Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[TransmutingSoul]

So, the real Baha'i message is that it is too late, the judgement, the near destruction of the planet and all people is under way. Because a few leaders rejected Baha'u'llah? So, plan B is in effect. Wars and disaster until, on their own free will, the people of the world submit to God. In the meantime, Baha'is are working on learning how to rule, I mean, govern the world under God's laws. But first, the people will put together a secular world government. And that won't become corrupt and force people into submission?

It is never to late for us to change CG. We all have that chance.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There's a big continuum between those that choose extreme light (religion) and extreme darkness (just being no good, evil people). Most of us are in between somewhere, not too good but not too bad. What sucks is when religious people act as if they are good but aren't. Not very many people are going to complain if religious people just lived peaceful, loving, kind and all that good stuff kind of lives. But so many of them, because their religion tells them to, have to go out and preach the word to others.

It has been offered many times that a person is defined by the light that shines from them.

A Baha'i just means follower of the Glory of God, they are also defined by the light that shines from them.

Let's all be lovers of the light from no matter where it shines.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

It means that there is no good reason to believe they exist. They may have or may not. Or they could be a merging of true and false stories

Yeah, either story. One has a worldwide flood and the other has Noah saying follow God but gets rejected. The flood one obviously is a much better fictional story.

 

[CG Didymus]

For me there is good reason to believe they lived before, because I believe in Baha'u'llah. Baha'u'llah confirmed them.
And there is reason I believe in Baha'u'llah is because I investigated His history and Writings and character, and all together convinced me.
We don't know much about Noah or even Jesus through history. But we do know about Baha'u'llah, because He was in the 19th century.

if we were to only decide on that through history, then there was no way to know if they existed or not.

And does the NT "confirm" the flood version?

Matt 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.…​

Then the Quran still has a flood, but things are different than the Bible version. So, why doesn't Baha'u'llah have a flood?

Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted His people and summoned them to the haven of security and peace. None, however, heeded His call. Each day they inflicted on His blessed person such pain and suffering that no one believed He could survive. How frequently they denied Him, how malevolently they hinted their suspicion against Him! Thus it hath been revealed: “And as often as a company of His people passed by Him, they derided Him. To them He said: ‘Though ye scoff at us now, we will scoff at you hereafter even as ye scoff at us. In the end ye shall know.’”3 Long afterward, He several times promised victory to His companions and fixed the hour thereof. But when the hour struck, the divine promise was not fulfilled. This caused a few among the small number of His followers to turn away from Him, and to this testify the records of the best-known books. These you must certainly have perused; if not, undoubtedly you will. Finally, as stated in books and traditions, there remained with Him only forty or seventy-two of His followers. At last from the depth of His being He cried aloud: “Lord! Leave not upon the land a single dweller from among the unbelievers.”4​

Sorry, too easily just made up. If I'm going to go with any religious myth, it will be the flood. Much more dramatic. Like how you going to make a movie about Noah and not have a flood? Oh, what about the Nephilim? Any mention of them?

 

[Aupmanyav]

A good example is that the world of mankind no longer tolerates tyrants and the domination of totalitarian governments and religious orthodoxy over the rights of the individual. This is a vast change from 19 century views where religious orthodoxy held captive the minds of mankind and totalitarian governments were in power.
The Nation of India I notice has not yet made that choice, I hope it will join in.

Well Putin is there, XI is there, Iran is there, Myanmar is there, Kim is there and there are perhaps many others in Africa and middle-east.
World changes all the time, India also is changing. It has complete equality of gender; men, women or LGBTQ. Very soon we will have a uniform civil code.
But for what reason the change should be credited to that uneducated 19th Century Iranian? The change is like evolution. It happens naturally.

@TransmutingSoul said: "If you choose not to pursue, that is your choice, why ask more questions?
I would offer that the key about faith, it is only an individual that can pursue it."

Aup.: If there was an iota of evidence, I would have pursued it further. I would not search for a lake on Moon or Mars. What would faith do if there is no evidence? You want people to believe in fiction and fairy tales?

 

[Aupmanyav]

@Trailblazer said: "The Old World Order is collapsing and it is worse than ever, that is the point."

Aup.: What exactly is the point?: World order always changes. First there were Iranians, then Greeks, then Romans, then Christians, then Muslims, then the British and French, Germans, Japanese, then USA, then Russia, now China too. What is new in change of world order?

@TransmutingSoul said: "A Baha'i just means follower of the Glory of God, they are also defined by the light that shines from them."

Aup.: I understand. That "Holier than Thou" shine.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

And does the NT "confirm" the flood version?

Matt 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.…​

Then the Quran still has a flood, but things are different than the Bible version. So, why doesn't Baha'u'llah have a flood?

Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted His people and summoned them to the haven of security and peace. None, however, heeded His call. Each day they inflicted on His blessed person such pain and suffering that no one believed He could survive. How frequently they denied Him, how malevolently they hinted their suspicion against Him! Thus it hath been revealed: “And as often as a company of His people passed by Him, they derided Him. To them He said: ‘Though ye scoff at us now, we will scoff at you hereafter even as ye scoff at us. In the end ye shall know.’”3 Long afterward, He several times promised victory to His companions and fixed the hour thereof. But when the hour struck, the divine promise was not fulfilled. This caused a few among the small number of His followers to turn away from Him, and to this testify the records of the best-known books. These you must certainly have perused; if not, undoubtedly you will. Finally, as stated in books and traditions, there remained with Him only forty or seventy-two of His followers. At last from the depth of His being He cried aloud: “Lord! Leave not upon the land a single dweller from among the unbelievers.”4​

Sorry, too easily just made up. If I'm going to go with any religious myth, it will be the flood. Much more dramatic. Like how you going to make a movie about Noah and not have a flood? Oh, what about the Nephilim? Any mention of them?

Yes, the bolded part, is an allusion to punishment that was sent to them, and killed all of the unbelievers.

 

[ppp]

You know I was going to Baha'i meeting and conferences when I was in college. So, because of them I majored in Sociology with a lot of courses in Cultural Anthropology and minored in religion. Then I quit going to Baha'i meetings and dropped out of Grad school to go play beach volley and work in construction.

I know, you're probably thinking, "Wow, he is more wise than I thought." Yes, yes I know. Going from learning about a religion that is trying to change the world and bring peace to partying at the beach every day.

That is absolutely what I am thinking. I would sit on the beach with you dinking beach drinks and playing volley ball any day. Any time.

 

[ppp]

For me

I am not relly interested in for me's. There are plenty of people who say that "for me" white people are better than black people. Or men are better than women. 'For me' sucks as a standard for determining truth.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is absolutely what I am thinking. I would sit on the beach with you dinking beach drinks and playing volley ball any day. Any time.

I am not relly interested in for me's. There are plenty of people who say that "for me" white people are better than black people. Or men are better than women. 'For me' sucks as a standard for determining thurth.

The hardest challenges, are the easiest to quit on.

God has always given us our hardest challenges.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, the bolded part, is an allusion to punishment that was sent to them, and killed all of the unbelievers.

Then is that a real, historical event? If so, then God did intervene and killed all the unbelievers. So, that means at one time there were only believers left on Earth? Yeah, right. Baha'is are the ones that are supposed to support religious beliefs that need to be backed up by science otherwise they become superstitions.

 

[KWED]

I wouldn't mix mental health with cognitive or logic.
It seemed to me you said, that because she went to psychiatrist, it means her belief in Bahaullah is false.

Then you are mistaken.
People's belief that Bahaullah communicated with a god is almost certainly false because firstly there is no evidence any kind of god even exists, and secondly there is nothing about his writings that could not be the product of a human brain without divine intervention.

 

[Aupmanyav]

@CG Didymus quoted: He cried aloud: “Lord! Leave not upon the land a single dweller from among the unbelievers.”
@InvestigateTruth replied: Yes, the bolded part, is an allusion to punishment that was sent to them, and killed all of the unbelievers.
@Aupmanyav noted: The loving Lord obliged by killing all unbelievers. Wonderful love.

 

[firedragon]

Then is that a real, historical event? If so, then God did intervene and killed all the unbelievers. So, that means at one time there were only believers left on Earth? Yeah, right. Baha'is are the ones that are supposed to support religious beliefs that need to be backed up by science otherwise they become superstitions.

The problem with that kind of rendition is CG, the text you quoted does not say "All the unbelievers". In this case, you had inserted the word "All" there. Do you understand?

What ever the text is, we have to understand from its particular context.

Ill give you an example.

A bunch of people killed my mother. Kill the ********.

Thats just an example. This does not mean kill all the ******** in the whole world.

Each occasion will have a particular context. Its very poor scholarship to generalise things like that so easily.

The English word Unbelievers is put there out of no choice anyway. What other single word could one use? So I would like to urge you to dig a bit deeper than that.

Hope you understand.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Then is that a real, historical event? If so, then God did intervene and killed all the unbelievers. So, that means at one time there were only believers left on Earth? Yeah, right. Baha'is are the ones that are supposed to support religious beliefs that need to be backed up by science otherwise they become superstitions.

We don't know of there was a flood.
I personally do not believe there was any flood. It is a symbolic story. But it could mean, God punished them with various afflictions, such as diseases, wars and famine. All of these difficulties is symbolically expressed as flood.
It is a direct consequence of not following guidance of God. "Death" is also a spiritual death in scriptures. So, both could have happened.
Just as we see today, how much pain and suffering is happening in the world.
If humanity had accepted unity of mankind, and followed Baha'u'llah's guidance did we have these issues today?
It is not just the matter of believing in existence of a God. It is about the need of humanity to follow guidance of God, that comes for a specific time. Each age has its own conditions, and therefore a new set of Laws are required to cure the problems of the age. Bahais believe, in our Time, that guidance came from Baha'u'llah.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Then you are mistaken.
People's belief that Bahaullah communicated with a god is almost certainly false because firstly there is no evidence any kind of god even exists, and secondly there is nothing about his writings that could not be the product of a human brain without divine intervention.

Well, I see you probably want to see a miracle to believe. Well, sorry, I don't have what you look for.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

@CG Didymus quoted: He cried aloud: “Lord! Leave not upon the land a single dweller from among the unbelievers.”
@InvestigateTruth replied: Yes, the bolded part, is an allusion to punishment that was sent to them, and killed all of the unbelievers.
@Aupmanyav noted: The loving Lord obliged by killing all unbelievers. Wonderful love.

We are creations of God. I believe He does not want His creations be misguided, and only materialistic and worldly. He wants His creation be true human beings, spiritual, bright and like angels. So, if He has to destroy it, and start it over again, He can.

 

[ppp]

We are creations of God. I believe He does not want His creations be misguided, and only materialistic and worldly. He wants His creation be true human beings, spiritual, bright and like angels. So, if He has to destroy it, and start it over again, He can.

Rather lacking in empathy or compassion. Not the best qualities for a parent. But even setting that aside, why didn't he just do it right the first time?

 

[KWED]

The problem with that kind of rendition is CG, the text you quoted does not say "All the unbelievers". In this case, you had inserted the word "All" there. Do you understand?

What ever the text is, we have to understand from its particular context.

Ill give you an example.

A bunch of people killed my mother. Kill the ********.

Thats just an example. This does not mean kill all the ******** in the whole world.

Each occasion will have a particular context. Its very poor scholarship to generalise things like that so easily.

The English word Unbelievers is put there out of no choice anyway. What other single word could one use? So I would like to urge you to dig a bit deeper than that.

Hope you understand.

OK. So you object to killing all unbelievers at once, but you're fine with killing selected groups of unbelievers.
Fair enough.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Rather lacking in empathy or compassion. Not the best qualities for a parent. But even setting that aside, why didn't he just do it right the first time?

Each person dies anyways. No body lives for ever.
But if this humanity generation does not become upright, God may want to replace it with a better humanity in the future.

“Seest thou not that Allah created the heavens and the earth in Truth? If He so will, He can remove you and put (in your place) a new Creation. Nor is that for Allah any great matter.” (Surah Ibrahim, 14/19-20)


"Thus, in another passage, He wrathfully exclaimeth: “Are We wearied out with the first creation? Yet are they in doubt with regard to a new creation"

Book of Iqan.

Jesus said when Christ returns, it will be like time of Noah. People would be ignorant, and thus flood comes.

Then when Baha'u'llah came, He announced this is the Time that Jesus had foretold before. There will be a period that ends with a great calamity. After that a new creation of humanity appears.