Are Muslims right about Paul?

[sojourner]

Its not the bible which has inconsistencies....its the teachings of people and of what they teach about the bible.

Mohammad rightly pointed out, for example, that the is no trinity.... God is One and that is also what the bible says. But what people teach is contrary to what the bible says. So there is nothing wrong with the bible and if Mohammad had been able to read the bible, he would have known that.

There's nothing wrong with the bible, even though it contain inconsistencies and contradictions.

 

[redpolk]

There's nothing wrong with the bible, even though it contain inconsistencies and contradictions.

So what WOULD count as something wrong with the Bible?

 

[sojourner]

So what WOULD count as something wrong with the Bible?

If it actually claimed to be something other than it is, or was dishonest in its intent, would be a great place to start.

 

[Pegg]

If it actually claimed to be something other than it is, or was dishonest in its intent, would be a great place to start.

how does it accurately foretell the future if it is merely the work of men?

 

[Simplelogic]

Thats a good point you make here. It means that no one, not even the jews are keeping the Mosaic law because its impossible to keep the law without a priesthood to administer it.

There is no temple, no priesthood, no way to make the atonement sacrifices and hence no way to fulfill the laws requirements.

Does it occur to anyone else that God has allowed the priesthood and temple to remain obsolete because he has removed the mosaic law as is stated in the Christian scriptures???

If he wanted people to follow it, then he would make it possible for people to follow it by supplying all the provisions as he did in the ancient past. No provisions, no priesthood, no temple... no requirement.

There are many verses which undo your theory there. Here is one of them:

1“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.” 2“But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness (Messiah) will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. 3“You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the LORD of hosts.
4“Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.

This is a last days prophecy of the return of Messiah. So why is God telling us to "remember the law of Moses"???

 

[sojourner]

how does it accurately foretell the future if it is merely the work of men?

Prophecy isn't about "predicting the future." And there are many prophecies that have not "come to pass."

 

[Harikrish]

Its not the bible which has inconsistencies....its the teachings of people and of what they teach about the bible.

Mohammad rightly pointed out, for example, that the is no trinity.... God is One and that is also what the bible says. But what people teach is contrary to what the bible says. So there is nothing wrong with the bible and if Mohammad had been able to read the bible, he would have known that.

Christianity is the only religion in the world that has made such a fuss over a crucified Jew. Even the Jews today think little about the incident. And the Romans have done away with this barbaric form of punishment. The Gentiles converts now make the bulk of Christians today and have displaced the Jews as the people to whom was promised the kingdom of God.

If the religion was to eventually become the religion of the Gentiles then why was a Jewish rabbi sacrificed?

Are the children of Abraham, Moses, David and the great prophets of the Jewish past to be passed over in favour of the Gentile converts. Or was this the sort of blasphemous thoughts that got Jesus crucified. It is these dangerous false prophets that God warned Moses about in Deuteronomy. And why Jesus was tried, convicted and finally put to death.

Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

 

[Pegg]

There are many verses which undo your theory there. Here is one of them:

1“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.” 2“But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness (Messiah) will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. 3“You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the LORD of hosts.
4“Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.

This is a last days prophecy of the return of Messiah. So why is God telling us to "remember the law of Moses"???

remembering the law of moses is good for us because it teaches us a lot about how God expects us to behave by clearly stating Gods standards. And by paying attention to it and remembering it, we are able to identify fulfillments of its many prophecies.

But lets be honest, Malachi does not say 'continue practicing the law' or 'remember to practice the law' or 'remember to do everything written in the law'
It just says to remember it. Have you ever thought back to remember something you did in the past...maybe a holiday you took? Remembering it does not mean go and do it all again.

 

[Pegg]

Prophecy isn't about "predicting the future." And there are many prophecies that have not "come to pass."

Prophecy is not about 'prediction', correct. People are the ones who predict things...and they most often get it wrong. But prophecy is different. It is the foretelling of future events...and only God can do that. The fact that the bible foretells future events (it doesnt predict them, there is difference) is a strong line of evidence that it is authored or inspired by God, not man.

 

[Simplelogic]

how does it accurately foretell the future if it is merely the work of men?

remembering the law of moses is good for us because it teaches us a lot about how God expects us to behave by clearly stating Gods standards. And by paying attention to it and remembering it, we are able to identify fulfillments of its many prophecies.

But lets be honest, Malachi does not say 'continue practicing the law' or 'remember to practice the law' or 'remember to do everything written in the law'
It just says to remember it. Have you ever thought back to remember something you did in the past...maybe a holiday you took? Remembering it does not mean go and do it all again.

Wow

 

[sojourner]

Prophecy is not about 'prediction', correct. People are the ones who predict things...and they most often get it wrong. But prophecy is different. It is the foretelling of future events...and only God can do that. The fact that the bible foretells future events (it doesnt predict them, there is difference) is a strong line of evidence that it is authored or inspired by God, not man.

No. Prophecy is speaking God's truth in God's world. It's not about "foretelling the future." The fact that the bible contains prophecy is a strong line of evidence that the bible contains prophecy. Period.

 

[Pegg]

No. Prophecy is speaking God's truth in God's world. It's not about "foretelling the future." The fact that the bible contains prophecy is a strong line of evidence that the bible contains prophecy. Period.

So if I am speaking about Gods truth, am i a prophet?

I dont think so. That is not the meaning of 'prophecy'

 

[Pegg]

Christianity is the only religion in the world that has made such a fuss over a crucified Jew. Even the Jews today think little about the incident. And the Romans have done away with this barbaric form of punishment. The Gentiles converts now make the bulk of Christians today and have displaced the Jews as the people to whom was promised the kingdom of God.

If the religion was to eventually become the religion of the Gentiles then why was a Jewish rabbi sacrificed?

I think people are missing the point of why God selected the Isrealites in the first place... they were selected, not because they were special, but because Abraham was Gods friend. God chose Abraham to bring the Messiah into the world for the purpose of saving 'mankind'

He was not merely saving the descendants of Abraham... he was saving the whole of mankind. If the Jewish people or any other people dont want that salvation, then God is not obligated to them. But the fact is, the door is open to EVERYONE and no one has 'ownership' of God, so all this angst about not being the 'chosen people' anymore really doesnt make a lot of sense.

No nation is more special then any other nation.

Are the children of Abraham, Moses, David and the great prophets of the Jewish past to be passed over in favour of the Gentile converts. Or was this the sort of blasphemous thoughts that got Jesus crucified. It is these dangerous false prophets that God warned Moses about in Deuteronomy. And why Jesus was tried, convicted and finally put to death.

Jesus was put to death because the people who killed him were murderers and full of hate, pride and bigotry.

There was no justification for murdering an innocent man and they were acting against the law of Moses when they put an innocent man to death. Their lack of fear of God is astounding and those who support their actions should ask themselves why too support the murder of an innocent man. One of the 10 commandments is "you must not murder" Anyone who thinks its ok to do so does not have God or his righteousness in their heart.

Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

Jesus proved that he was speaking from God. He had miraculous gifts to prove it...just as Moses was given similar miraculous gifts to prove God was with him.

Jesus prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem came true less then 40 years later... The fulfillment of that prophecy should have sparked a major shift among the Jewish people back then. That was a clear indicator that Jesus really was the promised Messiah and they should have repented and put their faith in him as God wanted them to.

God has never forced anyone to believe and practice obedience to him. But he has certainly shown his willingness to cast off those who reject him and his messengers.

 

[sojourner]

So if I am speaking about Gods truth, am i a prophet?

I dont think so. That is not the meaning of 'prophecy'

No. Prophet is a recognized, authoritative office -- one which you don't hold.

 

[Pegg]

No. Prophet is a recognized, authoritative office -- one which you don't hold.

No. Prophet is a recognized, authoritative office -- one which you don't hold.

but you just defined prophecy as speaking Gods word. I speak Gods word every day. Therefore, based on you definition, i am a prophet.

Perhaps your definition of 'prophecy' is not quite right??

 

[Bunyip]

Prophecy is not about 'prediction', correct. People are the ones who predict things...and they most often get it wrong. But prophecy is different. It is the foretelling of future events...and only God can do that. The fact that the bible foretells future events (it doesnt predict them, there is difference) is a strong line of evidence that it is authored or inspired by God, not man.

No, there are no specific prophetic claims thatt have come true, only a few vague, poetic generalisations

 

[Pegg]

No, there are no specific prophetic claims thatt have come true, only a few vague, poetic generalisations

well then, this comment suggests to me that you have never examined the bible's prophecies and if thats the case, i can understand why you would make the comments you did.

 

[Bunyip]

well then, this comment suggests to me that you have never examined the bible's prophecies and if thats the case, i can understand why you would make the comments you did.

I have examined them very closely, there is not a single example of any specific prophetic claim coming true.

 

[Pegg]

I have examined them very closely, there is not a single example of any specific prophetic claim coming true.

thats fair enough.

 

[outhouse]

but you just defined prophecy as speaking Gods word. I speak Gods word every day. Therefore, based on you definition, i am a prophet.

And based on how the word was originally defined, he is correct. The definition evolved into what you think you know today.

Perhaps your definition of 'prophecy' is not quite right??

No he is spot on. He has the education you do not.