Are Jehovah's Witnesses False Prophets?

[savagewind]

then we as individuals would need to find that group and join them in doing Gods will.

we are still held accountable for whatever decision

as a christian still have to decide on which group

If Jehovah's Witnesses are not speaking for God, how can they say what I need to do to be approved by God? They say I need to know the scriptures as they teach them. Can God not teach me? Why can't I learn from Jehovah? The only thing making someone powerless is death. What are you teaching about your god?

 

[Pegg]

If Jehovah's Witnesses are not speaking for God, how can they say what I need to do to be approved by God? They say I need to know the scriptures as they teach them. Can God not teach me? Why can't I learn from Jehovah? The only thing making someone powerless is death. What are you teaching about your god?

Why can't you learn directly from Jehovah? For the same reason the Isrealites couldnt speak directly to Jehovah, but through his appointed men. Its the way God has decided to do it.

Look back and see that in every instance, God has chosen to speak to mankind through chosen individuals. Only to Noah did he give the message of the coming deluge and it was only through Noah that the people could have responded to save themselves. The Isrealites could only approach Jehovah through Moses and Aaron, later it was through the priesthood and high priests....then it was through Jesus and his chosen representatives...why do you think God has suddenly changed tactic and speaks to us individually?

 

[savagewind]

Why can't you learn directly from Jehovah? For the same reason the Isrealites couldnt speak directly to Jehovah, but through his appointed men. Its the way God has decided to do it.

Look back and see that in every instance, God has chosen to speak to mankind through chosen individuals. Only to Noah did he give the message of the coming deluge and it was only through Noah that the people could have responded to save themselves. The Isrealites could only approach Jehovah through Moses and Aaron, later it was through the priesthood and high priests....then it was through Jesus and his chosen representatives...why do you think God has suddenly changed tactic and speaks to us individually?

OK. What is a person or persons called who "God chooses to speak through to mankind"?

Edit. If I understand you correctly God is not speaking through anyone presently.

 

[savagewind]

And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Joel 2:28

What does the faithful and discreet slave say about this scripture? You say God chooses only some people. This says all people.

 

[Pegg]

OK. What is a person or persons called who "God chooses to speak through to mankind"?

Edit. If I understand you correctly God is not speaking through anyone presently.

presently he is speaking to christians through the bible

Those who turn to God and apply his word in faith, have the veil lifted from their eyes so that they can understand it.
2 Cor 3:16 But when there is a turning to Jehovah, the veil is taken away.

 

[savagewind]

presently he is speaking to christians through the bible

Those who turn to God and apply his word in faith, have the veil lifted from their eyes so that they can understand it.
2 Cor 3:16 But when there is a turning to Jehovah, the veil is taken away.

So you say I must find the right group. The right one is The Bible. Correct?

 

[Pegg]

And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Joel 2:28

What does the faithful and discreet slave say about this scripture? You say God chooses only some people. This says all people.

WT 2002 p15 prg4-5
Having received the holy spirit, the disciples in Jerusalem lost no time in sharing the good news of salvation with others, beginning with the crowd who had gathered that morning. Their preaching fulfilled a remarkable prophecy, recorded eight centuries earlier by Joel, the son of Pethuel: “I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will certainly prophesy. As for your old men, dreams they will dream. As for your young men, visions they will see. And even on the menservants and on the maidservants in those days I shall pour out my spirit . . . before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah.”—Joel 1:1; 2:28, 29, 31; Acts 2:17, 18, 20.
5 Did this mean that God was going to raise up a whole generation of prophets, both male and female, in the manner of David, Joel, and Deborah, and use them to foretell future events? No. Christian ‘sons and daughters, menservants and maidservants’ would prophesy in the sense that they would be impelled by Jehovah’s spirit to declare “the magnificent things” that Jehovah had done and would still do. So they would serve as spokesmen for the Most High



We dont need new prophets unless something new needs to be revealed. But the bible reveals everything that is going to be happening for more then 1,000 years into the future. There will be no need for new prophets to arise at the end of the 1,000 years either....at the end of the 1,000 years, mankind will be reunited with God once again and then we WILL be able to speak directly to God in the way that Adam did...we wont need an intermediary as we currently do.

 

[savagewind]

I can't believe it was the early disciples of 'Jesus' Joel is talking about. Why? Because of the next two verses.

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

 

[Pegg]

So you say I must find the right group. The right one is The Bible. Correct?

you need to find christians who apply the bible and who are carrying out the Will of God today.
What is the Will of God?

1Tim 2:3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth

The truth is found in Gods word. You simply need to use the bible as your measuring tool to see who is out there busy with the work of making known accurate knowledge and living in harmony with it.

 

[Pegg]

I can't believe it was the early disciples of 'Jesus' Joel is talking about. Why? Because of the next two verses.

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

the point is that being one of those 'prophets' involved speaking about God and his kingdom to others. It had nothing to do with having a direct line of communication with God himself. In 36CE when the holy spirit was poured out on those 130 disciples, what did the holy spirit motivate them to do?

it motivated them to preach about Gods kingdom. And that is exactly what Jesus said the holy spirit would do for them...
“You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth.” Acts 1:8

Think carefully about this scripture. This scripture is the key to understanding the role that the holy spirit is playing today in the lives of true Christians. What will the spirit move christians to do? What did it move the disciples in 36ce to do?

 

[savagewind]

you need to find christians who apply the bible and who are carrying out the Will of God today.
What is the Will of God?

1Tim 2:3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth

The truth is found in Gods word. You simply need to use the bible as your measuring tool to see who is out there busy with the work of making known accurate knowledge and living in harmony with it.

You keep saying I must agree that you have chosen righteousness in order for me to be saved.

 

[Pegg]

You keep saying I must agree that you have chosen righteousness in order for me to be saved.

i dont think i said that...actually i dont understand your question.

In order for 'you' to be saved it is YOU who needs to choose righteousness... i cant save you... only God can do that and he will decide if you are righteous, not me or anybody else.

 

[savagewind]

i dont think i said that...actually i dont understand your question.

In order for 'you' to be saved it is YOU who needs to choose righteousness... i cant save you... only God can do that and he will decide if you are righteous, not me or anybody else.

You say I must find the group who is righteous that I might be righteous. Does it only sound like that to me? You have repeated it several times I think. I have highlighted the places where I heard you say it in red.

Also, when I asked my husband if he thinks what you teach is that I must join you to be saved he said "yes, a Jehovah's Witness actually said that to me". To be saved one must become a Jehovah's Witness. Eventually. It is what one hears at every convention of Jehovah's Witnesses. He said "why would they spend their life trying to convert people if they didn't believe theirs was the only way?"

 

[Pegg]

You say I must find the group who is righteous that I might be righteous. Does it only sound like that to me? You have repeated it several times I think. I have highlighted the places where I heard you say it in red.

i think i said 'faithful' to Gods word (the bible) and who apply it.

Also, when I asked my husband if he thinks what you teach is that I must join you to be saved he said "yes, a Jehovah's Witness actually said that to me". To be saved one must become a Jehovah's Witness. Eventually. It is what one hears at every convention of Jehovah's Witnesses. He said "why would they spend their life trying to convert people if they didn't believe theirs was the only way?"

there is only one 'way' and Jesus said it could only be obtained through him. If you can find another group who are doing what the bible says, then maybe you should consider joining them because im sure they would be approved by God. I've found the group i believe are doing what is required by the scriptures and my conscience is clear on that.

 

[savagewind]

i think i said 'faithful' to Gods word (the bible) and who apply it.




there is only one 'way' and Jesus said it could only be obtained through him. If you can find another group who are doing what the bible says, then maybe you should consider joining them because im sure they would be approved by God. I've found the group i believe are doing what is required by the scriptures and my conscience is clear on that.

Your not answering my query. WHY must I "join" a group to be saved? The lost sheep had no group. It was saved.

 

[Pegg]

Your not answering my query. WHY must I "join" a group to be saved? The lost sheep had no group. It was saved.

it comes down to Jesus instructions

He wanted his disciples to stick together, to support one another, to work together to accomplish his fathers will.

Matthew 18:20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.”

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, 25 not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near.

It would be very difficult to be a christian and actually do Gods will alone...very difficult indeed.

 

[savagewind]

Sorry. I think you cannot rightly use Matthew 18:20 to prove we must "stick" together. I do not need to join a group to gather with other disciples of Yehoshua.
And

I have published what I believe Hebrews 18:29 really means but no one believes me.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus appointed his 12 apostles to lay down the basis for his teachings. We have those teaching in the form of the Christian Greek Scriptures. No one needs to add to them, no new prophets need to come and reveal anything new because everything we need to know has been laid down in the Greek scriptures.

As christians, we are all expected to use those scriptures as the basis for our beliefs and teachings. Jesus said he will appoint a 'faithful' slave to be his steward. What would it require to be appointed by Jesus? Faithfulness is a requirement...faithfulness to the teachings of Jesus apostles as laid down in the Greek scriptures is a pre-requisite.

Jesus has been searching through all christian groups to see who has remained faithful to his teachings. If you are using the bible, it is not hard to determine who is sticking close to the it...in the end Jesus is the judge of that and he will choose who he will choose. The scriptures say he is going to choose somebody... we all have a responsiblity to do the same ourselves and hope that we have made the right choice.

And those 12 selected, through discernment and prayer, replacements and additions to their number as they became unable and the church grew too large for 12 to manage. This tradition eventually became the orthodox church, which later divided into East and West. Those churches who maintain the Apostolic Succession are they that have "kept the faith" through the appointment of such servants called by God and affirmed by the church.

Yet, these are the ones you decry as "unbiblical."

Wazzup with that??

 

[sojourner]

we dont claim exclusivity. We claim that people, both good and bad, will be restored to life in paradise. There they will be given the opportunity to come to know God and accept his ways. This includes people who have never known God, even those who have done terrible things in their life.

What we do claim is that the Greek scriptures lay out the way of the 'cramped and narrow road' and that only those living in accord with Jesus teachings can a person be approved by God right now. Even Jesus said that his way was the only way. We teach his way as it is defined in the scriptures so of course we believe that it is the only way to be approved by God now. In the future, after the resurrection, there will be a new set of requirements for people who are resurrected and they will have to adhere closely to those requirements....but for now, it is Jesus teachings that we must adhere closely to.

The problem is this: Who appointed JWs to be the determiners of what it means to "live in accord with Jesus' teachings?" To claim that authority is to claim "mouthpiece status," I believe, illicitly.

It assumes an exclusivity of discernment, which, as I pointed out in another thread, is a huge bone of contention for me with JW doctrine.

 

[sojourner]

the same could be said for every religious group

You as a christian still have to decide on which group are the most closely aligned with scripture....and that goes for their conduct as well, not just in what they teach. How close a christian group align themselves with Christs teachings and way of life and instructions is up to us as 'individuals' to decipher. By all means be critical, but use the bible as the basis of your criticism....use it as the measuring tool to make the determination.

Remember, we are still held accountable for whatever decision we personally make and on how thoroughly we critically analyse what is being taught and how it is being conducted.

The same could not be said of mine. As Jesus teaches in Paul, we allow the tares to grow up alongside the wheat and let God sort it out on God's terms, and in God's time.

I might point out that the first Christians didn't "use the bible as the basis of their criticism," since there was no bible to be used as such. Therefore, by a strict definition, to use the bible as such is... unbiblical.