Are Playing Cards Evil ???

[FFH]

It strikes me that this would also work as an argument against the doctrine of salvation preached by most Christian denominations.

"we are saved after all we can do" (Book of Mormon)...

Again I don't have specific references, too pressed for time now, no time...

 

[FFH]

"Gambling promises the poor what property performs for the rich--something for nothing." - George Bernard Shaw

Good point and something I ponder often..

An equally sickening and draining aspect of our society...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

do they think it's some sort of lottery on who gets saved, liek someone spins a big wheel and if you're lucky enough you're chosen?

"Welcome to 'Sola Fide', the show where, if God hasn't 'hardened your heart', you get a spectacular array of prizes!"

that would be Ludacris to me...

FYI - a quick bit of differentiation:

ludicrous - an adjective describing something that is deserving derision, ridiculous, or laughable.

Ludacris - a hip-hop performer who looks like this:

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Dude, everything from the slots to the crap tables are full of tricks so the casinos get their money and the consumer loses.

Such as?

Frankly, it's in the casino's best interest for some people to win money as long as the overall percentages work in their favour. Remember back to your stats - what the house takes is based on the expected value; what the individual gambler takes is based on the variance.

And in terms of persuasion for people to spend their money, I don't think casinos have anything on Coca-Cola.

 

[madhatter85]

Such as?

Frankly, it's in the casino's best interest for some people to win money as long as the overall percentages work in their favour. Remember back to your stats - what the house takes is based on the expected value; what the individual gambler takes is based on the variance.

And in terms of persuasion for people to spend their money, I don't think casinos have anything on Coca-Cola.

I read an article in popular science on casinos and the tactics they employ to make money.

Slot machines, often referred to as "The one arm bandits" -

Original slot machines had a gear with a missing tooth that triggers the "jackpot" and the "matching images". they are set by the size of the gear and number of teeh on how often this occurs, the reason there are so many slot machines in the casino is so they can have winners popping extremely often but in a ctuality each machine rakes in more money than the jackpot.
The newer and more advanced are run off computer generated algorithms, and once they have recieved a certain amount of money thier % chance of actually hitting a jackpot increases. but not before a certain money threshold is met.
That is why there are hundreds of slot machiens in big casinos. So thier patrons will see someone win big, and hope they win big too, causing the desire to keep playing thier slot machine.

 

[madhatter85]

"Welcome to 'Sola Fide', the show where, if God hasn't 'hardened your heart', you get a spectacular array of prizes!"


FYI - a quick bit of differentiation:

ludicrous - an adjective describing something that is deserving derision, ridiculous, or laughable.

Ludacris - a hip-hop performer who looks like this:

I didn't think anyoen woudl do it, i suspected soemoen would but you got me

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The newer and more advanced are run off computer generated algorithms, and once they have recieved a certain amount of money thier % chance of actually hitting a jackpot increases. but not before a certain money threshold is met.

Maybe on a cruise ship or somewhere else with little gambling regulation, but in most places where gambling's legal, the slot machine manufacturer has to demonstrate to the government agency that oversees gambling that the machine is random and fair. Usually, the innards of the machine are sealed to prevent tampering, and regular and random inspections and tests are conducted to ensure that they're operating properly.

That is why there are hundreds of slot machiens in big casinos. So thier patrons wills e someone win big, and hope they win big too, causing the desire to keep playing thier slot machine.

On top of that, the payout odds on slot machines are usually lower than most table games, and slots are logistically easier to put in place: a single machine doesn't take up a whole lot of room; you need significantly less staff (only a few cashiers for a large floor area, plus a small number of technicians vs. one dealer for every 5 or 6 people at the tables, plus pit bosses); and the money's handled in a more secure manner, so there's less chance of employee theft.

There are lots of reasons why casinos like slot machines.

 

[FFH]

Maybe on a cruise ship or somewhere else with little gambling regulation, but in most places where gambling's legal, the slot machine manufacturer has to demonstrate to the government agency that oversees gambling that the machine is random and fair. Usually, the innards of the machine are sealed to prevent tampering, and regular and random inspections and tests are conducted to ensure that they're operating properly.

The casinos would not be able to opperate, slots included, if the ratio of wins and losses were not in their favor and if certain tricks were not used...

Slots are pre set, by the manufacturers, in the Casino's favor, not the consumer..

On top of that, the payout odds on slot machines are usually lower than most table games, and slots are logistically easier to put in place: a single machine doesn't take up a whole lot of room; you need significantly less staff (only a few cashiers for a large floor area, plus a small number of technicians vs. one dealer for every 5 or 6 people at the tables, plus pit bosses); and the money's handled in a more secure manner, so there's less chance of employee theft.

There are lots of reasons why casinos like slot machines.

Yeah, a good biz on the owners part, if it was morally right...both the consumers and the business owners end up losers in the long run.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The casinos would not be able to opperate, slots included, if the ratio of wins and losses were not in their favor and if certain tricks were not used...

Yes, of course the house has the overall advantage on wins and losses, but that's no secret. Still, that doesn't mean that people can't ever win (remember what I said before? The house makes money on the expected value; the player makes money on the variance), and that doesn't mean that people can't approach gambling as paying money for entertainment (which I personally do - I like a good game of craps every now and then).

What "tricks" are you referrring to specifically?

 

[FFH]

Yes, of course the house has the overall advantage on wins and losses, but that's no secret. Still, that doesn't mean that people can't ever win (remember what I said before? The house makes money on the expected value; the player makes money on the variance), and that doesn't mean that people can't approach gambling as paying money for entertainment (which I personally do - I like a good game of craps every now and then).

What "tricks" are you referrring to specifically?

Ask MaddLlama, her husband is an expert magician and he's not allowed into the casinos, since he knows all the tricks, notice how she flew out of here fast when I started talking about that ???

Both sides play tricks, if they can get away with it, I'm sure...

What makes you think the casino owners or the players are honest, that's the furthest thing from their minds, I would think...

Cards are all about deception and trickery...

 

[MaddLlama]

Ask MaddLlama, her husband is an expert magician and he's not allowed into the casinos, since he knows all the tricks, notice how she flew out of here fast when I started talking about that ???

It's not because he knows "tricks" the casinos do, it's because he knows how to trick the casinos. They know how to spot people like that, and he doesn't care for gambling, so it works out well.

And, the reason I haven't come back is because I actually have things to do besides come here, and because I've realized that this thread, and debating with you, is a complete waste of my time.

 

[Panda]

Cards an objects. Saying cards are evil is like saying my sock is evil. You say gambaling is evil but it is paying money for entirtainment. Is your TV evil then? Or how about a book?

 

[FFH]

It's not because he knows "tricks" the casinos do, it's because he knows how to trick the casinos. They know how to spot people like that, and he doesn't care for gambling, so it works out well.

Yeah, it's okay for the casinos to cheat their customers, but it's not okay for customers to cheat the casinos.

They gotta get their money at whatever cost, morally or otherwise...

And, the reason I haven't come back is because I actually have things to do besides come here, and because I've realized that this thread, and debating with you, is a complete waste of my time.

Well thanks for the compliments they are appreciated..

Think about what I've said here and don't misread what I've written and/or suppose I've said something which I've not...

 

[FFH]

Cards an objects. Saying cards are evil is like saying my sock is evil. You say gambaling is evil but it is paying money for entirtainment. Is your TV evil then? Or how about a book?

Does it bring about any good in life ???

That's how I measure whether something is good or not..

Will it help my spiritual and intellectual developement to play poker or any other card games ????...

Can I gain anything from it other than how to deceive another ????

 

[AslanDesu]

Does it bring about any good in life ???

Fun and happiness. :yes:

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Cards are all about deception and trickery...

No more than football. Most offensive plays involve deception - getting the defense to go somewhere other than where you're going to throw. And ever see the coaches on TV, covering their mouths with the playbook so that the other team can't lip-read what they're saying?

Compare that to something like blackjack, where the players play with their cards face up; how is a blackjack player engaging in deception or trickery?

Football is all about deception and trickery.

Yeah, it's okay for the casinos to cheat their customers, but it's not okay for customers to cheat the casinos.

How do casinos cheat their customers? Give me specifics. You seem very sure that they do, so I have to assume that you have some evidence, or at least some well-supported theories.

You do have something concrete to base your opinion on, right?

Can I gain anything from it other than how to deceive another ????

- From most games, if played with the right mindset: fun.

- From poker, if you're serious about the game: how to read people and how to tell when someone's being honest.

- Again from poker: mental challenge. Between good opponents, it has all the strategy of chess (another game involving deception, BTW).

- From just about every casino game worth playing: math, math, math, and a bit of math.

 

[FFH]

How do casinos cheat their customers? Give me specifics. You seem very sure that they do, so I have to assume that you have some evidence, or at least some well-supported theories.

You do have something concrete to base your opinion on, right?

For instance, do you think the casinos hire guys like this to deal cards ???

Poker cheat

They have to make sure they win at least 70 to 80 percent of the time to cover overhead costs. To make a profit they probably need to be in the high 90's ...

Meaning in order to make a profit they need to win 9 out of ten times and you lose 9 out of 10 times, unless you're a cheat yourself..

Customers walk away losing, thinking well, it was good entertainment. Is it really worth the 1000 dollars lost ???



Casinos have these type of guys on their side so they can stay profitable..

Can I prove it, only with common sense. Businesses of any kind need to have a 10 percent margin to survive on top of their overhead cost. Which means the customer is losing 9 times out of 10 for the casinos to make a profit...


Poker cheat

 

[FFH]

For instance if the casinos won half the time and the customer won half the time, this would leave no money for overhead costs...

So they need to win more times than the customer, in order to stay in business.

This means they must be doing something to make the customer lose more than the casino biz owner.

If it was really just a game of chance, there should be a ratio of about 50 to 50 wins and loses on both sides, if the game is played without cheating on either side..

 

[Popeyesays]

The casino has built in advantages everywhere in the house. At the Poker Table they take a small percentage of each pot, that means who ever winso or loses, the house skims the pots both ways. So the poker tables will make money as long as there are players sitting there to play.

The slots are set to return at least 2% of every dollar dropped into them. This is above and beyond any jackpots paid out, so the slots always make money for the house two cents on every dollar and who wins what is immaterial.

The Roulette wheel in an American Casino pays out set odds on every kind of bet, and there are lots of bets to make. There are thirty-six numbers, Zero and Double Zero, yet if you bet a single number and win your odds are 36-1, not 38-1--again a built in percentage for the house. This translates across betting number blocks, odd and even, red and black, and the three "Dozens" on the wheel. Zero and Double Zero are not odd, they're not even and they're not part of the dozens, and they are GREEN, not red or black.

Again the money coming into the house is guaranteed every time a ball hits the green.

Black jack is the best odds for the player in the house, that and the crap table, but they are still weighted to the house from the get -go.

In other words the house NEVER needs to cheat. At least not in legal gambling houses.

They rake in 2-4 cents on every dollar that gets wagered, whether it's a pay out or the player loses.

And in legal gambling venues this is all guaranteed as honest as the guidelines on how the casino is allowed to make money. If One million dollars crosses the table on a given day, that's $20-40,000 dollars for the house. And, yes, millions cross the tables each day and the casinos turn that into investments, loans, real estate deals and turn further profits on each endeavor.

They do not need to cheat.

Now non-legal gambling is a total crapshoot. It is often dishonest and of course, it is unregulated.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

Poker cheat

And?

Regards,
Scott