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Are the 10 Commandments as a whole valid today?

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
The 10 commandments do reflect the nature of God and so that would be one sense they are valid today Children who 'obey their prarents' are reminded even today this is the first commandment with a promise.
In another covenant sense the 10 commandments are a preamble and summary of the whole law
and in another sense the spirit of the law is valid but we do not 'earn salvation by trying to perfectly keep it' but we should learn from and
follow 'the spirit of the law' appropriately

Timothy says the law is a tutor leading us to Christ, showing our need, but after being led there and walking in covenant we still say with Ps 119 'Oh How I love your Law'
and follow the spirit of the law being changed to love God and our neighbor.... but that is fruit and not root...

 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Sorry, but the scriptures have been tested long before you were born.

You are a "johnny-come-lately"
That is a strange thing to say. Every religion, or even a sect of the same religion, has to make changes and adapt to the new situation. They find a way to nullify what went before them. They can say the previous religion was totally wrong, or partially right, or do as Christians do and say Judaism was totally right, but we don't have to follow it anymore, because God changed the rules. But Christians aren't the only ones that have done this. Islam believes in the Bible, but they don't follow it. Baha'is believe all the religions came from the same God, yet don't follow the rules of any of them. They have their own set of rules, from God, for today. So anything Jesus, or Paul, said... is outdated. I'm sure you don't believe them. But, why should a Jew believe you?
 

arthra

Baha'i
Baha'is believe all the religions came from the same God, yet don't follow the rules of any of them. They have their own set of rules, from God, for today.

I would agree that Baha'is believe the world religions have the same Divine Origin. We accept that the spiritual teachings are essentially one but that the laws and ordinances can vary as they appeared in varying cultures and had social challenges that were unique for their times. There are laws we follow that are essentially similar however to the laws of previous dispensations. The following I think illustrates how ordinances can change from dispensation to dispensation:

"In the Torah there are many commands concerning the punishment of a murderer. It would not be allowable or possible to carry out these ordinances today. Human conditions and exigencies are such that even the question of capital punishment, -- the one penalty which most nations have continued to enforce for murder, -- is now under discussion by wise men who are debating its advisability. In fact, laws for the ordinary conditions of life are only valid temporarily. ..... Time changes conditions, and laws change to suit conditions. We must remember that these changing laws are not the essentials; they are the accidentals of religion. The essential ordinances established by a Manifestation of God are spiritual; they concern moralities, the ethical development of man and faith in God."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith , p. 274
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I would agree that Baha'is believe the world religions have the same Divine Origin. We accept that the spiritual teachings are essentially one but that the laws and ordinances can vary as they appeared in varying cultures and had social challenges that were unique for their times. There are laws we follow that are essentially similar however to the laws of previous dispensations. The following I think illustrates how ordinances can change from dispensation to dispensation:

"In the Torah there are many commands concerning the punishment of a murderer. It would not be allowable or possible to carry out these ordinances today. Human conditions and exigencies are such that even the question of capital punishment, -- the one penalty which most nations have continued to enforce for murder, -- is now under discussion by wise men who are debating its advisability. In fact, laws for the ordinary conditions of life are only valid temporarily. ..... Time changes conditions, and laws change to suit conditions. We must remember that these changing laws are not the essentials; they are the accidentals of religion. The essential ordinances established by a Manifestation of God are spiritual; they concern moralities, the ethical development of man and faith in God."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith , p. 274
Hi there Arthra,
The difficulty for "literalist" Christians is that they have to believe everything in what they call the "OT" is perfect, inerrant and infallible. So the question is: Are the laws in the OT from God? And, how long did God expect them to keep following His Law? Another question is: Did Jesus abolish the Law? Did he only say to keep the Ten Commandments? For me, when there are laws like the one about not mixing fabrics, then it is hard for me to believe it came from God and not man. But, Christians don't say that. Through Paul, they say changed the rules. They say that things like the dietary laws and getting circumcised essentially don't matter. Since those laws don't get a person saved, why burden new converts with Laws that don't matter?

But Christians do follow some of the Laws from the OT, so who determines which ones are still meant to be obeyed? The apostles? The church fathers? The church? Then, which "church"? The dominant Christian church, the one and only "true" church for 1500 years, the Roman Catholics? The early popes were "inspired" by God weren't they? So what they said was the "New Law" sent from God, right? A protestant would have to say "no" I'd suspect. So how about the early church fathers? They new exactly what God wanted them to do, right? I would hope so, since they helped point the way to which letters and stories about Jesus were "inspired" and which ones weren't. So then with the NT as their guide, a Christian could easily see what they need to do to follow the "Commands" of Jesus.

But, it isn't easy. And now 2000 years later, does Christianity have it all together? No. Christians are still trying to figure out what they should and shouldn't do. It's been an ongoing process. I wonder, do they have it right yet? Obviously not. But when it comes to Laws so basic as the Ten Commandments, I'd say yeah, don't lie, don't mess with other peoples spouses and property, love God and all the others... and about the Sabbath? What would have been the big deal if the early Christians would have gathered on Saturday instead of Sunday? And then, try and come up with excuses why they don't.
 

arthra

Baha'i
Thanks for your post Didymus.. I agree with your general description of the situation.

At least in the case of the Baha'i Faith we've had a continuation of guidance from the beginning.. that is a continuation of direction from the original sources of revelation in our Faith to guidance as to how the various laws and ordinances will be carried out.

So it would be as if a clear line of inspiration from the beginning to the present day in a Divine Revelation. It would be as if Jesus had passed His mantle to His brother James who as you know was the head of the church in Jerusalem to the later apostles who in turn carried out the various laws and ordinances approved for Christianity.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
How can that be?

Colossians 2: 14-17 - one of the commandments was nailed to the cross.....

Nitpicking are we? I believe it says "ordinances" and that should cover everything. However it has not gone away. It is nailed to the cross for all to see like the sign over Jesus saying He is King of the Jews.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
What is non-sense is your lack of an appropriate rebuttal...

I believe you need to ask him why he thinks it is nonsense if you wish to draw it out of him. As for me I haven't heard about any testing. Is that an RC thing?
 

JesusBeliever

Active Member
The answer is no (Ephesians 2: 14-16), but 9 of the 10 were carried over into the New Testament.
Sorry if this has already been shared. But I suppose there's no harm in a reminder if it has:

Romans 13:9-10 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. LOVE worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore LOVE is the FULFILLING OF THE LAW.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Sorry if this has already been shared. But I suppose there's no harm in a reminder if it has:
Romans 13:9-10 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. LOVE worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore LOVE is the FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Don't be sorry, a good reminder on RF. And the ^ above ^ goes along nicely with Jesus' New commandment to have self-sacrificing love for others as he has - John 13:34-35
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
A reminder that "the Law" is a reference to not just 10 but to 613 Commandments as what's found in the Torah.

Exactly right, besides the first 10, there is a number 11,12,13,14,15, etc. + all the way up to 613 commandments. Jesus, according to Romans 10:4, fulfilled that whole Law.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Exactly right, besides the first 10, there is a number 11,12,13,14,15, etc. + all the way up to 613 commandments. Jesus, according to Romans 10:4, fulfilled that whole Law.
What do you mean by "fulfilled"? Lots of Christians seem to act as if that means the Law is no longer necessary. And for Christians, why should it they? They separated themselves from Judaism and have their own thing going. But, did Jesus "fulfill" do not steal in a way that you don't have to follow this Jewish Law? Did he "fulfill" do not commit adultery? Did he "fulfill" love thy neighbor as thy self? Or, does Jesus expect you to obey these Jewish Laws? I think He does. So Christians only dumped the Laws they didn't like. The Laws they say came from the same God they say they believe in. The God they say is the same today, yesterday and forever... just not His Laws? So how are Christians different than most other people? We all pick and choose what the truth is and what "Laws" are relevant... and then make excuses why we don't believe in the rest.
 
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