Are there single fathers, who never married, with children in the West?

[paarsurrey]

Could you please rephrase the question then? Perhaps I am misunderstanding it. Are you asking if I approve of how men are treated or how women are treated? The wording has me slightly flummoxed.

How women are treated by the men who make love with them? Please
Regards

 

[JoStories]

In the current case, women have power over men. A woman can kill a man's child without his consent. Or she can bring his unwanted child into the world and make him pay for it for the next 18-22 years.

What I'm saying is, if a woman doesn't want to carry a child for 9-10 months, then maybe she shouldn't lie down with a man. She made the choice. That baby belongs just as much to the father as it does to her. Women want to have their cake and eat it too. If you want to argue that it's solely the woman's choice, then the man should be able to relinquish all rights and responsibility regardless of the woman's choice to bring that unwanted child into the world, just as the woman relinquishes all responsibility when she chooses not to bring a wanted child into the world.

In your first remark, if you are speaking of abortion, yes, women have the right to abort a fetus. That fetus is NOT a child, by law, until it draws breath. And if the man is stupid enough to not use a condom or be certain, without any doubt, that the women has birth control, he deserves to pay for the child, if it is born. I see that you are Muslim and that, I assume, means your faith holds these beliefs, which is fine btw, but in this country, abortion is legal.

In your second remark, you are placing all the blame on the woman. Why so dark an opinion of women? Is that based on your faith as well? And again, btw, the man should either wear a condom or make sure the woman is using BC. Again your opinion seems based on an antiquated view of women as being chattel. We are not. You are free to believe you are chattel based on your faith but in this time now, women have the right to abort. Nor are we chattel and I personally will never be.

 

[JoStories]

Okay, hot potato for you--
Depends on what kind of rape it is.

What kind of rape? Are you serious here? Rape is rape. As a survivor of that, and since my daughter was also raped, at the ripe old age of 8, I cannot fathom a person saying such a reprehensible remark. This is quite possibly, the most disgusting remark I have ever read on this forum.

 

[JoStories]

I haven't lost any "femininity". You are being absurd.

I, too, Draka, was in the military and served during Viet Nam. I am a nurse and served on the USS Sanctuary. First of all, thank you for your service. I have a very dear friend who served during the war with Iraq and she was a mechanic, and one of the most feminine women I know. Mr. Evans view of women, at least for me, is incomprehensible, not to mention offensive in the extreme.

 

[JoStories]

You're up against millions of years of evolution.
I'm absolutely for the unusual guy who wants to do child care to have the freedom. And we definitely could do better at NOT reinforcing the instincts. But I don't think men, as a group, are going to get into child care the way women as a group do.
Tom

You would be wrong. My cousin and his husband have adopted two beautiful children and my cousin is the stay at home 'mom'. He is very nurturing and is a great parent.

 

[JoStories]

The subject here is irresponsible procreation.
But the fact remains that your post is flat out wrong. Two virgins having homosex, using condoms if male, are as disease proof as an elderly married heterosexual couple.
Tom

Exactly Tom. I have never had an STD in my life and I, too, am gay. Mr. Evans views and opinions are hogwash.

 

[JoStories]

not normal though Tom is it, I mean, come on... stop making out it is quite normal with no repercussions. The mental problems alone should make you pause for thought.

What mental problems? And provide proof of this ridiculous statement or admit it is total horse pucky.

 

[JoStories]

Apparently he finds it shameful for a woman to be just as good as a man in a male dominated field. Some men seem to feel threatened when a woman can be successful doing what they thought was their thing. I encountered this a lot in my life.

Precisely. My best friend was a steel worker, doing the stuff way up in tall buildings and such. My sister is an architect. And I, too, crochet, paint, and so on. This idea that women are consigned to a particular role is stupid.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I also like to watch movies, play video games, watch football occasionally, and I'm getting back into archery. A person can have a wide range of interests and education and it means diddly squat about their "femininity" or "masculinity".

"archery"!! There we go again. Its always something to do with killing and power with you isn't it
Personally I don't like the western idea of women now that they have to pretend to be men. I preferred it better when they were women, real women.

 

[Robert.Evans]

If all men, all, became a little more feminine there would be a lot less war. But I am not holding my breath.
Again, we're up against evolution.
Tom

But all men would only be the west. Hard to imagine the middle east joining in. So what then? sounds like a fantasy to me, bit too effeminate.
Your not gay by any chance are you

 

[Robert.Evans]

One could do all these things, if one is interested; what is there to be shameful for?
Regards

Not valuing oneself as a woman and only by what men do, as I said.
Perhaps you don't value women as women, feminine, perhaps you only value men so expect them to be the same.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Apparently he finds it shameful for a woman to be just as good as a man in a male dominated field. Some men seem to feel threatened when a woman can be successful doing what they thought was their thing. I encountered this a lot in my life.

You see, the very fact that your idea is that a woman has to be as good as a man in a man's role says much.
Threatened? Perhaps so. You will become more masculine, therefore more violent, more aggressive, more likely to fight, and more likely to take jobs of men; which in turn will create strife with less jobs, women more tired when they come home, more arguments and fights, and more break up of the family. So threatened? Perhaps so. But don't try to shame my "male pride" if that is what you are thinking, cause it aint gonna happen.

You don't seem to value your own worth until you are doing what men do. And the fact that you found a lot who did not like you being there might have given you reason to pause, if you cared about men that is.

 

[Robert.Evans]

You know what's natural? Kids having babies when they're 12-14, with almost anybody.
We've developed social structure encouraging people to wait a bit, and pick someone for a permanent relationship. But the world has changed a lot since that became normal. Each child, properly raised, is a much bigger investment. And there are now over 7,000,000,000 of us, we could do with less. So while people are still programmed for sex, especially the young, we'd be better off with less procreation. Things are different now. Homosex is the moral option under many circumstances.

I don't think we need less people but we might get problems with more. Yes less children might help, but sodomy is not the answer. And that is why women are pushed towards jobs now to fill their minds with egotistical ideas and not about family.
It does beg the question though, assuming that there is no massive war or disease etc, what will happen. china have now just stopped their one child to one family. So what will happen there? Perhaps population growth will stop when people can't afford to have them. But we will certainly have to have a different financial system then as this one relies on kids to prop up those above later in life.

What repercussions? In a world where having gay sex wasn't a huge social disaster there would be no repercussions,

but it was though wasn't it.

other than a drop in dreadful parenting.
You are still confusing the mental problems caused by homophobia with any caused by homosexual behavior.
Tom

I am not confusing anything. Gays have more mental problems, more disease, HIV, assaults of their own, and more promiscuousness.

 

[Robert.Evans]

He is good at being a dad, he has custody of four kids. He makes sure that they are fed and clean and go to school and such. But I am very afraid that the kids are learning horrible "relationship skills".
What are they learning when their father changes wives like other people buy used cars?

Good point, but teaching that homosxuailty is okay is also not teaching the right thing.

 

[Robert.Evans]

In your first remark, if you are speaking of abortion, yes, women have the right to abort a fetus. That fetus is NOT a child, by law, until it draws breath. And if the man is stupid enough to not use a condom or be certain, without any doubt, that the women has birth control, he deserves to pay for the child, if it is born. I see that you are Muslim and that, I assume, means your faith holds these beliefs, which is fine btw, but in this country, abortion is legal.

In your second remark, you are placing all the blame on the woman. Why so dark an opinion of women? Is that based on your faith as well? And again, btw, the man should either wear a condom or make sure the woman is using BC. Again your opinion seems based on an antiquated view of women as being chattel. We are not. You are free to believe you are chattel based on your faith but in this time now, women have the right to abort. Nor are we chattel and I personally will never be.

It is unfair to say that she might have a low opinion of herself when I think the opposite is true. She has the confidence to take some of the blame on her own genda. All you do is defend all the time.

 

[Robert.Evans]

What kind of rape? Are you serious here? Rape is rape. As a survivor of that, and since my daughter was also raped, at the ripe old age of 8, I cannot fathom a person saying such a reprehensible remark. This is quite possibly, the most disgusting remark I have ever read on this forum.

So a women constantly nagging a man till he complies, is that rape? Or do you need to change the genders? Man nags woman until she does. She doesn't want to, but complies, is that rape?
If it is, how is that the same as gang rape, for example?

 

[Robert.Evans]

What kind of rape? Are you serious here? Rape is rape. As a survivor of that, and since my daughter was also raped, at the ripe old age of 8, I cannot fathom a person saying such a reprehensible remark. This is quite possibly, the most disgusting remark I have ever read on this forum.

And do you want to talk about he rape of your daughter?

 

[Robert.Evans]

I, too, Draka, was in the military and served during Viet Nam. I am a nurse and served on the USS Sanctuary. First of all, thank you for your service. I have a very dear friend who served during the war with Iraq and she was a mechanic, and one of the most feminine women I know. Mr. Evans view of women, at least for me, is incomprehensible, not to mention offensive in the extreme.

Ms Stories idea of feminine women might not amount to much though might it.
Please tell me how wanting a women to be feminine is "offensive in the extreme". Please explain.

 

[Robert.Evans]

You would be wrong. My cousin and his husband have adopted two beautiful children and my cousin is the stay at home 'mom'. He is very nurturing and is a great parent.

Yuk!

 

[Robert.Evans]

Exactly Tom. I have never had an STD in my life and I, too, am gay. Mr. Evans views and opinions are hogwash.

The only view here that are hogwash, Ms Stories, come from two people who peddle their own wares.