Are Jehovah's Witnesses False Prophets?

[sojourner]

because of this warning:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness

Jesus is speaking about christians here. He is speaking about those who 'knew' him, but who failed to be found approved by Jesus. Not all forms of christianity is approved, we should never be blaze about that. If you care about your life and if you love God, you should want to be sure that you dont find yourself among one of these groups whom Jesus said 'he never knew'

You understand, of course, that Jesus wasn't talking about denominations, right? This teaching has nothing to do with orthodoxy. It has everything to do with one's heart being in the right place.

 

[sojourner]

The only ones who were authorized were Jesus 12 apostles. They then laid down Jesus teachings in the Greek scriptures which is why the Greek scriptures are the only authorized avenue for Christian teachings.

No, they didn't. The gospels weren't written by any of the 12. They are too late and too literate. In fact, the gospels were possibly told orally for a while before being written down.

 

[sojourner]

I am sure you are confusing :"for" and "about". Huge difference. Should I add many words?

Right! Just because someone quotes someone else doesn't automatically mean that the person quoting is "authorized" to speak for someone else.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

At the time this was written, it was unknown who that 'faithful' group would prove to be. But Jesus words indicate that there WOULD be a group of faithful christians fulfilling their duty. And if thats the case, then we as individuals would need to find that group and join them in doing Gods will.

Maybe that group doesn't exist yet. Maybe you need to start such a group.

 

[sojourner]

you need to find christians who apply the bible and who are carrying out the Will of God today.
What is the Will of God?

1Tim 2:3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth

The truth is found in Gods word. You simply need to use the bible as your measuring tool to see who is out there busy with the work of making known accurate knowledge and living in harmony with it.

John 13:35 --
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.

Notice, it doesn't say, "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples if you read the bible correctly."

 

[savagewind]

Right! Just because someone quotes someone else doesn't automatically mean that the person quoting is "authorized" to speak for someone else.

I am sure that what the Jehovah's Witnesses do which is Bible study, prayer, meetings and evangelizing they do for the advantage of 'Jehovah'. Everything they do is in the Name of YHVH who they call 'Jehovah'. Many Jehovah's Witnesses are absolutely sure that what they do is "authorized" by YHVH. You don't believe it but they do.

 

[Sha'irullah]

There is a strong Jehovah Witnesses presence in my area and I have decided to create a video about some of their propaganda pamphlets. I find them quite offensive as honestly

 

[Pegg]

No, they didn't. The gospels weren't written by any of the 12. They are too late and too literate. In fact, the gospels were possibly told orally for a while before being written down.

the gospels were written before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70CE. The book of Acts, which was the 2nd book by the writer of the Gospel of Luke, was written before that time too as is evidenced by the fact that it ends with Pauls imprisonment in Rome and doesnt mention his execution.
The gospel of John specifically ends with the words that the person writing was the same disciple 'whom Jesus used to love' and the one who Jesus leaned to when he said someone will betray him. That person was John.

If you so easily discredit the gospels, then why should you accept ANY of the Greek scriptures?

 

[Pegg]

And those 12 selected, through discernment and prayer, replacements and additions to their number as they became unable and the church grew too large for 12 to manage. This tradition eventually became the orthodox church, which later divided into East and West. Those churches who maintain the Apostolic Succession are they that have "kept the faith" through the appointment of such servants called by God and affirmed by the church.

Yet, these are the ones you decry as "unbiblical."

Wazzup with that??

one only needs to compare their teachings and practices with the greek scriptures to see they have not stuck to Jesus instructions. The fact that there is a laity/clergy distinction is one very noticeable difference. In the first century congregation, every member were preachers and teachers

that is not the case in the major denominations of the orthodox branches of Christianity today. Jesus said his disciples were all 'one' and all 'united' and he wanted them to stay that way. He also said that the apostles were to be ministers and not 'lord it over the flock'... according to some orthordox priests, the lay people should not read the bible and they should not question the priest...that is a form of 'lording it over' the flock.

 

[Pegg]

The problem is this: Who appointed JWs to be the determiners of what it means to "live in accord with Jesus' teachings?" To claim that authority is to claim "mouthpiece status," I believe, illicitly.

It assumes an exclusivity of discernment, which, as I pointed out in another thread, is a huge bone of contention for me with JW doctrine.

we dont have doctrines

We have the bible and we try to follow it as best we can. The bible clearly states how a person should live and behave to be in harmony with Jesus and to imitate him. Jesus was a preacher, we are preachers. Jesus lived according to the moral standards of the Torah, we live according to the moral standards of the Torah. Jesus displayed Godly qualities of love,joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faith etc, and we try our best to cultivate such qualities.

the bible shows all of us what we need to do...the degree to which we put it into practice varies among different denominations. some focus on charity, others focus on obedience to law, others focus on others things. We focus on preaching the good news of the kingdom as Jesus did.

 

[savagewind]

Doctrine means a set of beliefs that are taught.

What is the definition of doctrine that Jehovah's Witnesses don't have?

 

[sojourner]

I am sure that what the Jehovah's Witnesses do which is Bible study, prayer, meetings and evangelizing they do for the advantage of 'Jehovah'. Everything they do is in the Name of YHVH who they call 'Jehovah'. Many Jehovah's Witnesses are absolutely sure that what they do is "authorized" by YHVH. You don't believe it but they do.

a prophet is not self-authorized, though. The authorization has to be recognized by the community. Thus far, no one but the JWs, themselves, seem to believe that they are "authorized."

 

[sojourner]

the gospels were written before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70CE. The book of Acts, which was the 2nd book by the writer of the Gospel of Luke, was written before that time too as is evidenced by the fact that it ends with Pauls imprisonment in Rome and doesnt mention his execution.
The gospel of John specifically ends with the words that the person writing was the same disciple 'whom Jesus used to love' and the one who Jesus leaned to when he said someone will betray him. That person was John.

If you so easily discredit the gospels, then why should you accept ANY of the Greek scriptures?

...And this is what lack-of-scholarship gets you: Misinformation about the texts you hold as sacred.

To state that the gospels are what they are, rather than what we wish them to be, does not discredit them. In fact, it gives them greater weight than if we pretended they were something other than what they are.

If you so easily discredit the scholarship that brings the Greek texts, themselves, to light, why should you accept your OWN scholarship on the matter (which is clearly inferior)?

 

[sojourner]

one only needs to compare their teachings and practices with the greek scriptures to see they have not stuck to Jesus instructions. The fact that there is a laity/clergy distinction is one very noticeable difference. In the first century congregation, every member were preachers and teachers

Again: Lack of scholarship misdirects. The first century church saw the establishment of bishops, deacons and presbyters, who clearly were set apart for ministry from the assembly-at-large. The fact that you missed this tidbit of data shows that the JWs, themselves, "have not stuck to Jesus' instructions." Even in Jesus' time, Rabbis -- teachers, and the priesthood were separate and distinct from the body of believers. The Greek texts, themselves, attest to that.

 

[sojourner]

Doctrine means a set of beliefs that are taught.

What is the definition of doctrine that Jehovah's Witnesses don't have?

This ^^^

 

[savagewind]

a prophet is not self-authorized, though. The authorization has to be recognized by the community. Thus far, no one but the JWs, themselves, seem to believe that they are "authorized."

I think I know now what you have been saying. A false prophet is someone who is believed to be true by a community but isn't true. Is that right?

 

[sojourner]

I think I know now what you have been saying. A false prophet is someone who is believed to be true by a community but isn't true. Is that right?

Correct.

Jim Jones was a false prophet. David Koresh was a false prophet.

 

[ZooGirl02]

if a religion is teaching from the bible and they stick to what the bible says, then they are speaking truth. We uphold the bible as the truth and we encourage all christians to do the same. That is why we reject the hellfire teaching, we reject the trinity teaching, we reject any doctrines which have no basis in what is actually written in the scriptures.

The Governing Body's main role is to oversee the preaching and teaching work. The publications they produce is actually produced by a 'writting committee' made up of many people. The Governing Body simply ensure that what has been expressed is in line with what the scriptures teach.

And if there wasnt a governing body overseeing all the work, then our organization today might also be fragmented and divided... but they are like the glue that holds us together and keeps us united.

I don't mean to be off topic here but there is Scriptural evidence for both the teaching of Hell and the teaching of the Trinity. I will give you one passage (made up of a couple of verses) for each doctrine.

Trinity:

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
(Matthew 28:19-20)

Hell:

And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If any one worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also shall drink the wine of God's wrath, poured unmixed into the cup of his anger, and he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
(Revelation 14:9-11)

If you want more Scriptural evidence for these teachings or others, please send me a PM and I will be more than happy to provide you with more.

 

[jeager106]

I find it less than palatable to bash Christian denominations.
I have no clue which Bible translation is the most accurate.
Do you? Please enlightend me as I seek the best "truth" I can find.
I can say that I disagree with churches passing around a basket of rattle snakes to
advocate a belief or "prove" ones faith. Seems kinda way out there to me.
Seems JW bashing is popular here, distasteful as it is. When is it going to be popular to bash 7th Day Adventists? Or.......................................

 

[savagewind]

The Watchtower teaches that all people are to listen to it or be doomed. The Watchtower is written by men who are called "the faithful and discreet slave" and who admit to being the least of Jesus' brothers per Matthew 25:32-45.

The Jehovah's Witnesses say that the faithful and discreet slave is the only entity that can interpret God's Word rightly.

The faithful and discreet slave is made up of a few of the 144,000 who are the people that Jesus brings to Heaven to rule with him for 1000 years. (A JW teaching)

I started a thread about the JW and thinking but it was removed post haste.

Here is something to think about please.

I am being told that I must learn about God and Christ from the faithful and discreet slave and only them.

Here is the question to think about.

When the last of the 144,000 have gone to Heaven who am I to listen to regarding God's will be done?