Are the 10 Commandments as a whole valid today?

[Desert Snake]

That is such a good point. But, which came first? The so-called OT. Did God write it or man? For a Christian, they have to say, "God" don't they? But then, who wrote the NT? God inspired people? Well let's see? Does it match up with the only "God's Word" they had at the time... the Jewish Scriptures. I can see why, many reasons why, a Jew would not accept the NT as being from God. However, after Christians made the letters from Paul and the others, along with the "gospels" the latest and newest Word of God... kind of like version 2.0 of God's Word, then I can see why Christians believe what they do. The new updates replaced the old version. Like the parable says... You don't put old software into new computers.

So was the old software wrong? No, just old and slow and not very easy to work with. The new software is so user friendly... believe and go. No page after page of useless commands to do. But some people are old school. They're dinosaurs and don't want to change... until the new system proves itself. So are there "bugs" in the new system? Yes, there's a lot of bugs.

Some mythists, /or religious people, depending on predilection,, might say that Christianity is the obviously 'older' religious paradigm portrayal, with more than one deity portrayal,/or aspect, as in Xianity,, man form deity, ''relational'' context of deity forms, and some other things. As far as compilation of texts, both religions utilize partly, the same texts, /with different interpretation and book relevance per context; with Xianity having the added books, as well. Even without the 'New Testament'', the theological and general religious paradigms are different. Take away the New Testament from traditional /or many of them,, Jesus adherence, or ''Christianity'', in it's forms, and it's still a very different religion. There are parallels because of the geography, and religio-cultural background of some of the religious adherence aspects, but there are also differences that are pretty much obvious, despite what ''books'' one might adhere to, or connect to their beliefs.

 

[metis]

I believe you are saying when God speaks to Jews He is right but when He speaks to Christians He is wrong.

Never said nor implied that, and I have no clue how you got that from what I've been posting.

BTW, you might want to check my signature at the bottom of this post to see where I'm coming from in general, and it certainly ain't what you're suggesting.

 

[CG Didymus]

Never said nor implied that, and I have no clue how you got that from what I've been posting.

BTW, you might want to check my signature at the bottom of this post to see where I'm coming from in general, and it certainly ain't what you're suggesting.

This thread can't end like this. You got anything controversial you can throw in here? I love to hear Christians wiggle out of things the Bible says.

And then of course, they say, "It's all God's Word and it's all true." "Then why don't you believe it? "I do believe, but you see, there's a thing called progressive revelation. God changes his message over time." "So when God spoke to Muhammad, he was changing what he said in the NT?" "No sir. The NT is the final, complete message from God. You can't take away or add to it." "But doesn't it say you can't take away or add to Jewish side of the Bible too?" "Well, technically no, but you see that was the old covenant. Now we have the new covenant. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and brought in the new. So we didn't change it. Jesus did." "And that's Ok? It's ok for the messiah to change what God said to do?" "Well yes, he speaks for God. He in fact is God." "So God gave commandments. Jesus gave commandments. Most of the ones from God we don't need. So why did he put the poor Jews into a situation to where they thought they had to obey his commands, but in the long run,, they didn't really have to?" "He wanted them to try. That way when they failed, they'd know they can't do it on there own." "But isn't it part of Jewish beliefs to put their trust in God and do as he commanded?" "Listen, there's my wife. I got to go. I'll pray for you." "Gee, thanks."

I hope some Christians come back to comment. I like this thread. Take care Metis.

 

[metis]

This thread can't end like this. You got anything controversial you can throw in here? I love to hear Christians wiggle out of things the Bible says.

And then of course, they say, "It's all God's Word and it's all true." "Then why don't you believe it? "I do believe, but you see, there's a thing called progressive revelation. God changes his message over time." "So when God spoke to Muhammad, he was changing what he said in the NT?" "No sir. The NT is the final, complete message from God. You can't take away or add to it." "But doesn't it say you can't take away or add to Jewish side of the Bible too?" "Well, technically no, but you see that was the old covenant. Now we have the new covenant. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and brought in the new. So we didn't change it. Jesus did." "And that's Ok? It's ok for the messiah to change what God said to do?" "Well yes, he speaks for God. He in fact is God." "So God gave commandments. Jesus gave commandments. Most of the ones from God we don't need. So why did he put the poor Jews into a situation to where they thought they had to obey his commands, but in the long run,, they didn't really have to?" "He wanted them to try. That way when they failed, they'd know they can't do it on there own." "But isn't it part of Jewish beliefs to put their trust in God and do as he commanded?" "Listen, there's my wife. I got to go. I'll pray for you." "Gee, thanks."

I hope some Christians come back to comment. I like this thread. Take care Metis.

Thanks a lot for the above, and you take care as well. I really won't add much to what I have already posted because my "theology" is so loosey-goosey. To me, it's more of what a person does than what doctrines they may believe in that I regard by far to be most important. IOW, if they're compassionate and fair to all, then I couldn't care less which place of worship they may walk in to. Ya, I'll debate some points periodically, but that's all just window dressing to me.

Have a great weekend.

 

[Animore]

I do realize this is a very popular post with many replies. I'll just give my answer and be on my way.

In a Christian perspective, the Ten Commandments should be kept with consideration because it shows the sin in man. It shows that we only survive through grace alone through faith alone through Christ alone.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In a Christian perspective, the Ten Commandments should be kept with consideration because it shows the sin in man. It shows that we only survive through grace alone through faith alone through Christ alone.

Not all of us are sinners, and not everyone buys into this damnation/redemption thing. The 10 Commandments, to me, are things that you just should not have to have a book to tell you to not do (such as stealing and killing), things that are absurd (such as restrictions on adultery), or things that are not proper, such as commanding that a child respect and honor their parents rather than commanding the parents to earn that honor and respect.

 

[Animore]

Not all of us are sinners, and not everyone buys into this damnation/redemption thing. The 10 Commandments, to me, are things that you just should not have to have a book to tell you to not do (such as stealing and killing), things that are absurd (such as restrictions on adultery), or things that are not proper, such as commanding that a child respect and honor their parents rather than commanding the parents to earn that honor and respect.

Well, it should go without saying that Christians interpret this differently. Let's start with:

are things that you just should not have to have a book to tell you to not do (such as stealing and killing),

Well, it's not obvious to the people who are contributing to murder, a crime that is committed quite a bit, I'd say. I mean, have ya checked the news lately?

things that are absurd (such as restrictions on adultery),

Christians, quite obviously, believe that adultery and fornication ruin the covenant of marriage.
We believe that marriage exists to show the bond between partners, and to keep a Godly relationship Godly.

or things that are not proper, such as commanding that a child respect and honor their parents rather than commanding the parents to earn that honor and respect.

Well, there's several verses in the Bible that the parents should respect their children as well as growing human beings.

Especially this verse:

Ephesians 6:1-4: Children, be obedient to your parents in union with [the] Lord, for this is righteous. 2 Honor your father and [your] mother, which is the first command with a promise. 3 That it may go well with you and you may endure a long time on the earth. 4 And you fathers, do not be irritating [be inconsistent] your children, but go on bringing them up in the discipline and mental-regulating of Jehovah.

 

[VioletVortex]

As a whole? No, because many are and always were completely invalid. There are a few that I would agree with as general rules, but they are not applicable in every situation.

 

[CG Didymus]

Well, it should go without saying that Christians interpret this differently. Let's start with:



Well, it's not obvious to the people who are contributing to murder, a crime that is committed quite a bit, I'd say. I mean, have ya checked the news lately?



Christians, quite obviously, believe that adultery and fornication ruin the covenant of marriage.
We believe that marriage exists to show the bond between partners, and to keep a Godly relationship Godly.



Well, there's several verses in the Bible that the parents should respect their children as well as growing human beings.

Especially this verse:

Ephesians 6:1-4: Children, be obedient to your parents in union with [the] Lord, for this is righteous. 2 Honor your father and [your] mother, which is the first command with a promise. 3 That it may go well with you and you may endure a long time on the earth. 4 And you fathers, do not be irritating [be inconsistent] your children, but go on bringing them up in the discipline and mental-regulating of Jehovah.

Let's talk about murder. God, "Don't murder" God, "Draw your sword and kill the Hebrew man next to you." God, "Abraham, go kill your son and burn him up." God, "go into the city and kill all the men, women and children. Oh, and there animals too." So how is this God different than any other tribal god that is telling his people to go kill his enemies? Problem is those gods aren't real. The people made up their own concepts of what they need their gods to be. What if the Hebrews did the same? Who made up the other major religions? Their God? Or, did they make up a God to fit their concept of reality? Concepts that fit their culture. You know, men are number one. Our people are the only good ones, everyone else is evil and must die. Concepts that helped ancient people survive and build a society. Some good stuff. Some good spiritual stuff. Some very outdated stupid stuff, including Christianity.

Oh, talking about stupid stuff let's talk about sex. "Don't commit adultery." God's solution? Stone them. But what about within marriage? Did God allow married couples to experiment? To do things and try things that made each other feel good? Hmmm? Lots of things feel good. Ooh, what about other couples joining in? Ooh, what about a couple of girls kind of doing things with each other? People, including Christians, break the rules. Society has had to stop being hypocritical. It's tough for born-again believers to stop. They have to act as if they follow the Bible rules, but many don't. And all of us know they don't follow the rules, including big time Christian leaders... sorry, but a real witness breaker. Don't teach it, don't preach it, if you can't yourself keep it. To the one non-married virgin Christian... Why? How do you do it? Or, don't do it? I lasted like 2 months as a Christian virgin and exploded. So I understand why even Christians have sex with friends, family, married people, themselves, the internet, or going old school and using magazines. But, most can't or won't admit it. So, they are hypocrites. And, we all know they are. Yet, we are expected to respect the things they say about God and Jesus? No, if you can't live it, don't push on me. And, you know that other Christian religion, the one that had men live with men and women with women... yeah, how did that work?

 

[Muffled]

That is such a good point. But, which came first? The so-called OT. Did God write it or man? For a Christian, they have to say, "God" don't they? But then, who wrote the NT? God inspired people? Well let's see? Does it match up with the only "God's Word" they had at the time... the Jewish Scriptures. I can see why, many reasons why, a Jew would not accept the NT as being from God. However, after Christians made the letters from Paul and the others, along with the "gospels" the latest and newest Word of God... kind of like version 2.0 of God's Word, then I can see why Christians believe what they do. The new updates replaced the old version. Like the parable says... You don't put old software into new computers.

So was the old software wrong? No, just old and slow and not very easy to work with. The new software is so user friendly... believe and go. No page after page of useless commands to do. But some people are old school. They're dinosaurs and don't want to change... until the new system proves itself. So are there "bugs" in the new system? Yes, there's a lot of bugs.

So when people checked the OT, and it says not to do something but the new system, the NT, says "yes, do it"? What do you do? Both can't be right? Either the old system of beliefs is right. Or the new system has to show why the old one was "right" for then, but not for now.

Does the new system work? Can 1000 sects and denominations be wrong? Yes, I mean No, it does work... in a way. Especially when you upgrade to version 7.0... the new improved version of Christian beliefs. And they say God is the same yesterday, today and forever? He doesn't even have the same commands from millennium to the next. Sure dump the Laws, but tell me what "commands" do I need to believe and follow as a Christian? Call me when you get it all figured out. Or, better yet, send a pop-up when updates are available. You know, isn't that what the Jews did? They clicked on the updates from God, and read the terms and conditions of Christianity. Hmmm? Jesus is the Messiah, Jesus is God, no more Law, etc, etc? Then, after reading the terms and conditions, they clicked "Don't agree".

I believe the reason they stopped listening to God was that they had replaced Him with the law. God did't set up the law to be an idol but simply to help those who found it difficult or scary to listen to God. Now having Jesus (God in the flesh) who laid down his life for us, God is not scary any more but no doubt there are still some who have trouble listening to God and need the law.

 

[Muffled]

As a whole? No, because many are and always were completely invalid. There are a few that I would agree with as general rules, but they are not applicable in every situation.

If you have to agree with them then they aren't God's rules they are your rules and you have set yourself up as an anti-Christ and your own god.

 

[Muffled]

Never said nor implied that, and I have no clue how you got that from what I've been posting.

BTW, you might want to check my signature at the bottom of this post to see where I'm coming from in general, and it certainly ain't what you're suggesting.

I believe I have misread you and apologize.

Perhaps you have a point. However Jesus did say He was there for the Jews first and then the gentiles.

 

[metis]

I believe I have misread you and apologize.

Perhaps you have a point. However Jesus did say He was there for the Jews first and then the gentiles.

No worries on the first line, so thanks.

As to the 2nd, there are conflicting verses on that so I'm not certain either way. This is not that unusual, btw, as we see other such "variations" with some other verses. However, in some way I do believe it's likely that Jesus in some way "opened the door" for proselytizing gentiles, maybe especially for the "God-Fearers" that hung around the Temple and believed in "the God of Abraham".

 

[WALL]

Sorry if this has already been shared. But I suppose there's no harm in a reminder if it has:

Romans 13:9-10 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. LOVE worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore LOVE is the FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

OK. Your tryin to tell me we need not keep Gods 10 commandments because we are givin a new testament commandment “to love one another”. Problem is the new testament scriptures tell us how to “love one another”.

1JOHN 5 [2] By this WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

To love the children of God, we are to keep the commandments

2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] And THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Love one another. Keep the commandments

JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

ROMANS 13 [8] Owe no man any thing, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.[9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, Thou shalt not bear false witness, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I decided to show the scripture of James 2 and Romans 13 which explain to us how we are to show our love for one another because im sure the next thing i hear is that it is not the 10 commandments being mentioned. But as you can see in these scriptures, adultry killing, stealing, bearing false witness, covetness are mentioned. And i suppose i will hear you say that since the “keeping of the sabbath” is not mentioned or “thou shalt have no other gods before me" is not mentioned these commandments can be ignored.

 

[WALL]

God is not scary any more but no doubt there are still some who have trouble listening to God and need the law.

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

OK. So what does our Redeemer say about keeping the 10 commandments? Are you listening to Him?

 

[CG Didymus]

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

OK. So what does our Redeemer say about keeping the 10 commandments? Are you listening to Him?

Was the Hebrew Law ever just the Ten? But to me the Law really seems like it was written and meant for the tribal people back a few thousand years ago. Now Jesus' commandments like turn the other cheek, don't lust or you've committed adultery, love your enemies, I don't think are kept very well... if at all. So why not? I think most Christians don't care or even try or don't even know what Jesus' commandments even are.

 

[Desert Snake]

This thread can't end like this. You got anything controversial you can throw in here? I love to hear Christians wiggle out of things the Bible says.

And then of course, they say, "It's all God's Word and it's all true." "Then why don't you believe it? "I do believe, but you see, there's a thing called progressive revelation. God changes his message over time." "So when God spoke to Muhammad, he was changing what he said in the NT?" "No sir. The NT is the final, complete message from God. You can't take away or add to it." "But doesn't it say you can't take away or add to Jewish side of the Bible too?" "Well, technically no, but you see that was the old covenant. Now we have the new covenant. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and brought in the new. So we didn't change it. Jesus did." "And that's Ok? It's ok for the messiah to change what God said to do?" "Well yes, he speaks for God. He in fact is God." "So God gave commandments. Jesus gave commandments. Most of the ones from God we don't need. So why did he put the poor Jews into a situation to where they thought they had to obey his commands, but in the long run,, they didn't really have to?" "He wanted them to try. That way when they failed, they'd know they can't do it on there own." "But isn't it part of Jewish beliefs to put their trust in God and do as he commanded?" "Listen, there's my wife. I got to go. I'll pray for you." "Gee, thanks."

I hope some Christians come back to comment. I like this thread. Take care Metis.

Yes, the Messiah can change the laws, or modify them, with divine authority. Now that being said, Jesus is not merely ''a Messiah'', /that's the religious context even if you don't believe it/aren't a Christian.
He's a Deity. So, yes, definitely, He can change the laws/
He redacted some, and modified others, and some laws were not actually applicable to Xians in the first place, because they were culture specific as opposed to religion specific. The Great apostle Paul and his fellow Disciples explain much of this, in Scripture.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, the Messiah can change the laws, or modify them, with divine authority. Now that being said, Jesus is not merely ''a Messiah'', /that's the religious context even if you don't believe it/aren't a Christian.
He's a Deity. So, yes, definitely, He can change the laws/
He redacted some, and modified others, and some laws were not actually applicable to Xians in the first place, because they were culture specific as opposed to religion specific. The Great apostle Paul and his fellow Disciples explain much of this, in Scripture.

Of course the problem is what do you do with the Sabbath? Did God/Jesus give this commandment? Then, where did Jesus put an end to it? And, like I've mentioned before, if it wasn't all that important, I sure would have hated to be the last person stoned to death for breaking it. But, as a Messianic, do you keep the Sabbath?

 

[Desert Snake]

Of course the problem is what do you do with the Sabbath? Did God/Jesus give this commandment? Then, where did Jesus put an end to it? And, like I've mentioned before, if it wasn't all that important, I sure would have hated to be the last person stoned to death for breaking it. But, as a Messianic, do you keep the Sabbath?

I actually don't really observe the sabbath in any strict manner. I think arguments can be made both ways, so...it's subjective? The Bible is subjetive, because of interpretations, however, we can think that we have the correct interpretation. Some things are ''less'' interpretive than others, of course.
so, 'my'answer is, dunno, do what you want concerning the Sabbath.

 

[psychoslice]

I personally don't need the ten commandments tired around my neck, I simply do that which is right in my heart, I don't need some god telling me how I should do that, maybe if you don't think you can do right, then there for you.