Are Gun-Owners Delusional, Dishonest, Indifferent or Just Ignorant of the Evidence?

[Mister Emu]

Yes, I did. See the OP. You haven't said anything different than did those answering the Pew survey who said their primary reason for having a gun is for "protection".

For now, I'm not going to argue against the idea that my purpose has no significant difference to the response to the Pew survey; should you attempt to attribute to me some nonsense that I never proposed based on said survey response I will address the difference.

No, you haven't, you've shown a contradiction between owning a gun and a home being statistically more likely to be safer. You have to show a contradiction between owning a gun and the capacity to defend against a violent assault. Good luck.

You only linked to an abstract

It would be a violation of copyright law to produce the whole text for you.

As for the CDC, there is a little "+" under the authors which gives: "National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA, USA."

In the abstract the authors do not even defend the findings

When do abstracts "defend" the findings? They give a broad overview of the study.

Hemenway provides a very informative critique of a Kleck and Gertz study that produced findings of similar numbers

I already addressed the unreliability of the Kleck and Gertz study, which gave a number in the millions, I believe somewhere around 2.5. That is an absurd number of defensive gun uses.

 

[Tiapan]

Americans are unique in the western world they still have the death penalty and are a wash with lethal weapons. No simple answer, as paranoid rednecks expect the conspiracies of secret government agendas to be true and must defend themselves like John Wayne and Davy Crocket, answering all problems with a lump of lead. They just seem to lack intellect. My suggestion is don't fight it join it. Issue 9mm Baretta automatics to all primary school children but restrict machine guns, hand grenades and RPGs to the more mature High school students. There should be razor wire around all schools and sandbags around all class rooms. The alternative, to hand in high powered automatic and semiautomatic assault weapons that are not actually being used in schools should be handed in and destroyed is just not american. I am keeping score killers 100s students 0, the price of freedom, give every child a weapon and let them look after themselves. Can you yanks beat 17 dead in 3 minutes maybe 20 in 2 mins next time, that would be neat shooting. Can we put bets on it like Romans at the gladiator games. I live in Australia where we went the other extreme and cleared guns out of australia. While USA is very pro gun and Australia at the other end of the spectrum is anti gun. Surely there is middle ground that is balanced as is the case in 90% of the advanced western world.


Cheers

 

[esmith]

I could say that the anti-gun crowd are delusional, dishonest, indifferent, and lack the intelligence to discuss firearms, but I won't because that would be detrimental to the debate. Of course we can see that the anti-gun crowd does not adhere to that type of personal integrity.

 

[Altfish]

Mrs Betty Bowers seems to have the NRA's arguments sussed...

 

[Nous]

No, you haven't, you've shown a contradiction between owning a gun and a home being statistically more likely to be safer.

The contradiction that you haven't accounted for or even addressed is clearly stated in the OP:

So how does one account for the contradiction between the primary reason that the majority of gun-owners assert for owning a gun and the findings showing that guns in the home increase the risk of death or injury to a family member or acquaintance while providing no significant protection to persons in the home, and the defensive use of guns outside of the home is extremely rare and more often results in injury to the victim than simply running away, hiding, and calling the police?​

It would be a violation of copyright law to produce the whole text for you.

As for the CDC, there is a little "+" under the authors which gives: "National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA, USA."

Did you read the paper whose abstract you linked to?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

The contradiction that you haven't accounted for or even addressed is clearly stated in the OP:

So how does one account for the contradiction between the primary reason that the majority of gun-owners assert for owning a gun and the findings showing that guns in the home increase the risk of death or injury to a family member or acquaintance while providing no significant protection to persons in the home, and the defensive use of guns outside of the home is extremely rare and more often results in injury to the victim than simply running away, hiding, and calling the police?​

Did you read the paper whose abstract you linked to?

Good luck

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I could say that the anti-gun crowd are delusional, dishonest, indifferent, and lack the intelligence to discuss firearms, but I won't because that would be detrimental to the debate. Of course we can see that the anti-gun crowd does not adhere to that type of personal integrity.

Do you have any specifics to back up your complaint? Or are you just poisoning the well with strawmen?

 

[esmith]

Do you have any specifics to back up your complaint? Or are you just poisoning the well with strawmen?

yeah,many post on this forum, the blathering of no-nothing politicians, media hacks, hollywood dunderheads just to mention a few.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

yeah,many post on this forum, the blathering of no-nothing politicians, media hacks, hollywood dunderheads just to mention a few.

For example?

 

[Nous]

Good luck

Thank you. Yes, luck is what I need here.

 

[Nous]

I could say that the anti-gun crowd are delusional, dishonest, indifferent, and lack the intelligence to discuss firearms

But such a claim wouldn't have any basis in fact.

You didn't address the question the OP asked, did you?

 

[esmith]

For example?

Take your pick of those that have a negative slant to the 2nd Amendment

 

[esmith]

But such a claim wouldn't have any basis in fact.

You didn't address the question the OP asked, did you?

I answered in the only way I could and stay within the guidelines set down in this forum.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Take your pick of those that have a negative slant to the 2nd Amendment

So no examples. Shocking.

 

[esmith]

So no examples. Shocking.

Happy you feel that way that was my intention. Just as those of you that present false/misleading data to attempt to prove your point. I know example: Ok
The false data about defensive gun use.
Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Happy you feel that way that was my intention. Just as those of you that present false/misleading data to attempt to prove your point. I know example: Ok
The false data about defensive gun use.
Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth

Uh-huh. Any primary examples?

 

[esmith]

Uh-huh. Any primary examples?

Why, you and others will not accept them so I'm going to stop wasting my time with those that have no understanding about the myriad number of uses and activities involving firearms, and this is directed to many on this forum that have little or no knowledge about firearms or the Federal laws regulating them.

From now on all I will address will be the current laws governing the purchase, selling, and use of firearms. It is senseless to attempt to anything else with those that are the sheeple of the anti-gun no-nothings.

 

[Nous]

You didn't address the question the OP asked, did you?

I answered in the only way I could and stay within the guidelines set down in this forum.

Other people were able to answer the OP question while staying "within the guidelines set down in this forum."

 

[Shaul]

 

[Mister Emu]

guns in the home increase the risk of death or injury to a family member or acquaintance while providing no significant protection to persons in the home, and the defensive use of guns outside of the home is extremely rare and more often results in injury to the victim than simply running away, hiding, and calling the police

I would greatly appreciate you laying out how those points, granted for sake of argument, prevent me from using my gun to defend my home in the case of assault upon it, otherwise known as showing the contradiction between my purpose (which you have stated is not substantively different than the poll respondents) and the facts.