Are Muslims right about Paul?

[Simplelogic]

Moses FACTUALLY has no historicity as ever existing.


Israelite's were never in Egypt, and evolved from displaced Canaanites.

There was no conquest, no exodus, and no Abraham.

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved [77] and other ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[78] Its major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period


Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures


Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, Finkelstein states in the same book that at the time proposed by most scientists for the Exodus, Egypt was at the peak of its glory, with a series of fortresses guarding the borders and checkpoints watching the roads to Canaan. That means an exodus of the scale described in the Torah would have been impossible.[33]

While the general narrative of the Exodus and the conquest of the Promised Land may be remotely rooted in historical events, the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated

If you want to challenge the validity of the Bible then why not start a thread on it. It is not the topic of this one.

 

[sojourner]

I dislike him so much. He has a wealth of knowledge, but his bias steer's his work way to much.

A horrid case of scholarship-gone-bad.

 

[sojourner]

You are mistaken on this point.

Nope. Not. Disagree? Bring something solid from the archaeological record to prove me wrong.








<Waits patiently>




<Looks at watch repeatedly while tapping foot>








<Hears crickets chirping>



Didn't think so. Owned.

 

[sojourner]

If you want to challenge the validity of the Bible then why not start a thread on it. It is not the topic of this one.

Translation: "Go away! I can't refute any of your arguments, and you're making me look bad!"

 

[outhouse]

If you want to challenge the validity of the Bible then why not start a thread on it. It is not the topic of this one.

:sarcastic

So your ignorantly attacking pauls validity, out of context no less, but you don't want us to refute what you state?

 

[outhouse]

Translation: "Go away! I can't refute any of your arguments, and you're making me look bad!"

He is doing that all by himself

 

[nazz]

Wait.

Jesus peace be upon taught that salvation was through belief and following the commandments. Paul said believe and you will go to heaven.

Jesus peace be upon said there is only one God. Paul made God equal to three.

Paul said/did no such thing

 

[nazz]

Yet he claims he learned his doctrine from Jesus in his personal visions…hmm.

Here is one of Paul's pagan influences:

Kicks Against the Pricks

Euripides : "kicks against the pricks" (Euripides, Bacchae.)

Aeschylus:. "kicks against the pricks." (Aeschylus, Agamemnon 1624.)

Acts 26:13 "kicks against the pricks" (Luke quoting Paul's vision account)
Note on Euripides: The context is that Dionysus discards his divine nature and walks in the human world disguised…Dionysus, the god disguised in human form, tells him that his efforts to resist the new movement will be completely worthless; he is not contending against flesh and blood, but against a god. “You are mortal, he is a god. If I were you, I would control my rage and sacrifice to him, rather than kick against the pricks” [From Euripides, The Bacchae]. Source:

A. N. Wilson, Paul:The Mind of the Apostle (W. W. Norton & Co., N.Y., 1997), pp. 75-76.

I'm sorry but I don't really have the energy to get into this in any depth. But I will tell you I used to believe as you do for many years. But I have completely changed my mind at this point.

 

[Simplelogic]

I'm sorry but I don't really have the energy to get into this in any depth. But I will tell you I used to believe as you do for many years. But I have completely changed my mind at this point.

I would love to hear why sometime.

 

[Sabour]

Paul said/did no such thing

Galatians are the writings of Paul.
King James Version (KJV)

3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:


Now the parts that I highlighted in red shows that Paul went against the law by claiming that Jesus peace be upon him came to save us from the cursed law where Jesus peace be upon him said, with his own words that I didn't come to destroy the law, I came to fulfill it.

Another point is that according to the law, anything that is hung on a tree is cursed and Paul claimed that Jesus peace be upon him was crucified and according to the law, anything crucified is cursed. Paul's claim that Jesus peace be upon him was crucified according to the law that he said that he came to fulfill is like saying Jesus peace be upon him was cursed by God and that would completely discredit him.


Here is a short video to explain my view in short words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fb-WPunPHU

This is the the whole video. The first 30 minutes or so explain how the guy found major differences within the bible it self


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYMKQKSV0bY

 

[outhouse]

Galatians are the writings of Paul.
King James Version (KJV)

Out of context , applied with ignorance.


Your vids are also worthless.

 

[nazz]

I understand your view. I just disagree. Throughout his writings Paul emphasized the importance of good works.

 

[Sabour]

Out of context , applied with ignorance.


Your vids are also worthless.

Why am I not surprised.

Oh wait typical Outhouse.

I am kinda used too your replies buddy. I thought if I simply didn't quote you for like 2-3 months you would stop. But yayyy you

 

[Sabour]

I understand your view. I just disagree. Throughout his writings Paul emphasized the importance of good works.

I think Hitler would also emphasize the importance of good works, if he were to write. I think this doesn't tell much about the person. Especially regarding the subject we are discussing.

I don't think it is allowed in any way for one to go against the commandments given to us by God. I was proving that Paul did that by opposing the message of God sent to us through the prophet Jesus peace be upon him.

I understand that you disagree with that, I hope you give the matter a deeper search in your own way.

I am happy to hear that understood my view and I know that everyone is entitled to his own opinion but finding truth is our duty.


Hope you the best in your journey.

 

[outhouse]

Why am I not surprised.

Oh wait typical Outhouse.

I am kinda used too your replies buddy. I thought if I simply didn't quote you for like 2-3 months you would stop. But yayyy you

Your desperation Is showing through, as you have not refuted a single word I stated.


Im so surprised

 

[sojourner]

I understand your view. I just disagree. Throughout his writings Paul emphasized the importance of good works.

I offer Romans 3 in dispute.

 

[nazz]

I offer Romans 3 in dispute.

You can't take one isolate passage to prove your point. You have to look at his writings in total to get the best perspective.

 

[nazz]

I think Hitler would also emphasize the importance of good works, if he were to write. I think this doesn't tell much about the person. Especially regarding the subject we are discussing.

I don't think it is allowed in any way for one to go against the commandments given to us by God. I was proving that Paul did that by opposing the message of God sent to us through the prophet Jesus peace be upon him.

I understand that you disagree with that, I hope you give the matter a deeper search in your own way.

I am happy to hear that understood my view and I know that everyone is entitled to his own opinion but finding truth is our duty.


Hope you the best in your journey.

I thought I replied to this but now I don't see it. I assure you I have studied this in great depth and my conclusions stem from that.

 

[nazz]

You can't take one isolate passage to prove your point. You have to look at his writings in total to get the best perspective.

I also draw your attention to this:

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

 

[sojourner]

You can't take one isolate passage to prove your point. You have to look at his writings in total to get the best perspective.

The passage encapsulates Paul's take on the way in which works reckon in the process of salvation.