Are Playing Cards Evil ???

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It has everything to do with making money...

Try making and keeping money without keeping the ten commandments, it's next to impossible to hang on to any money in the long run, if not immediately...

You may get by for a while. because there is a grace period, but then judgments will come and something will happen to drain your liquid assests or worse all you have...

I only keep six, and I do okay.

 

[FFH]

Day trading straddles a fine line, IMO.

What's the fundamental difference between buying shares on a hunch that they're going to go up in the next week or so, and gambling on a horse race on a hunch that your horse is going to win?

The only difference I can come up with is the number of legs involved.

You are lending money to companies that are doing good in the world.

Gambling on a horse race is doing no one any good.

Does a casino provide food, clothing, shelter or anything of value for the consumer, NO...

All the companies I invest in provide legitimate goods and services.

Currently I'm in a stock that provides natural gas...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are lending money to companies that are doing good in the world.

Gambling on a horse race is doing no one any good.

Speculating on stocks does no one any good either, IMO. And as I pointed out, when you purchase shares on the open market, you do not loan money to the company.

Does a casino provide food, clothing, shelter or anything of value for the consumer, NO...

Actually, most casinos have restaurants for food, many have hotels for shelter, and they do often have gift shops where you can purchase souvenir items, including clothing. Gamblers can often get gifts of these items for playing; they call these "comps" (short for "complimentary").

 

[Popeyesays]

You are lending money to companies that are doing good in the world.

Gambling on a horse race is doing no one any good.

Does a casino provide food, clothing, shelter or anything of value for the consumer, NO...

I agree gambling is bad behavior.

however, if you are in the casino gambling they will feed and provide you with drinks while you do so.

Visiting Vegas the couple of occasions Ihave done so, I learned quickly to find a place with nickel slots and start dro-ping nickels. By the time you have dropped fifty cents a waitress will bring you a diet coke.

Regards,
Scott

 

[FFH]

The LDS church has over 900,000 dollars in Pacific Ethanol (ticker symbol PEIX) they bought at around 20 dollars and it's now trading around 11 or twelve. It will probably trade in the hundreds in the next few years, but wouldn't it be better to have sold and then rebought at 11 dollars ???

Long term may pay off but you are stuck until it goes back up, if it ever does...

Cars will be running on ethanol in the future, all new cars are already set up to run on them...and many cars manufactured in the last ten years also are already set up to take ethanol. Walmart and Chevron gas stations already have deals in the making...

 

[FFH]

Speculating on stocks does no one any good either, IMO. And as I pointed out, when you purchase shares on the open market, you do not loan money to the company.

For what it's worth, the Lord commanded Joseph Smith to sell shares of stock in order to raise money for an LDS temple. It miserably failed because the people who had stock in the temple did not keep the commandments and they lost all they had and the temple was destroyed and the LDS members driven from their land...

It's okay to buy and sell stocks if you keep the commandments, the Lord will prosper you every time. I've tried it and had it work for me. I was able to support myself on stock money while I was injured and out of work and was given a warning if I did not keep the commandments I would lose in the market...

The Lord does not mess around...

Actually, most casinos have restaurants for food, many have hotels for shelter, and they do often have gift shops where you can purchase souvenir items, including clothing. Gamblers can often get gifts of these items for playing; they call these "comps" (short for "complimentary").

Please.......give me a break..

Got to get some work done, will post later tonight..

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The LDS church has over 900,000 dollars in Pacific Ethanol (ticker symbol PEIX) they bought at around 20 dollars and it's now trading around 11 or twelve. It will probably trade in the hundreds in the next few years, but wouldn't it be better to have sold and then rebought at 11 dollars ???

Long term may pay off but you are stuck until it goes back up, if it ever does...

This is a good illustration of why it's normally not considered appropriate for charities (and I'd include churches in this category) to engage in risky investments with donated money.

Sure, in hindsight, it's easy to recognize that they could've made more money by selling it at its peak and re-buying it now, but without good reason to do so founded on judgement and real value, playing with investments is gambling. Saying "if you had sold your shares two years ago and invested in Company 'X', you'd have doubled your money" is no different than one gambler at the blackjack table saying to another "if you had hit on that last card, you'd have won the hand when the dealer bust."

Without a clear rationale for why you're making your investments and a mindset of looking for an increase in value, not just share price, you're still relying on random chance... which makes it gambling.

Personally, I think that if the church couldn't find a good immediate use for the money, they should've just put it in CDs or another low-risk investment. The returns are less, but it's not appropriate for a charitable organization to be playing the market with peoples' donated money.

For what it's worth, the Lord commanded Joseph Smith to sells shares of stock in order to raise money for an LDS temple. It miserably failed because the people who had stock in the temple did not keep the commandments and they lost all they had and the temple was destroyed and the LDS members driven from their land...

Even though it turned out to be a risky venture (apparently, since as you say the shareholders lost all they had), this is the type of investment that isn't gambling: I think that a community taking shared ownership, literally, of an important project for mutual benefit is an excellent example of good investing.

There's a huge difference between this and speculating, though.

 

[FFH]

I agree gambling is bad behavior.

however, if you are in the casino gambling they will feed and provide you with drinks while you do so.

Visiting Vegas the couple of occasions Ihave done so, I learned quickly to find a place with nickel slots and start dro-ping nickels. By the time you have dropped fifty cents a waitress will bring you a diet coke.

Regards,
Scott

Expensive Coke .. They feed the addiction, that's all they're interested in, if that means keeping your stomach full to keep you there for 3 days straight with no sleep then they have done their job, which is to suck your bank account dry...

 

[FFH]

Why the sin of gambling is so serious, even more so than adultery, is because of this scripture...

Gambling takes billions of dollars from people that need it for their basic needs. No doubt welfare checks are spent gambling....

1 Timothy 5: 8
8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

 

[Popeyesays]

Expensive Coke .. They feed the addiction, that's all they're interested in, if that means keeping you stomach full to keep you there for 3 days straight with no sleep then they have done their job, which is to suck your bank account dry...

Ten nickles is fifty cents, FFH. That's more than competitive cost for a coke.

Regards,
Scott

 

[FFH]

Ten nickles is fifty cents, FFH. That's more than competitive cost for a coke.

Regards,
Scott

Thought you said fifety nickels..

 

[Katzpur]

Why the sin of gambling is so serious, even more so than adultery, is because of this scripture...

In another thread (heck, it could have been this one since we've covered everything under the sun so far), you said that sexual sins were next in seriousness to murder. Now you're saying that gambling is even more serious than adultery.

 

[SoyLeche]

Why the sin of gambling is so serious, even more so than adultery, is because of this scripture...

Gambling takes billions of dollars from people that need it for their basic needs. No doubt welfare checks are spent gambling....

1 Timothy 5: 8
8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Gambling is no where near as serious as adultery.

BTW - this thread is too long

 

[Jaymes]

Wait, the LDS church plays around in the stock market? Why?

 

[Katzpur]

Wait, the LDS church plays around in the stock market? Why?

The Church has a lot of investments (although I don't have any idea how FFH would be privy to which stocks it owns and what they're worth). It sounds like you see that as a problem. If I'm right, why?

 

[SoyLeche]

Wait, the LDS church plays around in the stock market? Why?

So do I a bit. You probably do too, or at least you will (maybe not actively, but if you don't end up owning a mutual fund or two you are going to be in trouble come retirement years).

 

[SoyLeche]

Speculating on stocks does no one any good either, IMO. And as I pointed out, when you purchase shares on the open market, you do not loan money to the company.

You don't do any direct good to a company, but the company probably cares more about their stock price then you do. It's tied to things like the credit rating that the company gets, which determines what type of bonds they can offer, and bonds do have a direct effect on the company.

Day traders also do the important task of removing arbitrage from the system, making it more efficient (I'm sure I learned something about that in my financial economics class - I should have paid more attention).

I'm personally not a fan of speculating on stocks. I agree, day trading is coming pretty close to gambling, if it isn't already there.

 

[FFH]

In another thread (heck, it could have been this one since we've covered everything under the sun so far), you said that sexual sins were next in seriousness to murder. Now you're saying that gambling is even more serious than adultery.

Yeah, I need to sandwhich that one in between, good catch and good point.. I was thinking the same thing and was going to mention what you've just mentioned here, but didn't obviously..

I would definitely put this in between Adultery and murder...

Murder
(add whatever else you want here, child abuse, spouse abuse, rape, etc.)
Not providing for your family, for instance, by gambling your money away that you need for basic needs. (a type of physical abuse)
Adultery

 

[SoyLeche]

Yeah, I need to sandwhich that one in between, good catch/point.. I was thinking the same thing and was going to mention this..

I would definitely put this in between Adultery and murder...

Murder
(add whatever else you want here, child abuse, rape, etc)
Not providing for your family (a type of physical abuse)
Adultery

Of course, Pres. Kimball would disagree with you. And Alma.

 

[FFH]

Gambling is no where near as serious as adultery.

BTW - this thread is too long

It is if you gamble away your life savings or use grocery money to try and make a quick buck, but then lose it while your kids go hungry..

That's serious stuff in the Lord's eyes. I have felt his anger when I did not want to return to my job, after I had recovered from my injuries, but I knew I needed to, of course, to provide for my wife and myself...but just the thought brought about a feeling of anger not originating from myself, which I felt from another source, that being the Lord's spirit...