Are Muslims right about Paul?

[Muffled]

Paul:
Romans 13:8, 9 Do not owe anything to anyone except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow man has fulfilled the law. 9 For the law code, “You must not commit adultery, you must not murder, you must not steal, you must not covet,” and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this saying: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.”


Jesus:
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”


The problem with trying to point out differences in Paul and Christs teaching is that Christ was teaching as someone under the mosaic law... but the mosaic law was put aside after Christ offered himself as a sacrifice. The very fact that gentiles and jews could afterward be joined together to worship the FAther is proof of that fact.

So all Pauls teachings are from that perspective... the worship of God through Christ rather then through the mosaic law.

I believe Jesus is answering a question and Paul is speaking about love. The context is different but the law is the same. I don't believe Paul would have been able to use the same wording without the aid of the Paraclete since he was not a disciple.

 

[Muffled]

17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5: 17-19

Are you suggesting that after Jesus rose from the dead this statement became irrelevant? Didn't Jesus say until "heaven and earth" pass away??

I believe there is a difference between the existence of the law and its relevancy. I have the law in My Bible but some of it is not relevant for me as a Christian.

 

[Simplelogic]

Yes. Much of it can't be done now. When the Temple comes back it will all be relevant again imho.

 

[Simplelogic]

That Jesus would return before the apostles died is a glaring one -- from the gospel writers, no less.

Of those today who are familiar with these words of Yeshua, the vast majority of them could not quote from memory the next verse, which was undoubtedly spoken in the very next breath. Yet virtually every one of them knows this passage and has likely quoted it as many times as the former verse. The reason is because there is no direct connection that one can draw between the traditional interpretations of these two statements. Yet it should be painfully obvious there must be a connection. Both verses together read:

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things are fulfilled. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away." Matthew 24:34,35

 

[Simplelogic]

Sacrifices in Temple Judaism can only happen in the Temple, which is in a specific place. Only if the Muslims vacate the Temple mount can the Temple be rebuilt. Then there's the whole problem of not having the Ark to reside in the Holy of Holies. No one's ever addressed that to my satisfaction. The Ark was integral to the theology of the Temple.

The Ark has been found.

 

[Simplelogic]

[QUOTE No. They don't. They reference Turkey or Asia Minor.[/QUOTE]

Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary - Asia
Asia [N] [H] http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/asia.html

is used to denote Proconsular Asia, a Roman province which embraced the western parts of Asia Minor, and of which Ephesus was the capital, in Acts 2:9 ; 6:9 ; 16:6 ; Acts 19:10 Acts 19:22 ; Acts 20:4 Acts 20:16 Acts 20:18 , etc., and probably Asia Minor in Acts 19:26 Acts 19:27 ; 21:27 ; 24:18; 27:2 . Proconsular Asia contained the seven churches of the Apocalypse ( Revelation 1:11 ). The "chiefs of Asia" ( Acts 19:31 ) were certain wealthy citizens who were annually elected to preside over the games and religious festivals of the several cities to which they belonged. Some of these "Asiarchs" were Paul's friends.

 

[Muffled]

Gee... seems to me that Jesus sent out 70 (or 71, depending on which version you like), for that's what "apostle" means -- one who is sent.

[edit]

My apologies, some sources say 72 -- not 71. But my point stands.

I think the church likes to use Apostles with a capital A to refer to the 12 and all others are apostles.

 

[outhouse]

The Ark has been found.

No it has not. [facepalm]

Start providing credible sources.

 

[Simplelogic]

No it has not. [facepalm]

Start providing credible sources.

Might want to pay attention to Israeli news over the next year.

 

[sojourner]

Do you think it actually existed?

Or just a later mythology. I surely do not see it as a literal event.

That's a problem people like Simple will have to contend with, along with the almost assuredly mythological Moses. That's what sort of happens when you take mythology literalistically.

 

[sojourner]

Of those today who are familiar with these words of Yeshua, the vast majority of them could not quote from memory the next verse, which was undoubtedly spoken in the very next breath. Yet virtually every one of them knows this passage and has likely quoted it as many times as the former verse. The reason is because there is no direct connection that one can draw between the traditional interpretations of these two statements. Yet it should be painfully obvious there must be a connection. Both verses together read:

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things are fulfilled. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away." Matthew 24:34,35

Still doesn't negate the fact that the prophecy was WRONG.

 

[sojourner]

The Ark has been found.

That's a laugh. Prove it.



<taps foot -- looks at watch>



<hears crickets chirping>

That's what I thought.

 

[outhouse]

Might want to pay attention to Israeli news over the next year.

Might want to pay attention to reality over the next year.

Using imagination to make any of these ties, is just that.


It is the same methodology as ancient aliens, or America unearthed, of any ufo show. All pseudo science garbage

 

[sojourner]

Might want to pay attention to reality over the next year.

Using imagination to make any of these ties, is just that.


It is the same methodology as ancient aliens, or America unearthed, of any ufo show. All pseudo science garbage

I call habeas corpus. Make him "produce the body," to see if his authoritative statement is actually authoritative.

 

[outhouse]

That's a laugh. Prove it.

You know if george t from ancient aliens joined any website, he would have to hide his own name like a coward, and then he would post garbage

And this work here

I call habeas corpus. Make him "produce the body," to see if his authoritative statement is actually authoritative.

Its like that George t [crazy hair] from ancient aliens, your never going to get anything credible, and you know it just turning to that station.

 

[sojourner]

It's the same with all these fundamentalist splinter groups. He admits to having, like, 3 other people who agree with him, and he doesn't give a tinker's dam about scholarship.

 

[outhouse]

It's the same with all these fundamentalist splinter groups. He admits to having, like, 3 other people who agree with him, and he doesn't give a tinker's dam about scholarship.

I call that extreme fanaticism and fundamentalism.

 

[Simplelogic]

Still doesn't negate the fact that the prophecy was WRONG.

Yes it does.

 

[Simplelogic]

That's a laugh. Prove it.



<taps foot -- looks at watch>



<hears crickets chirping>

That's what I thought.

I know something you don't know. You will hear about it shortly. I'm sure it won't change anything though, just something else for you to try to discredit.

 

[sojourner]

It's the same with all these fundamentalist splinter groups.

Yes it does.

No. It doesn't. The prophecy is WRONG no matter how you spin it out. This stuff didn't happen before the apostles died.