Are the 10 Commandments as a whole valid today?

[JesusBeliever]

Do Christians keep the commands of Jesus? Especially the "New" commandment?

Hi there, I can't speak for others but I've tried to. I say tried because I've stumbled and fallen and failed to keep it many times. The hard part is loving your enemies and blessing those who curse you, doing good and praying for those who despitefully use you and persecute you. Ya know, turning the other cheek when the first one has literally been slapped or worse. But despite my failings I am getting better at it with practise.

Oh, and about the poor animals, did their blood do any good on forgiving sins? Did cutting the throat of a lamb cause people to repent? Probably not much. So what does get people to repent? Believing in Jesus? It doesn't seem like it. In fact, can anyone, even with the help of Jesus, ever repent of all their sins? And, like I've asked before, if a Christian knows of a sin they have and doesn't repent, can they really say they believe in Jesus 100%? So I got a feeling all of us fall short of Jesus' standard. Some of us question that standard and question Jesus. Others say they "believe", break his rules and go on as if all is well.

We definitely all fall short as the Scriptures say:

"What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:9-31

And, when it comes to being okay with all but one of the Ten Commandments, why do most Christians keep a day set aside for God? Where did they get that "rule" from? And why Sunday? Especially during football season? Actually why Saturday either? Why mess up the weekend. Why not make God's special day during a work day?

In the NT, Saturday is referred to as the "Sabbath" and Sunday is referred to as the "First day of the week". It seems that the justification for most Christians gathering on Sunday is from the fact that Jesus rose from the dead on the "First day of the week"(Mark 16:9) appeared to the disciples on the "First day of the week" (John 20:19) and the disciples are later seen gathering together and breaking bread on the "First day of the week" (Acts 20:7;1 Co 16:2)

 

[metis]

Is ' Not like being bossed around ' why people do Not want to follow Jesus' New commandment to have self-sacrificing love for others as mentioned at John 13:34-35 ?________

"Self-sacrificing love" is also found in Torah. Most of the sages believe that the issues of compassion and justice for others is paramount to the point of believing that this may be the main purpose of Torah in the first place. Therefore, Jesus' commandment was really not "New" at all, and the "Sermon On the Mount" is basically spot-on Jewish prose, for example.

 

[roger1440]

Is ' Not like being bossed around ' why people do Not want to follow Jesus' New commandment to have self-sacrificing love for others as mentioned at John 13:34-35 ?________

34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (John 13:34-35)

Note the word “as” in verse 34. This “new command” is not to “love one another”. There is already a command in Jewish scripture to love one another. The newness of this command comes from Jesus being a paradigm, an example set as a model. This explains the word “as”. The verse is showing a similarity between “love one another” and Jesus. How do I know this? Simple, just using a process of deduction. Jewish scripture is complete. Nothing can be added or taken away. Jewish scripture already has a command to love one another.

 

[CG Didymus]

Hi there, I can't speak for others but I've tried to. I say tried because I've stumbled and fallen and failed to keep it many times. The hard part is loving your enemies and blessing those who curse you, doing good and praying for those who despitefully use you and persecute you. Ya know, turning the other cheek when the first one has literally been slapped or worse. But despite my failings I am getting better at it with practise.


We definitely all fall short as the Scriptures say:

"What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:9-31


In the NT, Saturday is referred to as the "Sabbath" and Sunday is referred to as the "First day of the week". It seems that the justification for most Christians gathering on Sunday is from the fact that Jesus rose from the dead on the "First day of the week"(Mark 16:9) appeared to the disciples on the "First day of the week" (John 20:19) and the disciples are later seen gathering together and breaking bread on the "First day of the week" (Acts 20:7;1 Co 16:2)

Good for you. I tried to follow Jesus and got worse at it. On the Sabbath, that must have been tough on Jewish converts to suddenly have Saturday be a "normal" day. I can see why the switch to Sunday, and not having to follow the Sabbath Laws, were good for the non-Jews, but still, it's a tough sell to say it's Biblical.

 

[JesusBeliever]

Good for you. I tried to follow Jesus and got worse at it.

Which really means that you succeeded, as did I
In that we both proved to ourselves that the Scriptures are true when they say:

"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Romans 7:18-24

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Matthew 1:21

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Galatians 3:24-25

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

If I may just share quickly, I used to try and follow Jesus in my own strength and I failed miserably. The only difference between now and then is that I take all my failures to the Lord, confessing and forgiving every conceivable sin I can see in myself, whether it's an evil thought, feeling or action. And over time I have learned the truth of this verse which says:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to CLEANSE US from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

I honestly think this is the only reason why I've been getting better at following the Lord. He's been cleaning my heart as He promised and I've just been witnessing the difference in myself. No more striving and trying, just being, forgiving, confessing and seeing Him do the work in me.

I'll sign off here and reply to your second comment separately.

 

[CG Didymus]

Which really means that you succeeded, as did I
In that we both proved to ourselves that the Scriptures are true when they say:

"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Romans 7:18-24

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Matthew 1:21

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Galatians 3:24-25

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

If I may just share quickly, I used to try and follow Jesus in my own strength and I failed miserably. The only difference between now and then is that I take all my failures to the Lord, confessing and forgiving every conceivable sin I can see in myself, whether it's an evil thought, feeling or action. And over time I have learned the truth of this verse which says:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to CLEANSE US from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

I honestly think this is the only reason why I've been getting better at following the Lord. He's been cleaning my heart as He promised and I've just been witnessing the difference in myself. No more striving and trying, just being, forgiving, confessing and seeing Him do the work in me.

I'll sign off here and reply to your second comment separately.

That last line is interesting..."If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to CLEANSE US from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9 I was raised Catholic and had to do the confession thing to do First Holy Communion. The "penance" was a few "Our Father's" and "Hail Mary's"? I didn't get a clean heart. I went out "sinned" some more, but I was only twelve. I was in my twenties in the 70's and got "saved" during the "Jesus Freak" movement at Calvary Chapel in Southern California. But, I wasn't "saved". I was observing. I was testing this Christian thing out, so when tests came my way, mostly pretty girls at the beach, I failed. But all my "Christian" friends were failing too, just not admitting it. So now for the last 40 years I've been questioning and learning a little about all religions. I like things about them all, but I know I will never live up to the standards of any of them. So good for you on being able to believe enough to try and obey what Jesus has commanded.

 

[JesusBeliever]

On the Sabbath, that must have been tough on Jewish converts to suddenly have Saturday be a "normal" day. I can see why the switch to Sunday, and not having to follow the Sabbath Laws, were good for the non-Jews, but still, it's a tough sell to say it's Biblical.

It would have absolutely been tough for the Jewish converts, I agree. But as for it being Biblical or not there are a couple of things that come to mind. The Feast Of Pentecost always fell on a Sunday. In the OT they were to count 7 Sabbaths (Saturdays) and then the day after the 7th Sabbath they celebrated the Feast of Pentecost (Lev 23:15-16) which was also known as the Firstfruits of Wheat Harvest. Note how many times these phrases are used in the NT in relation to Christ and His Followers. Here are just a few:

PENTECOST

Acts 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place....And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost...

FIRSTFRUITS

Romans 8:23 "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."

1 Corinthians 15:20 "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."

WHEAT

John 12:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."

John 16:7 Jesus said: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Ya know, every time I quote Scripture I always learn a little bit more myself that I didn't see before. What caught my eye in these verses is where it says "and become the firstfruits of them that slept".

Makes me wonder if this is an example of this verse:

Hebrews 10:1 "For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and NOT the very image of the things..."

IOW the Feast of Pentecost in the OT seems to foreshadow the firstfruits of them that slept aka the Resurrection from the Dead. Makes me look at the OT law in a whole new light.

 

[JesusBeliever]

That last line is interesting..."If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to CLEANSE US from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9 I was raised Catholic and had to do the confession thing to do First Holy Communion. The "penance" was a few "Our Father's" and "Hail Mary's"? I didn't get a clean heart. I went out "sinned" some more, but I was only twelve. I was in my twenties in the 70's and got "saved" during the "Jesus Freak" movement at Calvary Chapel in Southern California. But, I wasn't "saved". I was observing. I was testing this Christian thing out, so when tests came my way, mostly pretty girls at the beach, I failed. But all my "Christian" friends were failing too, just not admitting it. So now for the last 40 years I've been questioning and learning a little about all religions. I like things about them all, but I know I will never live up to the standards of any of them. So good for you on being able to believe enough to try and obey what Jesus has commanded.

I honestly don't think anyone can live up to the standards of Christianity except for Christ Himself. Well not perfectly any way. As quickly as I might see victory in one area of my life I see utter failure in another. Can be really disheartening. Our experiences are similar except I was 11 when we left the Catholic Church. Confession is one of the things that I appreciate learning from the Catholic Church and is something I've been practising a lot lately, except the only priest usually involved is Jesus (Hebrews 4:15) and I don't pray the Hail Mary (1 Timothy 2:5). On some occasions when a sin from my past has been haunting me with feelings of guilt and shame (usually ones I had forgotten about) I will confess it to someone I trust and ask them to pray with me (James 5:16). I just noticed a few other suggestions in James 5 that I haven't tried but I'm willing if necessary. Whatever it takes, I think it is worth it (Matthew 5:8)

 

[CG Didymus]

I honestly don't think anyone can live up to the standards of Christianity except for Christ Himself. Well not perfectly any way. As quickly as I might see victory in one area of my life I see utter failure in another. Can be really disheartening. Our experiences are similar except I was 11 when we left the Catholic Church. Confession is one of the things that I appreciate learning from the Catholic Church and is something I've been practising a lot lately, except the only priest usually involved is Jesus (Hebrews 4:15) and I don't pray the Hail Mary (1 Timothy 2:5). On some occasions when a sin from my past has been haunting me with feelings of guilt and shame (usually ones I had forgotten about) I will confess it to someone I trust and ask them to pray with me (James 5:16). I just noticed a few other suggestions in James 5 that I haven't tried but I'm willing if necessary. Whatever it takes, I think it is worth it (Matthew 5:8)

I still feel I'm walking with God... just in reverse.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (John 13:34-35)
Note the word “as” in verse 34. This “new command” is not to “love one another”. There is already a command in Jewish scripture to love one another. The newness of this command comes from Jesus being a paradigm, an example set as a model. This explains the word “as”. The verse is showing a similarity between “love one another” and Jesus. How do I know this? Simple, just using a process of deduction. Jewish scripture is complete. Nothing can be added or taken away. Jewish scripture already has a command to love one another.

And ' AS' Jesus loved us means having the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus had. Now, loving neighbor would mean loving ' more ' than loving self.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

..... So now for the last 40 years I've been questioning and learning a little about all religions. I like things about them all, but I know I will never live up to the standards of any of them.

None of us can live up to Bible standards because we inherited human imperfection from father Adam.- Romans 5:12
So, that is why Jesus enters into the picture and covers our inherited adamic sinful imperfection - 1 John 1:7 B
It is when we deliberately, intentionally, purposely, willfully practice sin that we could end up Not forgiven. - Hebrews 10:26; Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6; Psalms 92:7

 

[metis]

If one has a concordance, look up the word "forgive" and its variations, and then see what the verses say in the Tanakh. What rather clearly shows is that God can and will forgive us, and roughly 2/3 of the verses do not refer to the Temple sacrifices.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"Self-sacrificing love" is also found in Torah. Most of the sages believe that the issues of compassion and justice for others is paramount to the point of believing that this may be the main purpose of Torah in the first place. Therefore, Jesus' commandment was really not "New" at all, and the "Sermon On the Mount" is basically spot-on Jewish prose, for example.

Love neighbor as self - Leviticus 1:18 B. Love neighbor 'more' than self - John 13:34-35

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If one has a concordance, look up the word "forgive" and its variations, and then see what the verses say in the Tanakh. What rather clearly shows is that God can and will forgive us, and roughly 2/3 of the verses do not refer to the Temple sacrifices.

Is foregivenss required for those who wilfully practice malicious sins with No remorse or No repentance - Psalms 139:21-22; Hebrews 10:26-28; Hebrews 10:29-31

 

[metis]

Love neighbor as self - Leviticus 1:18 B. Love neighbor 'more' than self - John 13:34-35

And this is also found in the Tanakh since the sacrifice of self for the betterment of all is highly praised.

 

[metis]

Is foregivenss required for those who wilfully practice malicious sins with No remorse or No repentance - Psalms 139:21-22; Hebrews 10:26-28; Hebrews 10:29-31

I'm not certain what you mean by the above but the Tanakh makes it clear that God forgives-- period. There's no list of sins whereas it says He doesn't, at least that I'm aware of. In Christianity there is-- blasphemy against the H.S.

What makes sense to me is to go through through these three simple steps:
1.try not to sin.
2.if we sin, try our best to undo the damage we've done.
3.ask God for forgiveness-- and mean it.

 

[roger1440]

And ' AS' Jesus loved us means having the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus had. Now, loving neighbor would mean loving ' more ' than loving self.

And when we have compassion for our fellow man, isn't it self sacrificing? Not just feeling sorry for some poor sap, but getting off our rear end and helping him.

 

[roger1440]

What was the very first sin after the fall? Cain killed Abel. After the murder God asks Cain, "where is your brother?". Sarcastically Cain answers with, "yo dude, it ain't my day to watch him". The point is, we are our brother's keeper.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'm not certain what you mean by the above but the Tanakh makes it clear that God forgives-- period. There's no list of sins whereas it says He doesn't, at least that I'm aware of. In Christianity there is-- blasphemy against the H.S.
What makes sense to me is to go through through these three simple steps:
1.try not to sin.
2.if we sin, try our best to undo the damage we've done.
3.ask God for forgiveness-- and mean it.

Yes, agree with with three simple steps listed ^above^. - 2 Peter 3:9
Please keep in mind John 3:13 for according to Jesus' teachings No one had ascended to heaven.
That would include King David, and John the Baptizer - Acts of the Apostles 2:34; Matthew 11:11
So, in other words, ALL who died before Jesus' died were offered an earthly hope. Heaven for those of Luke 22:28-30
God's promise to father Abraham was an earthly promise - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18
All families of Earth will be blessed. All nations of Earth will be blessed. Blessed through Christ with the benefit of healing for earth's nations - Revelation 22:2
That healing means perfect health on Earth and No more death on Earth ever again - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8; Isaiah 33:24
Romans 6:7 is quite plain. One's death frees or acquits a person. So, in that sense God forgives. Forgives through Christ.
Being freed or acquitted from sin does Not automatically make a person as innocent, but as a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges do Not stick, Jesus can pardon a person so the sin charges do Not stick. When freed or acquitted from a crime/sin then one can Not be tried again. That would be double jeopardy.
Since we can Not resurrect oneself or another, then we need someone who can do that for us. Jesus as Messiah can and will resurrect the dead - Revelation 1:18
So, the Tanakh covers those who died before Jesus died - John 3:13
The unforgivable sin is in connection to Christ - Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6

 

[idea]

The original 10 commandments (the ones on the broken tablets) contained a higher law . They were broken because that group of people were not able to hold up the higher law, so they had to be given the lower law. The higher order of the 10 commandments was shared in the sermon on the mount...