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Are Playing Cards Evil ???

FFH

Veteran Member
Gambling is no where near as serious as adultery
It is if it becomes an addiction that makes it impossible to provide for your family and you then have to rely on welfare or worse your wife leaves you because you neglect her needs and your kids needs if you have any because you've wasted your money needed for the bills on gambling...

It's a doorway into serious dark sins...

SoyLeche said:
Of course, Pres. Kimball would disagree with you. And Alma.
Post scripture and quotes please...

Child abuse includes not providing for them properly and I've seen people not provide for their kids needs while going to Wendover, Utah and gambling their money away. I've seen unhealthy skinny kids in such families, THAT IS CHILD ABUSE and spouse abuse, and very serious in the eyes of the Lord. Gambling brings this on every time...

The boss I worked with for 8 years was addictied to gambling and his kids were so sick and skinny it was pathetic, while he and his wife had fat bellies from the buffet in Wendover no doubt...
BTW - this thread is too long :D
It's okay new cyber space/better servers are being created every day, no need to conserve space...:)
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Wait, the LDS church plays around in the stock market? Why?
There are only three investments that I see, two are next to nothing, dollar wise, and the other one is 900,000 dollars in a company that I have personally invested in in the past.

It's a solid great company and no doubt they will make a killing in the future, but for now they are at a loss... It's part of the game...

Even at a loss, the money they have invested is being used to build ethanol plants, which is a good thing no doubt. Bill Gates also bought the same stock at around the same price. He purchased 23 million dollars worth of Pacific Ethanol and he's currently sitting at about a 40 percent loss also, it's part of the risk you take, but in the long run they will probably make billions, both the LDS church and Bill Gates of course...

Bill Gates doesn't play the market and neither does the church. I was merely pointing out that it would have been better to pull out while it dropped and then get back in when it bottomed out, which it seems to have done and will no doubt only go up from here on out...

Daytraders take advantage of drops like this and make money on the down side as well as the upside. There is a ton of money to be made by trading this way.....

Again the LDS church does not play the market, they only really have this one major stock and it's the best stock you can buy, right now, and will pay off immensely in the future. They are wise investors. The LDS church is now run on the interest of tithing money only. My wife called and found that out, when we were asking about this investment in Pacific Ethanol, out of California....
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Wait, the LDS church plays around in the stock market? Why?
I was actually shocked to see that they had invested any of my tithing money in anything, but I've since gotten over it, because we've since found out how well they manage our tithing money, much better than any corporation we know.

I was looking at the major investors in Pacific Ethanol and was very surprised to see the LDS church listed as one of the major investors, along with Bill Gates... They are both wise investors no doubt and worth billions...
 

Aqualung

Tasty
In another thread (heck, it could have been this one since we've covered everything under the sun so far), you said that sexual sins were next in seriousness to murder. Now you're saying that gambling is even more serious than adultery. :confused:

That was madhatter, if we are remember the same instance. But it's an easy mistake to make. :D
 

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
The LDS church doesn't "play around." It uses its brains and invests for the future.

You gotta problem with that?
It's just shocking to me that the church would use donated money to invest in the stock market. Do people really go to church with donation in mind for that? Every time I've been donations have been asked for either to help with missionaries, with the upkeep of the church, etc... I'd be just as shocked if a Baptist church asked for money to toss into the stock market.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
It's just shocking to me that the church would use donated money to invest in the stock market. Do people really go to church with donation in mind for that? Every time I've been donations have been asked for either to help with missionaries, with the upkeep of the church, etc... I'd be just as shocked if a Baptist church asked for money to toss into the stock market.
Believe me I was equally shocked when I stumbled upon this investment the church had made, while thumbing through big high profile investors in Pacific Ethanol, purely by accident or was it ???

The LDS church has hired professional investors who know what they're doing. Like I said before the LDS church is now only being operated on the interest of the tithing money they collect, no actual tithing money is being used, only accumulated, now that's a wise investment corporation if I ever saw one...

I have no problems giving them 10 percent of my money because it is so wisely directed by inspiration from the Lord...

I could only hope to be as wise an investor as they are or rather the Lord, since he directs the LDS church......

Also there are LDS members in high positions in that company, if I remember right, so they will make sure the company profits, no matter what, they always do...
 

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I don't think it's right for churches to mess around in the stock market... if you want to do that, be a business.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I don't think it's right for churches to mess around in the stock market... if you want to do that, be a business.
They are listed as a corporation, when I saw the stock portfolio info...

Will look for the link again..
 

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
It's just being smart. Why can't a church act smart?
You know what would really be smart? Getting bonds. You're definitely going to get a return on those, and you'll know exactly how much you're getting. And you don't have to worry about the bank going "Oh well you gave us $20, but now you're only getting $11 back!"
 

FFH

Veteran Member
You know what would really be smart? Getting bonds. You're definitely going to get a return on those, and you'll know exactly how much you're getting. And you don't have to worry about the bank going "Oh well you gave us $20, but now you're only getting $11 back!"
But if you hold on to certain stocks, especially an alternative fuel stock, there is the potential of it trading in the 100's, it has traded in the 40's in the past and just looked at it today and it dropped to a low of 9 dollars. Who knew, even Bill Gates is now sitting on a 12 million dollar loss and the church about a 500,000 dollar loss, but they make that much or much more in a day in interest, so no big deal....and they haven't lost unless they pull out, which they will never do, the money was needed to help build brand new ethanol plants and there are LDS members in high positions in that company, if I remember right, who are using the money wisely no doubt and it will pay off in the coming years nicely, when they get the plants running. Arnold Schwarzenagar has toured the plants being built and is well pleased... They will be invaluable in the future when oil prices go through the roof...

They will be liquid gold mines...
 

blackout

Violet.

Are knives evil?
Are guns evil?

Are wars evil?

The one dollar bill can EASILY be viewed as an occult talisman.
(and it certainly IS in certain circles)
Just look at the "seal".
Whose ancient esoteric "symbolisms" are these?
In "whose" "god" exactly do we trust?......
As we handle/charge the en"graven" images day in and day out?

Money keeps men indebted to a handful of elite banking families.
Are we not to remain indebted to God alone?

Without money,
It would be all "hearts" and "go fish".
the cards could not destroy anyone.
(unless used to paper cut ones wrists)

So is the money evil?
If so....
will you stop "playing" your life's hand with it?
Or will you keep "charging" the talisman?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It is if it becomes an addiction that makes it impossible to provide for your family and you then have to rely on welfare or worse your wife leaves you because you neglect her needs and your kids needs if you have any because you've wasted your money needed for the bills on gambling...
And if taken too far, playing the market has just as much potential to leave the trader's family without money for essentials.

Daytraders take advantage of drops like this and make money on the down side as well as the upside. There is a ton of money to be made by trading this way.....
And things like short selling, buying on margin and derivatives have a huge potential to magnify not only profits, but losses as well. They increase the risk, and, IMO, push things across the line from investing to gambling.

It's just being smart. Why can't a church act smart?
It's acting riskily. Churches and charities should not risk their money. If they are doing good work, subjecting their investments to undue risk threatens their ability to do good work in future. It's irresponsible.

I served for several years on the board of a local non-profit organization (not a charity, just a non-profit). When we discovered that the previous board had invested a substantial amount of the non-profit's reserve in mutual funds, we decided to move the money to guaranteed investments (GICs here in Canada... I believe they're similar to CDs in the States). In our case, our non-profit didn't have any lofty goals (it's basically a large car racing club), but we recognized that the members who had paid dues and made contributions had done so to help the sport, not to have their money blown on the market.

In the case of a church or other charity, one would hope that every dollar they take in represents a unit of good that can be done for others. It can either be used immediately (since there is no shortage of demand for good deeds in the world today) or held for future use. If you do invest the money while you hold it (and I do think a low-risk investment is appropriate, since otherwise the money loses value through inflation), every bit of risk you take on represents the potential that the church or charity will lose some of its capacity to do good works. Just like gambling with money you can't afford risks the food in your childrens' mouths, speculating with charitable money risks the people in need who depend on that charity.

But if you hold on to certain stocks, especially an alternative fuel stock, there is the potential of it trading in the 100's, it has traded in the 40's in the past and just looked at it today and it dropped to a low of 9 dollars.
Some stocks have the potential to double your money.

Blackjack also has the potential to double your money. As does horse racing. Without a focus on the intrinsic value of the stock, there is no fundamental difference between a speculator and a gambler.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
You know what would really be smart? Getting bonds. You're definitely going to get a return on those, and you'll know exactly how much you're getting. And you don't have to worry about the bank going "Oh well you gave us $20, but now you're only getting $11 back!"
You aren't "defininitely going to get a return on those", you are just in a position of less risk. The bank may still default.

If you know what you are doing and have the resources to diversify properly the stock market isn't much more risky then the bond market is.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Blackjack also has the potential to double your money. As does horse racing. Without a focus on the intrinsic value of the stock, there is no fundamental difference between a speculator and a gambler.
Actually, blackjack is probably a lot less risky then the stock market, if you know what you are doing.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Actually, blackjack is probably a lot less risky then the stock market, if you know what you are doing.
I agree, to an extent. I know that if you use the proper strategy and bet accordingly, the odds are actually in your favour for blackjack. This could very well give a better return than just picking stocks at random.

However, I think if you invest intelligently, your long-term returns would be better than blackjack would give you, especially since most casinos will ask you to play a different game (or kick you out altogether) if they think you're card-counting.
 
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