Are Muslims right about Paul?

[Unification]

So you are telling me unification, that all of the

No there isn't. That is why women in the Bible are always meant to be under a man! Either their father or a husband.

Isaiah 54:5King James Version (KJV)
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

 

[sojourner]

Evidence? Sources? I have rehearsed this at length and surveyed a large chunk of the scholarship. What you assert is simply not born out by either the evidence or the argument.

Obviously you haven't "surveyed a large chunk of the scholarship." You have surveyed a large chunk of ... something, but it ain't the scholarship, or you would have run across this by now. It is borne out by evidence. Heck, read Scott, Funk, Crossan, Koester, Rhoads, etc.

 

[outhouse]

Obviously you haven't "surveyed a large chunk of the scholarship." You have surveyed a large chunk of ... something, but it ain't the scholarship, or you would have run across this by now. It is borne out by evidence. Heck, read Scott, Funk, Crossan, Koester, Rhoads, etc.

Love ya brother

But even I think you over reach here.

There is no shortage of opinion leaning both ways here, correct?

 

[sojourner]

Love ya brother

But even I think you over reach here.

There is no shortage of opinion leaning both ways here, correct?

Correct, but my point stands. If he'd really done his homework, he'd have run across both sides. As I've so often said, it's not a matter of "proving which one is 'right,'" it's more about "choosing which camp makes the most sense to me."

 

[Unification]

Correct, but my point stands. If he'd really done his homework, he'd have run across both sides. As I've so often said, it's not a matter of "proving which one is 'right,'" it's more about "choosing which camp makes the most sense to me."

Which camp makes the most sense to you, creating zero divide?

 

[outhouse]

Correct, but my point stands. If he'd really done his homework, he'd have run across both sides. As I've so often said, it's not a matter of "proving which one is 'right,'" it's more about "choosing which camp makes the most sense to me."

Agreed.

I love a difference of opinion, provided it is an educated decision.

I think some of the traditions Mark used went back very early. I just cannot substantiate it to any specific time.

If I were to choose a doctorate and bring in a new focus, I have two areas in progress.

One, the need for a unified tradition like the gospel of Mark, as information was not being shared yearly with the fall of the temple. This created a need to compile traditions, as yearly growth of traditions had had stopped completely. No longer were different followers sharing these traditions. I feel a gospel would have happened anyway, but the fall of the temple might have accelerated the need. Had the temple not fell, many of the material still may have been produced, but I doubt the gospels would be the same.

Second. While Hellenism did permeate the Levant, there were still social divisions based on Hellenism and Aramaic Judaism. I don't feel there is enough current focus on Judaism that led to the divorce of Hellenistic Judaism.

 

[Unification]

Agreed.

I love a difference of opinion, provided it is an educated decision.

I think some of the traditions Mark used went back very early. I just cannot substantiate it to any specific time.

If I were to choose a doctorate and bring in a new focus, I have two areas in progress.

One, the need for a unified tradition like the gospel of Mark, as information was not being shared yearly with the fall of the temple. This created a need to compile traditions, as yearly growth of traditions had had stopped completely. No longer were different followers sharing these traditions. I feel a gospel would have happened anyway, but the fall of the temple might have accelerated the need. Had the temple not fell, many of the material still may have been produced, but I doubt the gospels would be the same.

Second. While Hellenism did permeate the Levant, there were still social divisions based on Hellenism and Aramaic Judaism. I don't feel there is enough current focus on Judaism that led to the divorce of Hellenistic Judaism.

Do you ever ask yourself, why all of the divide in the world, why so many religions, why one's is always right and the other wrong and egotistically one doing whatever it takes to defend their beliefs?

 

[outhouse]

Do you ever ask yourself, why all of the divide in the world, why so many religions, why one's is always right and the other wrong and egotistically one doing whatever it takes to defend their beliefs?

One religion is not always right. It is only perceived right by those following said religion.

No I understand the lack of moderation, fanaticism and fundamentalism are the true evils of the world.

 

[Simplelogic]

Isaiah 1:1-17King James Version (KJV)
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah (HEAD) and Jerusalem (HEART/MIND) in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

2 Hear, O heavens, (SPIRIT) and give ear, O earth(BODY): for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

3 The ox(BODY/HEART/MIND) knoweth his owner, and the ***(SPIRIT) his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.

4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole HEAD is sick, and the whole HEART faint.

6 From the sole of the foot even unto the HEAD there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. (A body of emptiness, desolation, laced with leprocy(sin).

8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city. (A body not in subjection to spirit, but besieged by evil fruit within.)

9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
(Kingdoms of slavery to sin within.)

10 Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? (Who told you to sacrifice literal animals? We are the animal and beast and our carnality needs sacrificed... We are the blind and the lame that needs presented to God a prudent body, mind and heart in the right state with God... They were presenting themselves to God with evil inside and murdering literal animals.)

13 Bring no more VAIN (outward, literal, physical) oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. (The entire law is internal, the genuine and pure approach and submission to God... Surrendering oneself... Brought low, humbled.)

15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
(The altar one builds to the Lord is within themselves... You are the temple of God, and the house of God.)

17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
(Seek equality, relieve the oppressed which is the literal interpretation of law oppressing people itself... The fatherless and widow also are not literal but are ones separated from God, they are not joined to their husbandry which is God(Spirit). ... Judge in just and equal measures.)

Fail

 

[Simplelogic]

Do you ever ask yourself, why all of the divide in the world, why so many religions, why one's is always right and the other wrong and egotistically one doing whatever it takes to defend their beliefs?

Let me guess…you have the answer???

 

[sojourner]

Which camp makes the most sense to you, creating zero divide?

There is no "zero divide" where exegesis and history of early writings is concerned, because we just don't have enough facts.

 

[Unification]

Let me guess…you have the answer???

Sure, I'm taught the answer. Anyone who truly does have the Spirit is taught oneness. If something creates divide and isn't what all of mankind can have in common, it's not of God. If something is 99% percent true, it is false. Anything divided against itself is impossible to be of God. If it's not of peace, complete humbleness, love, purity, complete equality, it's not of God. Quite simple.

Learn from a little child. They have more wisdom and knowledge and are closer to God than adults can be.

All religion is divided. Taking the scripture literally causes divide. Doctrine causes divide. Jesus as God causes divide. Girl below and in subjection to guy causes divide. Wars and fighting over holy land that isn't holy causes divide. Ego's cause divide. Debating causes divide. List is endless. Lies cause divide.

Start searching for what is ONE truth and what all of mankind have in common, if one genuinely cared and aren't wrapped in their pride, reputation, religion, created God, and agenda.

 

[sojourner]

Sure, I'm taught the answer. Anyone who truly does have the Spirit is taught oneness. If something creates divide and isn't what all of mankind can have in common, it's not of God. If something is 99% percent true, it is false. Anything divided against itself is impossible to be of God. If it's not of peace, complete humbleness, love, purity, complete equality, it's not of God. Quite simple.

Learn from a little child. They have more wisdom and knowledge and are closer to God than adults can be.

All religion is divided. Taking the scripture literally causes divide. Doctrine causes divide. Jesus as God causes divide. Girl below and in subjection to guy causes divide. Wars and fighting over holy land that isn't holy causes divide. Ego's cause divide. Debating causes divide. List is endless. Lies cause divide.

Start searching for what is ONE truth and what all of mankind have in common, if one genuinely cared and aren't wrapped in their pride, reputation, religion, created God, and agenda.

"Oneness" isn't the same thing at all as "sameness." One piano has many strings of differing pitch, and it is divided into upper and lower sets -- yet it's one piano.

 

[Unification]

"Oneness" isn't the same thing at all as "sameness." One piano has many strings of differing pitch, and it is divided into upper and lower sets -- yet it's one piano.

Being all different from one another doesn't justify that there are endless amounts of truths. We are all different, but there still is only one truth with God.

 

[Simplelogic]

Being all different from one another doesn't justify that there are endless amounts of truths. We are all different, but there still is only one truth with God.

Agreed. Except I don't believe you are defining that "one" truth accurately. Still waiting for verses which prove your concept of "spiritual" interpretation.

 

[Unification]

Agreed. Except I don't believe you are defining that "one" truth accurately. Still waiting for verses which prove your concept of "spiritual" interpretation.

Apply every single scriptural verse to how it can and does happen within you. View the entire scriptures as just God and YOU.
There is one God and every single human that's ever lived has had a heart, a soul, a mind, a brain, a spirit, flesh, bones, a body containing many parts, the ability to create, the ability to gain and increase knowledge, the ability to think, feel, will. All of that stuff is located within the human. Spiritually.

 

[Simplelogic]

Apply every single scriptural verse to how it can and does happen within you. View the entire scriptures as just God and YOU.
There is one God and every single human that's ever lived has had a heart, a soul, a mind, a brain, a spirit, flesh, bones, a body containing many parts, the ability to create, the ability to gain and increase knowledge, the ability to think, feel, will. All of that stuff is located within the human. Spiritually.

okie dokie

 

[sojourner]

Being all different from one another doesn't justify that there are endless amounts of truths. We are all different, but there still is only one truth with God.

And we each only have part of the whole truth, just as each piano string only has one note of the grand scale.

 

[Unification]

And we each only have part of the whole truth, just as each piano string only has one note of the grand scale.

That's a wonderful point! the Western world and Eastern world both hold pieces to the puzzle.

 

[sojourner]

That's a wonderful point! the Western world and Eastern world both hold pieces to the puzzle.

Absolutely.