Sabour
Well-Known Member
Point taken
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Are Muslims right about Paul?
- Thread starter Simplelogic
- Start date
Point taken
nazz
Doubting Thomas
can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me
nazz
Doubting Thomas
Just to elaborate I don't know of any mainstream Christian group who would say it is wrong to keep the moral commandments of the Bible. Paul never said anything like that. What is generally considered not binding are dietary laws and laws regarding the sacrificial cult. As a Muslim you should understand this as Islam teaches that each messenger brings new laws from God for his community.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Disagreeing. Paul doesn't see the works, themselves as creating salvation, but he acknowledges them as evidentiary of salvation. Hence, why he says that faith doesn't abolish the law.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Pretty much, though for some Xians they follow certain dietary laws, and some other laws as well. Technically Xians don't have to.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
From the verses I previously provided, Paul says that Jesus peace be upon him came to free them from the CURSED law. He also said no man is justified by the law in the sight of God.
Also
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
In Islam we have many prophets among which are Jesus Moses and Muhammad peace be upon them. But they all taught that the way to heaven is by worshiping God only and following the commandments.
As one reads through the bible, he finds contradictions between 2 messages. One is worshiping God and the way to salvation is through belief in God and following the commandments, the other is just believing that Jesus peace be upon him was god and believing that he died for your sins. This is what I call Jesus peace be upon him message VS Paul's message
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
How do you know what Jesus taught?
nazz
Doubting Thomas
basically, yeah. But that's a far cry from what is being claimed in this thread.
nazz
Doubting Thomas
I think there is general agreement on what those would be.
nazz
Doubting Thomas
No, from the CURSE of the Law which is death.
because as he argues no one can keep it fully.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
From the Quraan.
Jesus peace be upon him was a prophet in Islam and Quraan speaks about him more than it speaks about Muhammad peace be upon him. We even have a chapter in the Quran called "Mariam" which means "Mary"
Here is a link about those verses talking about Jesus peace be upon him
A Comprehensive Listing of References to Jesus ('Isa) in the Qur'an
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Sabour
Well-Known Member
Taking your second point.
Given that Jesus peace be upon him constantly taught following the commandments was the way to salvation, that would imply that Jesus peace be upon him didn't know or understand what he was teaching.
Why would Jesus peace be upon him teach us something that we can't live up to?
God doesn't ask us to do things beyond our capabilities.
Gnostic Seeker
Spiritual
Overall, yes. Jesus taught to worship one God and love one another. Paul made Jesus a saviour, opening the door to his later deification by the orthodox. Paul also held misogynistic and anti-glbt sentiments very contrary to Jesus's loving message of universal brotherhood. I'll confess the guy had some keen mystical insight at times, but he taught another Jesus in teaching that the messiah died for sins. That is my opinion though.
Simplelogic
Well-Known Member
This is true. The Torah itself tells us that YHVH's laws are NOT to difficult for us to do.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
For the Torah and the bible, I believe in the parts that agree with the Quraan, and as you said, they are many.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Yes. Seriously.
Jesus peace be upon him is a prophet in Islam and his story being born to the Virgin mother Mary is mentioned in the Quraan and his first miracle which was speaking as a baby to defend the honor of his mother is mentioned in the Quraan too. I think this isn't mentioned in the bible.
5:48
And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.
Sees
Dragonslayer
60 years passing is an issue for many when thinking of "accuracy"...600 years is all good
Sabour
Well-Known Member
60 years passing is an issue for many when thinking of "accuracy"...600 years is all good
Personally, 60 seconds for me is an issue when thinking about accuracy. For that reason I tend to look at the source rather than looking at the time.
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