Are Playing Cards Evil ???

[Hope]

This isn't legalism, legalism says don't eat pork, it's against the Levitical law, which was fulfilled in Christ's atonement, but this does not include Poker cards and dice, they are tools of the gambling industry, let it be used for that purpose only, not in our homes...

Legalism is so much more than the Levitical law, I'm afraid. It's only an example of legalism. You have a narrow view of legalism. Legalism is any time you impose laws.

Did you ever read I Corinthians 8 and 10? This is exactly what I'm refering to.

Do I keep idols in my home, simply because I like them ??? No, and they are unclean and we should rid them from our homes. In Japan nearly everybody had mini Shinto shrines in their homes, in which they had pictures of their ancestors placed and food, especially fruit, placed in front of their pictures daily, with incense burning and prayers offered..

I agree shrines and the like are offensive to God. But we are talking about playing cards. In case the difference is not obvious to you, let me point out that shrines are specifically made for the worship of other gods....playing cards are not specifically made just for gambling. I can just as easily play a harmless game of "go fish" or "war" with cards as I can play a game of poker with them....however, I'm not sure what other purpose a shrine would serve. Other than decoration.

God is a "jealous" (not in the earthly fleshly sense which we know) god, there is a better word I think, just can't think of it now, but that's the way scriptures describe it/him concerning this issue, and he requires our total worship and all our prayers be directed towards himself only and none other.

I agree.

This is not legalism, it's getting rid of all things which draw our minds away from the things of God and onto the things of this world.

Which is a wonderful goal. I'm not disagreeing with that at all. The legalism part comes in when someone decides that everyone else must follow their exact method of drawing near to God. For some, this is not watching any TV. For some, this is not drinking any alcohol. For some, this is not playing cards. All well and good, and more power to everyone who abstains from these things. But to prescribe one's own restrictions as laws for everyone else is imposing on their freedom in Christ.

No, they are also offensive to God, of this I know for a fact...

They should only be considered a "fact" if the Bible says so. There is nothing in the Bible condemning playing cards.

The spirit has whispered strongly to my mind about this over and over and over, almost more so than other things. It's like an entry way into a much much much darker world of sin, like fornication, adultry, drugs, smoking, drinking, gambling etc., which destroy soooo many lives...

And yet I used to play cards all the time, and I have not once been tempted to go down any of those paths. Of course, it never even occurred to me that such bad things were associated with my playing hearts, spades, war, and canasta. They just seemed like a good way to break up boredom now and then.

Could it be, FFH, that the only way playing cards could influence people to head down such destructive paths is if they already have a weakness, or tendency, to head down those paths anyway? I think this would be much closer to the truth. And if someone does have a weakness for, say, gambling, then he should probably stay away from cards. Just as people who have a tendency to get drunk a lot should stay away from alcohol. We all have various weaknesses and tendencies for specific sins. I personally don't have any tendencies towards drunkenness or gambling, so playing cards and alcohol pose no temptation to me whatsoever. But I have weaknesses in other areas.

And this, again, all goes back to those chapters in I Corinthians. I really suggest you read them.

 

[FFH]

Will read 1 Corinthians 8 and 10 and will then respond to your last post...

Just a note before tho, by posting my thoughts concerning this issue, in no way am I, or could I, force anyone here to not use playing cards.

There are many things my wife has that I would throw out, but they are hers and I can suggest throwing them out, but ulitmately it's her decision to do so...

There were a few things that I needed to throw out and hesitated to do so for years, then finally threw them out and I am at a place of peace in my life in which I thought I would never be.

As for my wife, I can't say the same for her, but we do agree on one thing, no poker cards or dice in the home...

Many things in the home can destroy it..

Remember Rachel (Jacob's/Israel's wife) had an idol which she stole from her father, before they (Jacob, Rachel and Leah and all of their household (servants, concubines, etc.) snuck away in the middle of the night, to escape the grip her (Rachel's) father had on Jacob's life and his evil dealings with him. He had cheated/stole from Jacob to no end and he finally had had enough..

When Rachel's father had descovered Jacob had fled in the night, he also noticed one of his idols was missing and he persued Jacob to find out who had taken his idol and to possibly kill him and all of his family and servants...

Jacob convinced him not to do such and evil act, his family being his (Rachel's father's) own posterity...

Rachel's father agreed but wanted his idol back and Jacob told him to search all his tents and whomever had the idol he could do with him/her what he pleased...

Rachel hid the idol and sat on the box containing the idol and claimed she could not move due to her menstral cycle.

Later Rachel died in giving birth to Benjamin, Joseph's younger brother..

Rachel was a very very special person in the Lord's eyes, but she did not obey one very very important commandment. No idols in the home/tent in her case ..

Poker cards are a type of modern day idol for sure, with their various renderings on each card, people just seem to have to have them, verses just plain cards..

A painting can be an idol in one's home, a car, a motorcycle, clothes, a home even. Anything we hold in higher regard than God, is an idol for sure..

Anything we worship/put in higher regard than God or the things of God, would definitely be considered an idol of sorts/a type of idol...

Rachel may have paid the ultimate sacrifice for having kept an idol in her possession, that being death upon the birth of her second son Benjamin, which happened in what is now called Bethlehem...

God can give us new life in the midst of our pain, suffering and even death...

God/Christ is the source of life, not the various idols/things of this world.

It was very symbolic, that Rachel died in what was later known as Bethlehem, where Christ was born.

Christ is the source of all that we desire, not the things of this world, as Rachel had supposed.

Don't get me wrong though, she will not be condemned to any hell for this, but rather is exalted in the heavens, for sure.

She brought us Joseph and Benjamin, two very very special people in the eyes of the Lord...

Rachel, bless her heart...

Can we learn from her mistake ??? Sure we can and it should speak volumes to us of the world we now live in that has sooo many idols/things that we place in higher regard than the things of God..

 

[MaddLlama]

I wouldn't go that far, and our family, growing up, used Uno cards, and it was a lot of fun...

Dice and Poker cards stand out, in my mind, as the biggest offenses....because they are associated with gambling and exclusively used in that industry, for that purpose...

They represent a huge money sucking inudustry which does no good for society, but rather degrades it...

It's sort of a tree hugger response to this corrupt industry, a mild protest if you will...

Yet, you consistantly ignore the fact that playing cards are not exclusively used for gambling.

I think you haven't a leg left to stand on. Your history and claim that they're just like fortune telling cards was way off base, so now you've moved on to talking about the gambling industry. But as it;s been said before, just because people use cards to gamble doesn't mean that's the only use for playing cards.

If you don't want to play cards, then don't play cards. But, just because you don't want to use them doesn't make them evil. Calling them evil is just an excuse and a way to avoid personal responsibility.

 

[Isabella Lecour]

Please take a look at 1 Corinthians 8:9. (biblegateway dot com is a good site)

8But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. 10For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;

It's clear that for FFH playing cards are a huge problem so for him it's evil. His POV is just for him no matter how he may word it. His fellow LDS'er may have issues with it but those are issues they must deal with in there own way.

I think that FFH has fallen to the belife that what is true for him is true for everyone. Frankly it's very hard to argue or convence someone when they reach this point. I should know. My own mother ran afoul of this particular chapter in the Bible.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Jesus taught in this matter should we pray, "...thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..."

Will poker cards and dice be a part of heaven, will lottery tickets be a part of heaven, absolutely not.

Will surgery be part of heaven?

Gambling shows to God that we don't trust him for all we need and want...

Like surgery?

 

[FFH]

Yet, you consistantly ignore the fact that playing cards are not exclusively used for gambling.

If you know so much about these cards then what was there original use created for ??? Fortune telling ???

Are they adapted/modified Tarot cards that became heavily used in the gambling industry ???

This is their main use today for sure, you can't deny that...

I think you haven't a leg left to stand on. Your history and claim that they're just like fortune telling cards was way off base, so now you've moved on to talking about the gambling industry. But as it;s been said before, just because people use cards to gamble doesn't mean that's the only use for playing cards.

It's the main use and that's what people associate them with..

That''s good enough for me to rid them from my home...

If you don't want to play cards, then don't play cards. But, just because you don't want to use them doesn't make them evil. Calling them evil is just an excuse and a way to avoid personal responsibility.

It's what they represent, gambling, plain and simple, plain and simple..

I have no problems with gambling, never have, never will... That's not the issue, the issue is these things lead to other things...

Their a doorway into a dark world...

Strip poker anyone ???

 

[FFH]

Please take a look at 1 Corinthians 8:9. (biblegateway dot com is a good site)



It's clear that for FFH playing cards are a huge problem so for him it's evil. His POV is just for him no matter how he may word it. His fellow LDS'er may have issues with it but those are issues they must deal with in there own way.

I think that FFH has fallen to the belife that what is true for him is true for everyone. Frankly it's very hard to argue or convence someone when they reach this point. I should know. My own mother ran afoul of this particular chapter in the Bible.

That verse is talking about food, which is not evil, but poker cards are different than food, for sure.

Use plain cards for your go fish games..

It's just proves to me that these poker cards have a great hold on people, because they defend them to no end here.

If they don't have a grip on all of you, throw them out and buy plain Uno cards or something similar.

You can't because you're all addicted to a bunch of poker cards, just because it's cool that they are used in that industry and for no other reason.

It shows your loyalties to that type of industry or way of thinking or whatever you think those cards represent...

Gambling has many different forms...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you know so much about these cards then what was there original use created for ??? Fortune telling ???

Are they adapted/modified Tarot cards that became heavily used in the gambling industry ???

This is their main use today for sure, you can't deny that...

Bridge, "Go Fish", Hearts, Solitaire, Crazy Eights, etc., aren't gambling.

Betting on professional sports is very common. Does that make the sport that's being bet on inherently immoral?

Also, I can't fathom why you would claim that cards are created for gambling, but dice are not.

It's the main use and that's what people associate them with..

If by "people", you mean "you", then yes. If you mean "people generally", then no.

I have no problems with gambling, never have, never will... That's not the issue, the issue is these things lead to other things...

Their a doorway into a dark world...

Strip poker anyone ???

As intrigued as I am by the offer, I think I'll pass. I think strip poker on an internet forum would be kinda like ventriloquism on the radio anyhow.

Seriously, though, why are you singling out playing cards in this regard? Competitive sports have the same kinds of dangers... or do you not think that an activity where "winning" alone is acknowledged and rewarded, and not fair play or virtuous behaviour, would ever lead a person to have messed-up values?

 

[MaddLlama]

If you know so much about these cards then what was there original use created for ??? Fortune telling ???

Are they adapted/modified Tarot cards that became heavily used in the gambling industry ???

Playing cards came first, fortune telling cards came later. Tarrocchi cards were playing cards, they were used to play a game called "Tarrocchi". It wasn't until some centuries after playing cards were popular that the idea to use them as "fortune telling" devices came about.
Tarot cards are based on playing cards, not the other way around.
That clear enough for you?

This is their main use today for sure, you can't deny that...

Yes, I do deny that the main use of playing cards is for gambling. Yes, you can use them for gambling. Yes, lots of people play poker. But, playing cards have such a wide range of uses that it simply can't be pegged down into saying that their main use is gambling.
No, their main use is playing games. Only some of those games involve gambling, and even those that do don't have to involve actual money. And, just because you play poker doesn't mean you're addicted to gambling or that you're part of the "gambling industry".

It's the main use and that's what people associate them with..

That''s good enough for me to rid them from my home...

No, it's the main use you associate them with. There's a big difference. Do you assume that what you think it what everyone else thinks?

I have no problems with gambling, never have, never will... That's not the issue, the issue is these things lead to other things...

Their a doorway into a dark world...

Strip poker anyone ???

Right, just like D&D.

Posting on RF is a gateway into the dark world of internet addiction.

Do kids who play monopoly, or any other game with dice grow up and become addicted to gambling?

Really, I see two problems here:
First, you seem to have no concept of personal responsibility. Second, you assume that because you think something, it means everyone else must too.

 

[FFH]

Will surgery be part of heaven?

If we had enough faith, surgery would not be needed.., but since most don't have that kind of faith, then it's needed.

I injured my foot very very badly and had the faith for it to be healed and did not go to the doctor.

My foot is fine and have no problems with it.

It was crushed in a motorcycle accident, between my 400 pound bike and some idiots bumper, who pulled out in front of me on my way to work.

I spent a year recovering, but it's fine now, with absolutely no problems.

I nearly lost it for sure. Could not look at it it was so badly damaged and there's really nothing anyone can do for foot injuries. One of my friends had the same type of motorcycle injury 25 years ealier and they had to amputate his leg up to the knee. Absolutely nothing they could do...

My leg was messed up to the knee, as the blood circulation was poor and it was swollen up to the knee.

Very scarey stuff and nearly made me vomit a few times just looking at my foot..

Scarey stuff, but God is good and he literally fixed my foot. Knitted my bones back together perfectly and literally restored life back into a nearly dead foot, to the core it was just about dead.

I almost lost it for sure. I knew that and prayed mightily to God for a restored foot.

I promised I would not take any insurance money if he would restore my foot and he did.

I have an insurance check which I will never cash as proof of my injuries..and as a thanks to God for restoring my health.

I was out for a whole year, unable to work or walk...

 

[FFH]

Playing cards came first, fortune telling cards came later. Tarrocchi cards were playing cards, they were used to play a game called "Tarrocchi". It wasn't until some centuries after playing cards were popular that the idea to use them as "fortune telling" devices came about.
Tarot cards are based on playing cards, not the other way around.
That clear enough for you?

Could you explain what the game of Tarrochi is all about.

I can look it up, but am here at work. Got to get back to work, thx, will post later.

 

[Popeyesays]

That verse is talking about food, which is not evil, but poker cards are different than food, for sure.

Use plain cards for your go fish games..

It's just proves to me that these poker cards have a great hold on people, because they defend them to no end here.

If they don't have a grip on all of you, throw them out and buy plain Uno cards or something similar.

You can't because you're all addicted to a bunch of poker cards, just because it's cool that they are used in that industry and for no other reason.

It shows your loyalties to that type of industry or way of thinking or whatever you think those cards represent...

Gambling has many different forms...

Sounds like you're an Apple user, rather than PC. I mean the tone, not in actuality, or a Chicago White Sox rabid supporter who believes all the other teams should go out of existence so the Sox can play themselves in an exhibition series.

"Overboard", obsession, rant, diatribe, snitfit -- are all terms that come to mind.

The games come from the fact that a single deck is "standard". Back in the 1930's a company created a special bridge game with a unique deck. The deck had five suits, not four. The fifth suit was "Eagles". Some people took up the game 'cause it was different, it quickly died out because a standard deck meant you could buy that deck and play hundreds of games all using the same deck.

Today you can still create a Pinochle deck from regular playing cards--or rather a couple of decks of playing cards--without muss or fuss.

A writer whom I admired created a science fiction book using the imagery of that five suit deck, titled "Jack of Eagles". He used it to set the character apart as something different in kind. The character was a psychic with demonstrable powers--so he was a "player" of a different kind.

I haven't seen a book that uses "Uno" imagery.

As to using Uno decks, guess what--it's still a deck of cards with four colors instead of suits and 1-13 values on the cards.

You can play the exact same game with a deck of playing cards--it's called "Crazy Eights".

Regards,

Scott

Regards,
Scott

 

[MaddLlama]

Could you explain what the game of Tarrochi is all about.

I can look it up, but am here at work. Got to get back to work, thx, will post later.

Rules of card games: Tarocchi Bolognesi: Ottocento

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If we had enough faith, surgery would not be needed.., but since most don't have that kind of faith, then it's needed.

I injured my foot very very badly and had the faith for it to be healed and did not go to the doctor.

My foot is fine and have no problems with it.

It was crushed in a motorcycle accident, between my 400 pound bike and some idiots bumper, who pulled out in front of me on my way to work.

I spent a year recovering, but it's fine now, with absolutely no problems.

And you're sure it was faith that healed it, not your own body's healing mechanisms and the conscientious care on your part (or maybe luck) to avoid infection?

In any case, you acknowledge that some things aren't the same on Earth as the are in heaven, right?

I have an insurance check which I will never cash as proof of my injuries..and as a thanks to God for restoring my health.

How does not cashing the cheque give thanks to God? Does He own your insurance company?

You know... if the cheque's not stale-dated, you could sign it over to a charity or to your church. You could keep your promise and still have the money do some good.

 

[FFH]

Rules of card games: Tarocchi Bolognesi: Ottocento

Okay great thanks a bunch..

 

[Pardus]

Evil doesn't exist, it's just a word to bash someone or something you dislike.

 

[Isabella Lecour]

That verse is talking about food, which is not evil, but poker cards are different than food, for sure.

That verse has a whole lot more to do with this issue than poker cards. Have you failed to see the prinicpal of the matter reflected in the verse? I find it astounding that you have said such a thing.

It is clear to me you care not for the issue at hand but instead in defending your position without adequate reflexion. As a grinding stone, you are smooth.

 

[FFH]

And you're sure it was faith that healed it, not your own body's healing mechanisms and the conscientious care on your part (or maybe luck) to avoid infection?

Yes, because about three months into the injury a major miracle happened after I was prayed over. The bones went back into place, the way they were before the accident, I could feel them, otherwise I would have had to have pins in my foot...

Previously I was also unable to stand for more than 30 seconds without my foot swelling up more than it was constantly swollen anyway and it remained swollen for about 11 months, but I could stand and get myself to the store with a leg brace after I was prayed over.

The recovery took another 8 months, but I was able to function to some degree, but had to remain horizontal most of the time, could not stand for more than a half hour or so, and obviously unable to work, previously I just lay in my bed for 3 months, gettin up only for a few minutes, just mainly posting on RF and trading stocks on the net, that's when I found RF and started posting here.

I actually had Pat Robertson pray for me that day, while watching his news program. He said there's a guy who has had his leg crushed and said "stand up and do something you could not do before"

I stood up and the spirit flooded over my body and I stood on my injured foot, with no pain and even lifted my other foot to make sure I was not imagining it..

Previously, for the last 3 months that would have been impossible without pain shooting through my body to no end. Could not even look at it or touch it or take a shower without extreme pain. Serious serious pain to no end..

A miracle happened that day and the foot began a slow recovery for the next 8 months, which had not happened before that, it seemed to be not recovering and I was getting very scared of losing the use of my foot altogether, it was swell up to the knee, when I would stand up and was in danger of losing the foot if I stood for more than a few minutes, it would go absolutely numb, no feeling whatsoever..

Thank God I was prayed over and had neighbors give me two seperate blessings 8 months later so I could return to work, since the foot kept craping up if I walked on it and was still swollen after nearly a year...just enough to keep me from being able to work...

Persistent pain, but barable pain, not like before Pat prayed for me, I could not even think of puting weight on my foot..

Prayer works and miracles happen, laugh if you want, I still have my foot and the use of it, you don't know the extent of my injuries. It remained Grey,yellow, purple, red, etc. for nearly a year after the accident, but at least I could use a leg brace and get myself to the store without being in extreme pain...

Sure it healed by itself, but only after the bones and major problems were healed by God. The rest healed by itself, but God fixed the stuff that would not heal, like the dead core and the bones which were mangled..

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Prayer works and miracles happen, laugh if you want, I still have my foot and the use of it, you don't know the extent of my injuries. It remained Grey,yellow, purple, red, etc. for nearly a year after the accident, but at least I could use a leg brace and get myself to the store without being in extreme pain...

Sure it healed by itself, but only after the bones and major problems were healed by God. The rest healed by itself, but God fixed the stuff that would not heal, like the dead core and the bones which were mangled..

Which He could have done any time and which He presumably knew from the start would need fixing, but which He waited three months until your friend asked Him to heal them before He actually did anything about them?

Hmm.

 

[FFH]

After observing the way these cards are being defended here, it's obvious many have an unhealthy obsession with these particular cards.

If I started a thread on the evils of Uno cards, not many would respond.

Don't mess with peoples poker playing cards, they are so dear to people's heart.

Could it be that somebody dedicated these cards, with their particular renderings and indices to Satan and his many vices he imputes unto men ???

Is not card playing/poker one of the most searched/popular things on the net.

The last manager I worked under, myself being the assistant, spent hours each day here at work playing poker or whatever with others on the net or with the computer...

Practice poker with virtual money...he was obsessed...he had money problems to no end..deep in debt...

Acknowledge God as our source of all that we have and this will never happen along with tithes and offerings paid...

Many practice with these cards in case they need to gamble for real money if they can't pay the bills, which finds them in deeper debt once hooked to these cards and real poker with real people.