Are Jehovah's Witnesses False Prophets?

[Pegg]

I would like to say I have not called Jehovah's Witnesses false prophets. I called their claim of exclusivity false. The Governing Body is not the only ones who can know what The Word means. I do not know if they have really been sent by The True God or not. How would I know?

Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Yahweh and said, 'I will entice him.' And he said to him, By what means? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, You shall persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. 1 Kings 22:21,22

we dont claim exclusivity. We claim that people, both good and bad, will be restored to life in paradise. There they will be given the opportunity to come to know God and accept his ways. This includes people who have never known God, even those who have done terrible things in their life.

What we do claim is that the Greek scriptures lay out the way of the 'cramped and narrow road' and that only those living in accord with Jesus teachings can a person be approved by God right now. Even Jesus said that his way was the only way. We teach his way as it is defined in the scriptures so of course we believe that it is the only way to be approved by God now. In the future, after the resurrection, there will be a new set of requirements for people who are resurrected and they will have to adhere closely to those requirements....but for now, it is Jesus teachings that we must adhere closely to.

 

[savagewind]

we dont claim exclusivity. We claim that people, both good and bad, will be restored to life in paradise. There they will be given the opportunity to come to know God and accept his ways. This includes people who have never known God, even those who have done terrible things in their life.

What we do claim is that the Greek scriptures lay out the way of the 'cramped and narrow road' and that only those living in accord with Jesus teachings can a person be approved by God right now. Even Jesus said that his way was the only way. We teach his way as it is defined in the scriptures so of course we believe that it is the only way to be approved by God now. In the future, after the resurrection, there will be a new set of requirements for people who are resurrected and they will have to adhere closely to those requirements....but for now, it is Jesus teachings that we must adhere closely to.

No. I did not say you believe your group is exclusive. I said you believe the teachings you espouse are exclusive. In other words every other interpretation of scripture is false. The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the last authority of what the teachings of Jesus, Paul, John, James, Peter and so on mean. There are better views of scripture but you are not allowed to differ from your Governing Body. Do you deny it? Religions who teach differently than you, even if they also teach the gospel are called false.

 

[savagewind]

those living in accord with Jesus teachings can a person be approved by God right now

I do not deny this. But you also live in accord with Paul's teachings.

 

[Pegg]

No. I did not say you believe your group is exclusive. I said you believe the teachings you espouse are exclusive. In other words every other interpretation of scripture is false. The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the last authority of what the teachings of Jesus, Paul, John, James, Peter and so on mean. There are better views of scripture but you are not allowed to differ from your Governing Body. Do you deny it? Religions who teach differently than you, even if they also teach the gospel are called false.

if a religion is teaching from the bible and they stick to what the bible says, then they are speaking truth. We uphold the bible as the truth and we encourage all christians to do the same. That is why we reject the hellfire teaching, we reject the trinity teaching, we reject any doctrines which have no basis in what is actually written in the scriptures.

The Governing Body's main role is to oversee the preaching and teaching work. The publications they produce is actually produced by a 'writting committee' made up of many people. The Governing Body simply ensure that what has been expressed is in line with what the scriptures teach.

And if there wasnt a governing body overseeing all the work, then our organization today might also be fragmented and divided... but they are like the glue that holds us together and keeps us united.

 

[Pegg]

I do not deny this. But you also live in accord with Paul's teachings.

The Greek scriptures include Pauls Teachings. The apostles approved of Pauls teachings and Jesus himself appointed Paul as a teacher.

So why wouldnt we live in accord with Pauls teachings?

 

[savagewind]

if a religion is teaching from the bible and they stick to what the bible says, then they are speaking truth. We uphold the bible as the truth and we encourage all christians to do the same. That is why we reject the hellfire teaching, we reject the trinity teaching, we reject any doctrines which have no basis in what is actually written in the scriptures.

The Governing Body's main role is to oversee the preaching and teaching work. The publications they produce is actually produced by a 'writting committee' made up of many people. The Governing Body simply ensure that what has been expressed is in line with what the scriptures teach.

And if there wasnt a governing body overseeing all the work, then our organization today might also be fragmented and divided... but they are like the glue that holds us together and keeps us united.

You are talking about a lot of things I am not talking about. You say "The Governing Body simply ensure that what has been expressed is in line with what the scriptures teach". How do they know what scripture teaches?

An example.

They say the Christian Greek Scriptures were written for the people who are bound for Heaven. OK. I do not disagree with that. Has that teaching changed? There can be absolutely no uncleanness in Heaven. So the scriptures about not mingling with unclean persons is obviously for those who will be brought to heaven. There are few words of Jesus that condone such a practice. Actually just one scripture. (Matthew 18:15-17) “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." Did Jesus also teach not to eat with tax collectors? Are you aware that Jehovah's Witnesses call it a sin to disagree openly with the Governing Body?

Read more at Scriptures relevant to “Disfellowshipping”...Help, advice, and answers to Questions for struggling Jehovah's Witnesses and Disfellowshipped ones

 

[Pegg]

You are talking about a lot of things I am not talking about. You say "The Governing Body simply ensure that what has been expressed is in line with what the scriptures teach". How do they know what scripture teaches?

they read the bible.

An example.

They say the Christian Greek Scriptures were written for the people who are bound for Heaven. OK. I do not disagree with that. Has that teaching changed?

I've never heard this. I'm not bound for heaven and i've been taught that the scriptures apply to me as a person of the nations. I think what you may be talking about here is that some of what we find in the scriptures apply to those who are chosen for heavenly life....and some verse do apply to them alone. But if you are a person who is bound for earthly life, then there are many, if not more, scriptures which would apply to you.

Jesus said “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth." This verse obviously applies to those with the earthly hope, does it not?

Are you aware that Jehovah's Witnesses call it a sin to disagree openly with the Governing Body?

if they are teaching from the scriptures, then to reject their teaching is to reject God. Is it a sin to reject Gods teachings?

Thats for you to decide.

 

[savagewind]

they read the bible.



I've never heard this. I'm not bound for heaven and i've been taught that the scriptures apply to me as a person of the nations. I think what you may be talking about here is that some of what we find in the scriptures apply to those who are chosen for heavenly life....and some verse do apply to them alone. But if you are a person who is bound for earthly life, then there are many, if not more, scriptures which would apply to you.

Jesus said “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth." This verse obviously applies to those with the earthly hope, does it not?




if they are teaching from the scriptures, then to reject their teaching is to reject God. Is it a sin to reject Gods teachings?

Thats for you to decide.

Others who "teach from scripture" are called false by Jehovah's Witnesses. Will you please stop skirting that?
I wonder if you have read this post? http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/scriptural-debates/148817-jesus-problem-evil.html

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the weeds are people because the Bible calls them "sons". It is understood literally by you. If someone will not take it literally and they persist publicly in disagreeing they will be removed. Correct? You are not able to see it his way. Why?

 

[Pegg]

Others who "teach from scripture" are called false by Jehovah's Witnesses. Will you please stop skirting that?

if anyones teachings are not in harmony with scripture they are false teachers, absolutely. There is no skirting around on that.

What do you call it when someone teachings things contrary to scripture?

 

[savagewind]

if anyones teachings are not in harmony with scripture they are false teachers, absolutely. There is no skirting around on that.

What do you call it when someone teachings things contrary to scripture?

No! What you mean is "What do you call it when someone teachings things contrary to scripture according to our understanding of scripture." Scripture is just words. Words can be seen and understood many ways. You are putting the Governing Body in the place of JUDGE. What they say it means is what it means. But what if it means something else?

 

[Pegg]

No! What you mean is "What do you call it when someone teachings things contrary to scripture according to our understanding of scripture." Scripture is just words. Words can be seen and understood many ways. You are putting the Governing Body in the place of JUDGE. What they say it means is what it means. But what if it means something else?

the same could be said for every religious group

You as a christian still have to decide on which group are the most closely aligned with scripture....and that goes for their conduct as well, not just in what they teach. How close a christian group align themselves with Christs teachings and way of life and instructions is up to us as 'individuals' to decipher. By all means be critical, but use the bible as the basis of your criticism....use it as the measuring tool to make the determination.

Remember, we are still held accountable for whatever decision we personally make and on how thoroughly we critically analyse what is being taught and how it is being conducted.

 

[savagewind]

You as a christian still have to decide on which group are the most closely aligned with scripture.

I need not decide. Where in Jesus teaching does it say that? Why do you say I have to decide?

 

[Pegg]

I need not decide. Where in Jesus teaching does it say that? Why do you say I have to decide?

because of this warning:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness

Jesus is speaking about christians here. He is speaking about those who 'knew' him, but who failed to be found approved by Jesus. Not all forms of christianity is approved, we should never be blaze about that. If you care about your life and if you love God, you should want to be sure that you dont find yourself among one of these groups whom Jesus said 'he never knew'

 

[savagewind]

because of this warning:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness

Jesus is speaking about christians here. He is speaking about those who 'knew' him, but who failed to be found approved by Jesus. Not all forms of christianity is approved, we should never be blaze about that. If you care about your life and if you love God, you should want to be sure that you dont find yourself among one of these groups whom Jesus said 'he never knew'

You did not say I must beware of unapproved Christians. You said I must identify the true Christian group. I know why I must beware of someone who might mislead me. Why must I find a group that isn't being misled? That is how I read what you wrote.

You as a christian still have to decide on which group are the most closely aligned with scripture.

 

[Pegg]

You did not say I must beware of unapproved Christians. You said I must identify the true Christian group. I know why I must beware of someone who might mislead me. Why must I find a group that isn't being misled? That is how I read what you wrote.

because Jesus said that his disciples WOULD be doing his fathers will in the time of the end. The scriptures make it clear that the Will of God will be getting accomplished and God would be with Jesus disciples.

For that reason, Jesus said to his disciples "Who REALLY is the Faithful and Discreet Slave whom his Master APPOINTED..."

At the time this was written, it was unknown who that 'faithful' group would prove to be. But Jesus words indicate that there WOULD be a group of faithful christians fulfilling their duty. And if thats the case, then we as individuals would need to find that group and join them in doing Gods will.

 

[sojourner]

just a side point here, but does anyone realise that we have never claimed to be prophets?

probably not....carry on.

Well, there ya go! No one authorized you, and you have never claimed to be so. My point stands. JWs are not prophets, false or otherwise.

 

[sojourner]

OK. You are leaving something out. Is there such a thing as a false prophet?

Sure! Someone can be authorized to speak for God and then speak falsely.

 

[sojourner]

If Jehovah's Witnesses teach what God approves of and what God disproves of, how is that not speaking for God (which is the definition of prophet)?

Is the definition of prophet "one who speaks for God"?

How is quoting someone in the newspaper not speaking for that person? It's possible to have an opinion and broadcast it without being authorized to speak for the person.

 

[Pegg]

How is quoting someone in the newspaper not speaking for that person? It's possible to have an opinion and broadcast it without being authorized to speak for the person.

thats a good example.

The only ones who were authorized were Jesus 12 apostles. They then laid down Jesus teachings in the Greek scriptures which is why the Greek scriptures are the only authorized avenue for Christian teachings.

Those scriptures were copied and spread around to all of Jesus disciples. We are expected to use those scriptures as the basis for our teaching others and if we are doing that, then it can be said that what we teach is from an authorized source.

 

[savagewind]

How is quoting someone in the newspaper not speaking for that person? It's possible to have an opinion and broadcast it without being authorized to speak for the person.

I am sure you are confusing :"for" and "about". Huge difference. Should I add many words?