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Are Playing Cards Evil ???

FFH

Veteran Member
Do I need to read all 400+ posts to state that playing cards are not evil. They are cards. An inanimate object.
They would be if they were just plain cards, no writings on them...

Like the steel balls used in Japanese pachinko, they are just steel balls, nothing else.

Poker cards are different because they have renderings and indices or symbols on them and are mainly used and associated with the gambling industry....

Poker cards make you think of poker, steel balls make you think of steel balls...

A horse makes you think of a horse, a car makes you think of a car, money makes you think of money, not gambling....
 

FFH

Veteran Member
And what is wrong with putting God to the test? He should put up or shut up as the saying goes!
God has asked us to test him, by obeying his commandments, to see if he is or isn't faithfull in blessing our lives.

He has asked us to test him, by keeping his commandments, not by doing the will of Satan....

Satan wants us to jump, God wants us to play it safe by keeping his commandments.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Again, drifting off topic...but will answer. I know plenty of people who have licked cancer by juicing, and what I mean by that is drinking strait carrot juice freshly made at home, with the skin on, that's a powerful cancer killer along with raw garlic, grape juice, beet juice and any other vegatable or fruit juice freshly juiced at home in a high power juicer...
I think that declaring that cancer can be cured by fruit and vegetable juice is irresponsible on your part. I'd find it funny if I weren't worried someone would take you seriously and forego proper treatment.

Eating whole foods is a permanent fix, not a temporary cure... Take the drugs, you will still die prematurely if you don't eat right. Drugs postpone premature death, that's all. Take the drugs and you will still die prematurely... Take the chemo, you'll still die before your time if you don't change your lifestyle, for example eating habits and sedentary life....

Everybody dies. In any case, it sounds like your objection to drugs is because you don't think they're effective, not because you think they're sinful. Is that a fair assessment?

No, I control my wins and losses. Trades can be made on the up or down side and stops but above or below a trade to stop losses and maximize gains.. It's not rocket science...

I trade on the up and the down side, depending on which way the market is going. It's a rush and it's all moral and legal and I am in control, not the dealer...

I decide what happens...
And the actions of a fluctuating market have nothing to do with whether you make or lose money?

I don't think you realize how much you're echoing the words of a problem gambler: "I'm in total control. I can stop any time, I just don't want to."

Nothing morally wrong with day trading, I've discussed it with my current Bishop just to make sure and with plenty of other good LDS members in the past....

If trading stocks is immoral, which it isn't, then everyone needs to liquidate their retirements, since they are all tied up in the stock market, as are home mortgages...

Dump your 401K's everybody, Becky says stock trading is immoral....
There's a difference between investing in a company that has a leadership that is aiming to grow it in real value by using sound judgement (or even ruthless competitiveness... though that's another discussion) over time, and speculating on short-term volatility. One is gambling, the other is not.

There's no inherent fundamental difference between day trading and wagering on horses or sports. When done properly, both take as much effort and research, and both have similar expectations of risk and reward. You may have stumbled onto a form of gambling that your church finds acceptable, but make no mistake: it's gambling.
 

Aqualung

Tasty
God has asked us to test him, by obeying his commandments, to see if he is or isn't faithfull in blessing our lives.

He has asked us to test him, by keeping his commandments, not by doing the will of Satan....

Satan wants us to jump, God wants us to play it safe by keeping his commandments.

Prove me now herewith...
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
They would be if they were just plain cards, no writings on them...

Like the steel balls used in Japanese pachinko, they are just steel balls, nothing else.

Poker cards are different because they have renderings and indices or symbols on them and are mainly used and associated with the gambling industry....

Poker cards make you think of poker, steel balls make you think of steel balls...

A horse makes you think of a horse, a car makes you think of a car, money makes you think of money, not gambling....

This is created by the human mind. Poker cards make me think of the games of Solitaire, Spaids, and Rummy. Go figure.

I used to hear a similar statement in AA. Many alcoholics to this day still call alcohol a demon rum. They attribute a sinister quality towards alcohol and thereby relieving themselves of some responsibility of their own. The so called "evil" does not lie within the inanimate object but only in the insecurities and failures of the human individual.

So no, I cannot see any logic whatsoever in calling playing cards evil. It is the failure within that individual which brings fruition to any supposed "evil".
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
I read the first few pages and stopped there. My eyes hurt too much from rolling them incessantly.:rolleyes:

This has got to be one of the most absolutely ridiculous thread topics I have ever seen in all my time at RF. I mean really, finding evil in little paper squares that are mass produced with pictures on them???? What's next? The evil of baseball cards??? Don't chew the gum...goodness knows what evil inhabits that! :sarcastic

Personally, I believe that nothing man-made or mass produced has any innate power of any kind until you give it that power. If someone is a little loopy and actually believes they can buy evil at the drugstore for $1.19 then I think that playing cards are the least of their problems.:areyoucra
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Nothing morally wrong with day trading, I've discussed it with my current Bishop just to make sure and with plenty of other good LDS members in the past....

If trading stocks is immoral, which it isn't, then everyone needs to liquidate their retirements, since they are all tied up in the stock market, as are home mortgages...

Dump your 401K's everybody, Becky says stock trading is immoral....

Never did I say that, I just said you were justifying your choices. There is a load of difference.
 

Tigress

Working-Class W*nch.
I read the first few pages and stopped there. My eyes hurt too much from rolling them incessantly.:rolleyes:

This has got to be one of the most absolutely ridiculous thread topics I have ever seen in all my time at RF. I mean really, finding evil in little paper squares that are mass produced with pictures on them???? What's next? The evil of baseball cards??? Don't chew the gum...goodness knows what evil inhabits that! :sarcastic

Personally, I believe that nothing man-made or mass produced has any innate power of any kind until you give it that power. If someone is a little loopy and actually believes they can buy evil at the drugstore for $1.19 then I think that playing cards are the least of their problems.:areyoucra

Believe it or not, Draka, this playing cards business is serious stuff for many Christians. I had a friend who went to bible college and playing cards were absolutely forbidden. I think he ended up buying a children's deck of 'Go Fish' cards to play with. Not sure if those were ever confiscated or not. :shrug:
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Believe it or not, Draka, this playing cards business is serious stuff for many Christians. I had a friend who went to bible college and playing cards were absolutely forbidden. I think he ended up buying a children's deck of 'Go Fish' cards to play with. Not sure if those were ever confiscated or not. :shrug:


Doesn't make one lick of sense to me at all. So what about Uno cards? Or Phase 10 cards? They don't have pictures on them...just numbers and occasionally words. It really makes no sense. The belief that you can go to the corner store and buy a little pack of evil for around a dollar is just absurd IMO. I mean, it's not like you are going to an occult shop that deals in voo-doo and stuff and buying a shrunken head or anything. We're talking waxed paper cards that have been mass-produced in a factory and have probably never even been touched by human hands by the time you open the box. Where's the evil coming from? The printing machine? The person who originally drew the pictures decades ago?

I still maintain that if you believe that you can buy evil at the dollar mart you have more problems than playing cards.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
I think that declaring that cancer can be cured by fruit and vegetable juice is irresponsible on your part. I'd find it funny if I weren't worried someone would take you seriously and forego proper treatment.
If someone gets to stage four cancer, where they send you home to die, Juice, you got nothing to lose, you're gonna die anyway. There are documented cases of lives being saved this way, why wait until you are at that stage. Juice now...

It doesn't have to be an every day thing, just when you feel week and sick, that's when I do it. If even I get a hint of a cold I eat a raw carrot WITH THE SKIN on and it knocks a cold flat out of my system. Sickness and disease have no claim on a healthy fed body... That's being responsible, taking chemotherapy may delay death or even kill cancer for a while, but it will come back twice as hard if you don't eat right. I've seen how fast it can kill people, within months...

Everybody dies. In any case, it sounds like your objection to drugs is because you don't think they're effective, not because you think they're sinful. Is that a fair assessment?
Fair...I take Motrin for occasional headaches that make it so I can sleep, otherwise I am up all night and the headaches come on when I eat Salmon, because some manufacturers inject red die in the fish to make it appear fresh and pink and the red die brings on a gripping headache that lasts all night and does not allow me to sleep. I never know which salmon has the red dye in it because they never list it on the frozen whole fish I buy. Some does some doesn't I take my chances, sometimes I get lucky, which is about half the time. I gotta have fish, it's keeps joints moving freely and free of old age arthritis (Omega 3 oils) not that I am onld but prevention is worth a pound of cure. I am 41 and 150 pounds no tooth decay no cancer... Currently I've been eating frozen 100 percent grape juice concentrate. It's powerful stuff, just a spoonful or two knocks out most sicknesses and gives you plenty of energy throughout the day. I'm weird like that...Whole wheat is a staple of my diet, as are nuts and jams...fruits and begetables and milk and I work in the pizza biz and still eat pizza...I'm not a total health freak just a sensible one..

And the actions of a fluctuating market have nothing to do with whether you make or lose money?
Things are now set up where you can choose to invest in a stock going up or down and make money either way, but you have to decide which way you think it will go and then invest accordingly and put in a "stop loss" at the price you wish to sell if it goes in the wrong direction, in this way you minimize losses and maximize gains..

I don't think you realize how much you're echoing the words of a problem gambler: "I'm in total control. I can stop any time, I just don't want to."
There is risk, but it can be minimized...

I make money if I keep the commandments, if I don't I lose money in the market. It's as simple as that. I've talked with others who have given me the same counsel. Keep the commandments and you will prosper in the stock market, at your work, real estate, or whatever you decide to do. I have a job, just do it on the side to make a few extra bucks, which I really don't need....

There's a difference between investing in a company that has a leadership that is aiming to grow it in real value by using sound judgement (or even ruthless competitiveness... though that's another discussion) over time, and speculating on short-term volatility. One is gambling, the other is not.
Tried long term investments, such as Microsoft, but pulled out after just a few months, just before it dropped years back and made money and bought my first computer with some of the money I made. It doesn't pay to stay in long term....that was my very first investment and it paid off... I have been hooked ever since...

Nothing morally wrong about it, but it is morally wrong to gamble. If I gamble I am disobeying God's commands, but if I invest that's obeying God's commands, look it up in the scriptures, God wants us to invest (lend and not borrow) he (God) commands...

I lend my money to companies whenever I buy a stock. Daytraders do not always get in and out the same day, they may stay in for several days, weeks or months, but never more than a year. I don't make trades every day, maybe once or twice a week...and if I stay in longer than a month I seem to lose every time, so I don't keep my positions longer than a month now, it never seems to pay off.

With real estate it does, but not with the stock market, most of the time...there are a few that do, not going to discount that...

There's no inherent fundamental difference between day trading and wagering on horses or sports. When done properly, both take as much effort and research, and both have similar expectations of risk and reward. You may have stumbled onto a form of gambling that your church finds acceptable, but make no mistake: it's gambling.
But with day trading you are lending money to someone to advance their company, whether that's for a few seconds or a few years, it all adds up and helps companies run their businesses. My money is nearly always in some company and I choose only companies that provide goods and services consistant with my values....
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Prove me now herewith...
Exactly and he also says, which I know you're aware of, "I the Lord am bound when ye do what I say, but when ye do not what I say ye have no promise".

"prove/test me herewith to see if I will not poor out a blessing that you will not have room enough to contain it".
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Day trading is certainly not gambling, neither are bonds or certificates of deposit, even though sometimes the issuers of bonds and certificates default.

In my faith Lotteries are considered inappropriate for fund-raising (as in raffles and such), but lotteries are not gambling. So, ofr the time being there is no administrative ruling on whether lotteries are permissable and the practice is left up to the individual believer.

My assumption is that lotteries are considered a "tax" of some kind, though that is not clearly supported anywhere that I am aware of.

I don't do lotteries, because they are punishingly bad odds. I may not gamble anymore, but I never was a chump.


Regards,
Scott
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
There is risk, but it can be minimized...

I make money if I keep the commandments, if I don't I lose money in the market. It's as simple as that. I've talked with others who have given me the same counsel. Keep the commandments and you will prosper in the stock market, at your work, real estate, or whatever you decide to do. I have a job, just do it on the side to make a few extra bucks, which I really don't need....
Saying that if you keep the commandments, you'll do well in the stock market sound like rather magical thinking, and again, is an echo of a problem gambler who has to do a particular ritual to "be lucky".

Nothing morally wrong about it, but it is morally wrong to gamble. If I gamble I am disobeying God's commands, but if I invest that's obeying God's commands, look it up in the scriptures, God wants us to invest (lend and not borrow) he (God) commands...
Actually, for most of the history of Christianity, loaning money at interest was considered a rather awful sin. They called it "usury".

But with day trading you are lending money to someone to advance their company, whether that's for a few seconds or a few years, it all adds up and helps companies run their businesses. My money is nearly always in some company and I choose only companies that provide goods and services consistant with my values....
Actually, you're not lending money to the company, you're buying and then selling a fraction of ownership. The company you're trading never sees a dime of the money you pay and get back when you buy and sell shares on the open market. Once they issue the stock for the first time, that's it; that's the only money they get from those shares. To lend money to the company, you'd have to invest in things like bonds.

Fundamentally, making stock prices artificially high does nothing to help the company, but it does harm other investors... both honest people like yourselves, as well as large institutional investors like pension funds. The only people it helps are the speculators, and they're as likely to be harmed as helped, since, as I pointed out previously, they're engaging in gambling.
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Since when did the ten commandments have anything to do with making money? Maybe I should read the thread.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Believe it or not, Draka, this playing cards business is serious stuff for many Christians. I had a friend who went to bible college and playing cards were absolutely forbidden. I think he ended up buying a children's deck of 'Go Fish' cards to play with. Not sure if those were ever confiscated or not. :shrug:
Some Christians get it, most don't...
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Since when did the ten commandments have anything to do with making money? Maybe I should read the thread.
They have nothing to do with making money.

It seems to me like FFH is claiming that keeping them will make you lucky, just like some people claim avoiding ladders, black cats and breaking mirrors will do the same.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Day trading is certainly not gambling, neither are bonds or certificates of deposit, even though sometimes the issuers of bonds and certificates default.

In my faith Lotteries are considered inappropriate for fund-raising (as in raffles and such), but lotteries are not gambling. So, ofr the time being there is no administrative ruling on whether lotteries are permissable and the practice is left up to the individual believer.

My assumption is that lotteries are considered a "tax" of some kind, though that is not clearly supported anywhere that I am aware of.

I don't do lotteries, because they are punishingly bad odds. I may not gamble anymore, but I never was a chump.


Regards,
Scott
Just for what it's worth, the LDS church is against lotteries, because its a form of gambling..
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Day trading is certainly not gambling, neither are bonds or certificates of deposit, even though sometimes the issuers of bonds and certificates default.
Day trading straddles a fine line, IMO.

What's the fundamental difference between buying shares on a hunch that they're going to go up in the next week or so, and gambling on a horse race on a hunch that your horse is going to win?

The only difference I can come up with is the number of legs involved.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
They have nothing to do with making money.

It seems to me like FFH is claiming that keeping them will make you lucky, just like some people claim avoiding ladders, black cats and breaking mirrors will do the same.
It has everything to do with making money...

Try making and keeping money without keeping the ten commandments, it's next to impossible to hang on to any money in the long run, if not immediately...

You may get by for a while. because there is a grace period, but then judgments will come and something will happen to drain your liquid assests or worse all you have...

It's happened to me several times. I make a bunch of money then quickly lose it because I decide not to keep all the commandments.

When I keep the commandments, I prosper and money comes in, much more than I need, but when I don't keep the commandments money is somehow drained from my account slowly and it seems nearly impossible to stop it unless I start obeying all the commandments again.

There is peace, prosperity and safety in doing God's will and there is only loss when doing Satan's will, in the long wrong, if not immediately.
 
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