wins battle for Israel. He is not thrown in prison. And, most important, they say that he will be a normal human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being. Baha'is say a "manifestation" is a special creation. Close on some things. But nowhere near on others.

Right. Torah also prophecies of Lord of Hosts, who comes at the End Time.
There is injustice before the Promised One, but also, a destruction that comes with it, as Daniel said.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Here's a site talking about Kalki...

Kalki returns to Shambhala after annihilating the wicked and restoring the good. This symbolizes the conclusion of the Kali Yuga and the beginning of the Satya Yuga, a new cycle of existence. According to the Kalki Purana, Kalki then returns to heaven. Following that, a fresh cycle begins. The next time Kalki comes, so will the next world order.

In the aftermath of Kalki's return, people will live in peace and harmony. There will be no more need for religion as everyone will be united by common goals and philosophy. It is said that after this event, even the gods will abandon their heavens and come down to Earth.

Kalki will come when humanity is at its worst and needs him the most. However, he won't stop there - he will also clean up corruption in government institutions and police forces worldwide.

In addition, it's been suggested that he will also banish poverty, famine, war, disease, and injustice from the earth.
​

Again close, but still lots of differences. The main one being that Kalki doesn't get thrown in jail.

There could be allusions to that to that in Hinduism. We have to read scriptures completely. But they are not explicit.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Where does it say the Gospels and the rest of the NT were sealed? Are you saying that because something in Daniel got sealed, everything in the Bible and NT got sealed? I don't believe that. Although, maybe wrong, I still think the gospel writers were telling the story as if that is exactly what happened... that after Jesus died, he came back to life. Nothing wrong with that. Why doubt it? An all-powerful God that created people out of dirt, surely he could re-animate dead tissue. Or, they were making things up to embellish the story to make Jesus a God.

I'm okay with either one of those. The Baha'i interpretation just doesn't work for me. Mainly because I don't think the authors ever intended the resurrection story to be symbolic. And, unfortunately that makes Abdul Baha' and the Baha'i interpretation wrong. I know for Baha'is that can't be, but don't see any indications that the story was meant to be symbolic.

What other Book could he mean is sealed if it is not Book of God?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That is assuming the Baha'i definition of God is correct. Some religions believe in reincarnation, some in a resurrection. So, in other religions, God did have a different plan. Why is the Baha'i Faith the one that is true? Baha'is have to come up with explanations and interpretation that make the other religions correct in some things and false in others.

Then... if this spiritual world is better, then why did God make this one worse? Only to test people? But how aware are people of their soul? I'm sure some people only know their physical selves. They don't believe or have any concept of a soul. They make their decisions, right or wrong, by their physical needs. Then what? God is going to punish that soul of the human? Why? What did the soul do? It was a captive in a human body that had a brain that didn't believe in spiritual things. Unless you think the person's soul didn't believe?

Creation is in stages.
We were once in the world of womb. Then we came to this world, and after here we live in other worlds. Each world have its own purpose.