Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[CG Didymus]

God has never given blow for blow detail. God has always given us enough for us to embrace the warnings, by use of our own free will.

Regards Tony

People tell me that Daniel was very accurate. And some of them are Baha'is. Something about 1844.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Ive read somewhat. But I cant claim I have read and studied them all.

I find it very vague and it seems like one has to jump through a lot of hoops to paint around the bullet that is already shot.

From another perspective I consider, us that if the writers of the prophecies, are all knowing and have had a vision of what will be, the question we can ask is, why is Prophecy always written in such a manner?

Baha'u'llah offered it was not appropriate in a few ways, this is one of those ways (put in bold by me);

"The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody."

I guess when I consider this, it is because the Message was one of unity and peace and by not telling us directly of the time and events that will unfold, we still have the chance to make a choice before they unfold. That is the most logical and reasonable explanation I have.

Yet after the events, or even when we are living in the time they unfold, they appear in a greater clarity, but maybe only when we have accepted the source as divine?

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

To anyone educated and born in the 1800s, that would not have been prophecy. It would have been blindingly obvious.

Baha'u'llah had very little education. He had no direct sensual knowledge of what was going on in France.

 

[Truthseeker]

It absolutely matters. No one with any critical reasoning skills is going to take "Germany will lose some wars" as any more of a prophesy (divine or otherwise) than if I say, Germany will experience a few droughts.



Seizing control in an illegal coup with little significant support, either internal or external. The first decade I remember was the 70s and I knew that was an unstable regime before I was a teenager. To anyone educated and born in the 1800s, that would not have been prophecy. It would have been blindingly obvious.


An uncontested monarch in a stable and VERY prosperous country, separated from her enemies by water. Again, how is this prophecy?

Also remember, it is the aggregate of all prophecies that create the possibility that they are true, not any one specific one.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What are the prophecies about Russia invading Ukraine? And what is predicted to happen after that? Oh, anything about China or North Korea or Isis and the Taliban?

You will not find many direct references to national names mentioned in prophecy, though in saying that, there are is specific encouraging remarks to some nations, groups and persons and some specific warnings to other nations, groups and persons and some more overall warnings.

What has been offered, is that the American Nation will lead the push for peace. It appears a message of peace and security encourages those that pursue it.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

One cannot believe on what a charlatan or mad / psychologically disturbed person says.

How do you know that? Test it. You do not know because you have offered two possibilities.

 

[CG Didymus]

By world order I presume it is meant "the main political powers in control".
This has a habit of change and has been changing regularly since before Baha'u'llah came.

I have heard from a few Christian that they believe a world government will be established but by a false prophet. Are you familiar with any of those interpretations?

 

[Brian2]

Interestingly, there are Christains that see a world government as the Anti Christ. So there is also prophecy in the Bible about this, with far less detail.

A World Government has not yet happened, but the foundations have been considered in both the League of Nations and then the United Nations.

In the formation of the League of Nations, many leaders were well aware of what Abdul'baha had offered as to what was needed to obtain peace.

Regards Tony

I suppose a world Government of some sort would be Anti Christ only in as much as what it did and said was anti Christ. Some Christians do seem to be against the whole concept of a world Government.
In a way this is understandable however since God has created the different nations and given them autonomy. (not that what God originally created still remains today of course) So if a world Government meant getting rid of the existing national powers, that does seem to go against what the Bible teaches as right and also what it teaches as what will happen.
I doubt that any world Governing body is going to extinguish the nations as they are, just unite more for the common good of all people, which is always going to be a contentious issue as to what is good for all people.
But any world Government with supreme power is prone of course to going too far and ending up as supremely corrupt and wanting power and control for the sake of power.
It is interesting how dictator type Governments end up corrupt and controlling for the sake of control and for the sake of the ideas of a few, who are usually were wrong but seem capable of being very cruel to achieve the fulfilment of their dreams.

 

[Truthseeker]

How the heck am I supposed to know if it is possible? It may be impossible. Right?

You investigate further.

 

[CG Didymus]

You will not find many direct references to national names mentioned in prophecy, though in saying that, there are is specific encouraging remarks to some nations, groups and persons and some specific warnings to other nations, groups and persons and some more overall warnings.

What has been offered, is that the American Nation will lead the push for peace. It appears a message of peace and security encourages those that pursue it.

Regards Tony

It might have been from pilgrim notes, but wasn't a nuclear war predicted? I think the wording was that some cities would be "vaporized."

 

[Truthseeker]

What evidence do you have to offer for them? What if your faith is nothing other than being completely absurd? Faith is not a substitute for truth.

If you investigate and find evidence for a Prophet, it can lend credibility to what He says. I know you won't investigate.

 

[Truthseeker]

Is there any reason to believe that? League of Nations and United Nations have proved to be utter failures. Even UK has left European Union and some have not even joined it.There. The topic and its 92 posts are just an exercise in futility, useless. Why do people create such silly topics?

You have to look at all the prophecies, but this one was not prophesized in precision. None of them were. It is the aggregate of all the prophecies if one investigates that may cause one to investigate further. Prophecies were never meant to be the best evidence of a Prophet.

 

[Truthseeker]

All of what you call prophets have defined then in directly conflicting ways. That is why there are conflicting religions

The prophets revealed equity and justice according to the times somewhat but with an underlying unity with the other prophets.

 

[firedragon]

From another perspective I consider, us that if the writers of the prophecies, are all knowing and have had a vision of what will be, the question we can ask is, why is Prophecy always written in such a manner?

Baha'u'llah offered it was not appropriate in a few ways, this is one of those ways (put in bold by me);

"The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody."

I guess when I consider this, it is because the Message was one of unity and peace and by not telling us directly of the time and events that will unfold, we still have the chance to make a choice before they unfold. That is the most logical and reasonable explanation I have.

Yet after the events, or even when we are living in the time they unfold, they appear in a greater clarity, but maybe only when we have accepted the source as divine?

Regards Tony

I guess your position as a believer may give you this platform. I am not a believer. Thus it maybe unfair for me to make skeptical remarks.

Thus, with all due respect, I withdraw from this conversation. Hope you understand.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It might have been from pilgrim notes, but wasn't a nuclear war predicted? I think the wording was that some cities would be "vaporized."

Pilgrim notes were mainly personal recollections of what was said at dinner talks. They were not offered in an official capacity. These talks are reflected in official Writings by shoghi Effendi.

Look up the Citadel of Faith by Shoghi Effendi, it is available to view online and read the section of "America passing through crisis".

Bahá'í Reference Library - Citadel of Faith

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I guess your position as a believer may give you this platform. I am not a believer. Thus it maybe unfair for me to make skeptical remarks.

Thus, with all due respect, I withdraw from this conversation. Hope you understand.

Yes I understand. Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

How do you know that? Test it. You do not know because you have offered two possibilities.

Tell me. What should I test?

If you investigate and find evidence for a Prophet, it can lend credibility to what He says.

I have investigated and found none. I did not even find any evidence of a God who could have sent them. Can you prove otherwise?

You have to look at all the prophecies, but this one was not prophesized in precision. None of them were. It is the aggregate of all the prophecies if one investigates that may cause one to investigate further. Prophecies were never meant to be the best evidence of a Prophet.

Then what are you telling me to test? If the parts are not true, then the whole also is not true. It is falsehood and snake-oil selling.

.. section of "America passing through crisis".

Which nation is not passing through a crisis? Every nation has one crisis or another. Life itself is a crisis, from one to another.

 

[firedragon]

I have investigated and found none.

What have you investigated Aup?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true? In the latter half of the 19th century, Baha’u’llah prophesied that what we are seeing now would take place. I believe that humans will build the new world order with the assistance of God and what was revealed by Baha’u’llah. “Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”

Is that offered as evidence of "things unseen"? Are you suggesting that that is evidence of a prescient deity speaking through a man? To do that, a prophecy would need to be high quality. Among the qualities of high quality prophecy are specificity and that they predict unexpected things. This meets neither.

That is not prophecy. That is stating a known material phenomenon.

All predictions are prophecies. They are synonyms. The prophecy of the sun rising in the morning is low quality because it predicts something expected, like prophecies that the way the world is organized will change as it has throughout human history.

When an entity with knowledge of the future wants to make a convincing prediction, it'll need to be at least as good as the one made in the movie "Frequency, " when Dennis Quaid's character's son, who is communicating to his father by ham radio from his father future, wants to convince his father that it is really his son speaking to him in 1969 from the year 1998. The son tells his father the outcome of game five of the 1969 World Series while the father is watching it live in a bar :

"Well, game five was the big one. It turned in the bottom of the 6th. We were down 3-0. Cleon Jones gets hit on the foot - left a scuffmark on the ball. Clendenon comes up. The count goes to 2 and 2. High fastball. He nailed it. Weis slammed a solo shot in the 7th to tie. Jones and Swoboda scored in the 8th. We won, Pop."

Once I had ruled out that I was watching a taped delay of the game, I would have to conclude that this source knew the future in detail before it occurred because of its specificity and unlikelihood. That is high quality prophecy because it is specific and unexpected. Predicting the sun will rise is low quality because, though specific - we can predict the time and the direction in which the sun will appear - it isn't unexpected. The predictions given above are neither specific nor unexpected.

But notice that science makes predictions that are specific, unexpected, and then confirmed, such as the bending of light Einstein predicted as it grazed just past the limb of the sun, or the finding of the Higgs particle at the specific energy predicted. These are high quality prophecies that exceed those in holy books, but are still not evidence of divine prescience.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What have you investigated Aup?

The so-called Prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / Mahdis. There are many false gurus in Hinduism also, some are now enjoying Government hospitality in jails.